NBA Bucket Draft : CHAT

[Nosferatu]

Milk is next, isn't he? I'm after him

He is being skipped per his request.

 

[UK Cowboy]

See the point but If Rodman grabs 17 rebounds that lead to 17 points and Gasol has 8 rebounds that leads to 8 points that makes up for him not scoring as much.

I don't think so. Again, these are super teams. Against the Bulls, who Rodman check? Pippen, Grant,MJ(lol). Against the Pistons? Dantley, Salley? Guys his size or bigger guys with a limited post game. His rebounding wouldn't play the same against teams with great centers and PF's.
Say he guards McAdoo, who is 2" taller.

McAdoo career 22.1ppg 9.4 rpg
Best 34.5 ppg 14.1 rpg

Rodman career 7.3 ppg 13.1 rpg
Best 9.8 ppg 18.7 rpg

4 rebounds a game more isn't enough. If he goes against Gasol, who is 5" taller and skilled, his rebounding edge wouldn't be there either

The argument for Rodman is the same one for Russell, but it doesn't work against great teams

 

[Nosferatu]

Rodman did not only guard small forwards.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Rodman did not only guard small forwards.

No he didn't, but he got destroyed when he tried to check ,6'10-7' with skill. We're not talking about Uwe Blab in the post or Bill Laibeer sitting 18' out. Every PF/C in this mock would light him up like a Christmas tree, and he'd be lucky to score

 

[Mebert]

The argument for Rodman is the same one for Russell, but it doesn't work against great teams

You hear this kind of argument a lot, yet players who are mostly about defense seem to always show up on championship teams.

 

[UK Cowboy]

You hear this kind of argument a lot, yet players who are mostly about defense seem to always show up on championship teams.

Absolutely, as complementary pieces. Look at their teams...Russell played with Cousey, Jones, Hondo..... Rodman with MJ and Pippen, before that, Zeke, Dumars, Laimbeer, Vinnie..... another, Michael Cooper had Magic, Kareem, etc. I'm not saying he sucked, but he'd have his team playing 4 on 5 on offense against these teams. Doesn't work in a mock IMO, 2 cents standard

 

[wlk3]

I don't think so. Again, these are super teams. Against the Bulls, who Rodman check? Pippen, Grant,MJ(lol). Against the Pistons? Dantley, Salley? Guys his size or bigger guys with a limited post game. His rebounding wouldn't play the same against teams with great centers and PF's.
Say he guards McAdoo, who is 2" taller.

McAdoo career 22.1ppg 9.4 rpg
Best 34.5 ppg 14.1 rpg

Rodman career 7.3 ppg 13.1 rpg
Best 9.8 ppg 18.7 rpg

4 rebounds a game more isn't enough. If he goes against Gasol, who is 5" taller and skilled, his rebounding edge wouldn't be there either

The argument for Rodman is the same one for Russell, but it doesn't work against great teams

I disagree here... IMO you can't throw out averages and say that's what they'd get vs a 2x Dpoy... Rodman had the ability to play different styles... Vs a brute like Malone he'd try to beat him to the spot and get the charge, vs jump shooters he'd be in their face all game long... Shooting goes down and it gets to be IMO "why go after Rodman when we can attack weaker defenders..."

 

[UK Cowboy]

I disagree here... IMO you can't throw out averages and say that's what they'd get vs a 2x Dpoy... Rodman had the ability to play different styles... Vs a brute like Malone he'd try to beat him to the spot and get the charge, vs jump shooters he'd be in their face all game long... Shooting goes down and it gets to be IMO "why go after Rodman when we can attack weaker defenders..."

That's on one end of the court...teams don't play worse when all the players are great, case in point is the Dream Team. You brought up Malone, another laughable matchup in this setting. What would Rodman realistically hold Malone to? With an INCREDIBLE effort, 17-18? Now go to the other end...4 on 5, the ability to play off Rodman and double the ball, foul him any time he touched it and let it clank off the rim, give him jumpers and dare him to shoot...these aren't normal teams, they aren't even simple great teams, they are squads that would squash the 80's Bulls

 

[MilkSpiller22]

That sucked!!! i get skipped by my own request, and then nos takes the player that i wanted to draft... the one i researched last night and planned on but then forgot about today...

Walt bellamy, i will miss ya..

 

[Nosferatu]

Honestly this is a discussion that goes both ways, sure Rodman was a non threat scoring but who cares you don't need 5 guys putting in 30. He gets offensive rebounds which gives the guys who are suppose to score more opportunity. On the defensive end I must have grown up near power lines because I don't remember everyone who had skill over 6'9 destroying him, I remember him being quicker than most those guys, getting to the spot first and getting in their head which lead to turnovers. Doesn't matter whos on the floor in a game that matters he is still pulling down 15 boards, that actually does help offset his inability to score.

How is a guy who scores 30 but plays zero D any better than Rodman?

I do understand the other side but I just don't think he's as big of a liability as some others do.

