Name Change

[Ojb81]

How about the Washington Americans?

no thanks. that's about as nutless as the "houston texans"

 

[Ojb81]

How about the Washington Redcocks? ....eh?

I mean, there's a hockey team called the "Blackcocks", no?

 

[gkekoa]

That's easy. Any n all tribes the US broke a treaty or promise to.

I agree. Not when the nation who agreed to let you be a nation within a nation keeps pulling Manifest Destiny out their ass and pushing you further n further off said agreed upon nation.

Why is it that this ^^^^ argument only seems to ever pertain to a few select groups. If the Irish can be Irish American and the Italian, Italian American and the Polish, Polish American. Why can't the Indian be an American Indian? Also it wouldn't hurt if we actually treated them like Americans as well.

Its all good. I don't think you came off like an ass. Besides, you feel how you feel and one of the bigger problems with our country imo is that certain people haven't been able to say how they really feel. If we were able to do that w/o threat of repercussion. We might truly be able to come to an understanding. While maybe learning a little something about one another in the process.

Can we pick out a specific treaty and discuss it? I would like to see where my thoughts are wrong.

As for manifest destiny, is it a legal defense or just a belief? Didn’t the Sioux (Lakota) have their own version of manifest destiny when they took over the Black Hills? Isn’t manifest destiny just another word for conquest?

Honestly, I didn’t hear anything being put before American until African American became popularized. Some people used to be referred to as the Irish or Italians, but they were more descriptive, just like the term black. Usually it referred to a group. If you go up to a white dude and ask him what he is, very few put anything before American. How do we treat the American Indian differently?

 

[seattlefan75]

 

[Breed]

Can we pick out a specific treaty and discuss it? I would like to see where my thoughts are wrong.

did I say your thoughts were wrong? If so, my bad. As I said to dad. We're just conversating on a football board.

As for manifest destiny, is it a legal defense or just a belief? Didn’t the Sioux (Lakota) have their own version of manifest destiny when they took over the Black Hills? Isn’t manifest destiny just another word for conquest?

I'd opine its more of a illegal loophople, but I'd say it was both.

manifest destiny

Honestly, I didn’t hear anything being put before American until African American became popularized. Some people used to be referred to as the Irish or Italians, but they were more descriptive, just like the term black. Usually it referred to a group. If you go up to a white dude and ask him what he is, very few put anything before American. How do we treat the American Indian differently?

I think its more of a east coast thing than a west coast thing, but Italians especially seem pretty fond of using Italian American and I've heard more than a couple Irish cats use Irish American as well.

And imo language more than anything else is our biggest barrier. Are you a biblical believing person? If so, check what is said about the Tower of Babel. Back when all peoples on earth spoke one common language. Pretty interesting imo.

 

[skinsdad62]

So if someone else commits a sin against another person. That makes it alright for you to commit that same sin against the person who originally sinned?

I don't think that's how that's supposed to work.

no it doesnt make it right . what i am saying is you dont get to say "do as i say not as i do ". how can you blame someone for stealing "your " land when you stole it from someone else

it isnt about 2 wrongs equaling a right . its about pointing the finger at someone elses crime when you in fact are guilty of the same thing and condemning them while absolving yourself

 

[gkekoa]

did I say your thoughts were wrong? If so, my bad. As I said to dad. We're just conversating on a football board.

I'd opine its more of a illegal loophople, but I'd say it was both.

manifest destiny

I think its more of a east coast thing than a west coast thing, but Italians especially seem pretty fond of using Italian American and I've heard more than a couple Irish cats use Irish American as well.

And imo language more than anything else is our biggest barrier. Are you a biblical believing person? If so, check what is said about the Tower of Babel. Back when all peoples on earth spoke one common language. Pretty interesting imo.

I didn’t say you said I was wrong. If we have opposing views, then One has to be right and therefore the other is wrong. I want to know if I am wrong, so I can become right.

Let me put this another way. All treaties we make are subject to law. So, when these treaties are violated, they go through the court system and corrections and decisions are made. Has the idea of manifest destiny been used in defense? Aren’t all treaties also subject to being ratified and destroyed?

I guess it is an experience. I have never heard a single Italian-American refer to themselves as such. They have referred to themselves as Italian but they are referring to ancestry to explain their culture. An African American typically is not doing this.

I am and I know about Babel. I think it is very interesting and explains a lot. What do you mean language is the biggest barrier? How are American Indians, not treated as Americans?

 

[Breed]

I didn’t say you said I was wrong. If we have opposing views, then One has to be right and therefore the other is wrong. I want to know if I am wrong, so I can become right.

Let me put this another way. All treaties we make are subject to law. So, when these treaties are violated, they go through the court system and corrections and decisions are made. Has the idea of manifest destiny been used in defense? Aren’t all treaties also subject to being ratified and destroyed?