 

[Mebert]

That's on one end of the court...teams don't play worse when all the players are great, case in point is the Dream Team. You brought up Malone, another laughable matchup in this setting. What would Rodman realistically hold Malone to? With an INCREDIBLE effort, 17-18? Now go to the other end...4 on 5, the ability to play off Rodman and double the ball, foul him any time he touched it and let it clank off the rim, give him jumpers and dare him to shoot...these aren't normal teams, they aren't even simple great teams, they are squads that would squash the 80's Bulls

Using super teams like this your numbers are skewed already, people score less because everyone on the floor is a scorer. Malone in this example averaged 15 points a game for the dream team. Not because the defenders on him are stalwarts, but because everyone on that team averaged around 10-15 points.

So by these numbers let's say Rodman Keeps Malone to 4 points under his average and he gets 11, Rodman scores 4, the difference is 7 points, Rodman makes up for, or comes close to making up for that with the extra possessions he generates with his rebounding.

Even if you have the 5 best scorers of all time, they only get so many shots. Number of shot available is a large part of what turned Harden from a 6th man to a MVP candidate.

 

[UK Cowboy]

And what did the Dream Team beat people by? 30-40. Because everyone could score. Rodman had zero offense. Rodman wouldn't have to be guarded on the other end. Against these teams, he'd be a liability

 

[UK Cowboy]

Honestly this is a discussion that goes both ways, sure Rodman was a non threat scoring but who cares you don't need 5 guys putting in 30. He gets offensive rebounds which gives the guys who are suppose to score more opportunity. On the defensive end I must have grown up near power lines because I don't remember everyone who had skill over 6'9 destroying him, I remember him being quicker than most those guys, getting to the spot first and getting in their head which lead to turnovers. Doesn't matter whos on the floor in a game that matters he is still pulling down 15 boards, that actually does help offset his inability to score.

How is a guy who scores 30 but plays zero D any better than Rodman?

I do understand the other side but I just don't think he's as big of a liability as some others do.

Consider your Russell debate. Russell was 2",taller than Rodman. a better rebounder, defender and scorer than Rodman, but you admit he wouldn't be effective here. These are teams that would squash the 90's Bulls

I think all the Mock teams are virtually even, so I will use mine against that team

PG Jerry West vs BJ Armstrong....a joke
SG David Thompson vs MJ...Edge MJ, competitive
SF MA vs Pippen...Edge Pitten, but close
PF McAdoo vs Rodman... Diva lit up
C. KAJ vs Blab.....Kareem drops 50, Uwe drops 2

Bench

Westbrook vs Kerr....come on
Moses vs Wennington.. LOL

It would be like that for every team in this Mock, against one of the greatest teams in history. You can't have one dimensional players against these teams

 

[Nosferatu]

McAdoo would not lite up Rodman.

My main points about Russell are geared towards the fact people consider him one of the greatest of all time which hes not, nobody including me think or say that about Rodman.

Shouldn't we use Longley? lolzzz

So one dimensional players does that include score only guys?

 

[wildturkey]

All the Bucket 1s have been used so now I can say it...

How the fuck did no one pick Kevin McHale? He's only like one of the Top 5 PFs of all time and lots of players consider him the #1 PF. I was debating him and Barkley and ultimately went with Sir Charles but it baffles my mind that everyone else passed him over

 

[mr.hockey4242]

All the Bucket 1s have been used so now I can say it...

How the fuck did no one pick Kevin McHale? He's only like one of the Top 5 PFs of all time and lots of players consider him the #1 PF. I was debating him and Barkley and ultimately went with Sir Charles but it baffles my mind that everyone else passed him over

I wanted worthy or cowens bad.

Pierce was my back up. But id have went worthy before him.

 

[Mebert]

All the Bucket 1s have been used so now I can say it...

How the fuck did no one pick Kevin McHale? He's only like one of the Top 5 PFs of all time and lots of players consider him the #1 PF. I was debating him and Barkley and ultimately went with Sir Charles but it baffles my mind that everyone else passed him over

Needed a sf instead of a pf. Went Pierce over worthy because I needed 3 pt shooting. I went back and forth on that choice a bunch of times.

 

[broncosmitty]

No he didn't, but he got destroyed when he tried to check ,6'10-7' with skill. We're not talking about Uwe Blab in the post or Bill Laibeer sitting 18' out. Every PF/C in this mock would light him up like a Christmas tree, and he'd be lucky to score

Rodman is a defensive presence like no other in this draft.

He can alter the game of even the best PFs. (He and Malone head to head was awesome in real life. And he's the best PF ever, imo.)

 

[broncosmitty]

All the Bucket 1s have been used so now I can say it...

How the fuck did no one pick Kevin McHale? He's only like one of the Top 5 PFs of all time and lots of players consider him the #1 PF. I was debating him and Barkley and ultimately went with Sir Charles but it baffles my mind that everyone else passed him over

I took Shaq.

Off the top of my head:
MJ
Shaq
Kobe
Bird
West
Russell
Hondo

and that's just 2/3rds of the teams in the bucket.

Just so many greats in the 1.

 

[ehb5]

All the Bucket 1s have been used so now I can say it...

How the fuck did no one pick Kevin McHale? He's only like one of the Top 5 PFs of all time and lots of players consider him the #1 PF. I was debating him and Barkley and ultimately went with Sir Charles but it baffles my mind that everyone else passed him over

I don't think he's top 5. Dirk, KG, Duncan, Malone, Barkley are all better.