Manifest Destiny 101
The term manifest destiny, coined by newspaper editor John O’ Sullivan, is meant to describe the essence of the 19th century belief that the United States was destined to expand across North America, from the Atlantic coast to the Pacific Ocean. As a result of the belief in manifest density, much of American policy in the late 18th and 19th centuries was focused on rapid expansion and finding ways to annex more land. The annexation of states like Texas, Oregon, California and new-Mexico were a result of this belief in manifest westward expansion. Unfortunately this continental expansion had serious negative repercussions for Native Americans, since continental expansion required that Native American land would need to be occupied and annexed. As a result the US government developed a number of policies and treaties to remove Native Americans from their land as American expansion continued westward. The US adoption of the Removal Act of 1830 gave the President power to grant Native Americans land west of the Mississippi River in exchange for their homelands. With this policy in place the Jackson administration was free to persuade, bribe and threaten tribes into signing treaties relinquishing the claim to their native lands. In the instances where tribes made efforts to resisting signing the treaties, the US government would take military action and forcibly remove Native Americans from their homes.

The dogmatic American belief in the concept of manifest destiny led to the displacement of hundreds of thousands of Native Americans from their homes and onto reservations. Beyond that, belief in the idea of manifest destiny directly contributed to other adverse consequences for Native Americans like the US government continually breaking its treaties and the continuation

I guess it is an experience. I have never heard a single Italian-American refer to themselves as such. They have referred to themselves as Italian but they are referring to ancestry to explain their culture. An African American typically is not doing this.

Fair enough. Though The African American has went from N e g r o, to colored, to black to African American in a span of about 60 years.

I am and I know about Babel. I think it is very interesting and explains a lot. What do you mean language is the biggest barrier? How are American Indians, not treated as Americans?

Biggest barrier in general overall when looking from a world perspective.

 

[gkekoa]

Manifest Destiny 101
The term manifest destiny, coined by newspaper editor John O’ Sullivan, is meant to describe the essence of the 19th century belief that the United States was destined to expand across North America, from the Atlantic coast to the Pacific Ocean. As a result of the belief in manifest density, much of American policy in the late 18th and 19th centuries was focused on rapid expansion and finding ways to annex more land. The annexation of states like Texas, Oregon, California and new-Mexico were a result of this belief in manifest westward expansion. Unfortunately this continental expansion had serious negative repercussions for Native Americans, since continental expansion required that Native American land would need to be occupied and annexed. As a result the US government developed a number of policies and treaties to remove Native Americans from their land as American expansion continued westward. The US adoption of the Removal Act of 1830 gave the President power to grant Native Americans land west of the Mississippi River in exchange for their homelands. With this policy in place the Jackson administration was free to persuade, bribe and threaten tribes into signing treaties relinquishing the claim to their native lands. In the instances where tribes made efforts to resisting signing the treaties, the US government would take military action and forcibly remove Native Americans from their homes.

The dogmatic American belief in the concept of manifest destiny led to the displacement of hundreds of thousands of Native Americans from their homes and onto reservations. Beyond that, belief in the idea of manifest destiny directly contributed to other adverse consequences for Native Americans like the US government continually breaking its treaties and the continuation




Fair enough. Though The African American has went from N e g r o, to colored, to black to African American in a span of about 60 years.



Biggest barrier in general overall when looking from a world perspective.

So manifest destiny has never been used in a legal setting. This brings me back to my original question of who lands go to. Native Americans were not a nation. They were individual tribes. So why was it bad for the US to take the Black Hills from the Lakota, when the Lakota took the Black Hills from other tribes, and those tribe’s had taken the land from tribes, and those tribes took it from the previous tribe...etc. So which tribe gets a claim on the Black Hills and why them?

Yes...the winds change frequently when it comes to cultural description of black people. Most of which are not referencing a cultural relation to Africa but a racial one.

As for language, barrier to what. And how does this make Indians any less American?

 

[skinsdad62]

i will say this , the name change will probably mean 30-50 % of the fan base leaving no matter what you do .

even with the names i advocate , to some its an expansion team from an owner who is a proven failure

now redwolves , redhawks , red tails are swirling around social media . if its a total rebrand we need to get away from " red " anything . be the wolves or wolf pack , be the hawks and certainly forget about the JV red tails and stop trying to "honor " anyone

for the love of god stop trying not to OFFEND anyone . is the goal to not ever offend anyone or to name the stupid team

grab your balls and make a call . but if you had balls we wouldnt be caving in like bitches

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

 

[skinsdad62]

According to Reports - Washington to Have no Native American Imagery in New Re-Brand

i have seen reports both ways

 

[chillerdab]

[QUOTE="Breed, post: 15031747, member: 8712"
I'll just speak for myself and say. Since being made aware of where the term RedHawks comes by @chillerdab It has grown on me and I'm liking it more n more. It still won't feel the same as Redskins, but it is cool and it would be a damn sight better than Pentagons, Monuments or anything Washington-centric.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the shout out.

I like it as a suggestion certainly better than monuments, senators, congressmen, or sentinels, that’s for sure.

 

[chillerdab]

Disagree with the idea that changing the name is “caving in” and also “having no balls.”

completely disagree with that assertion.
That is all.

 

[IronJaw]

Well, I guess they could double up with the baseball team name and become the football Nationals. I remember when the football Cardinals were in St. Louis and shared the name with the much more popular baseball Cardinals (St. Louis has always been a great baseball city...they really didn't support the football Cardinals, or the Rams when they were there.

 

[Breed]

Thanks for the shout out.

I like it as a suggestion certainly better than monuments, senators, congressmen, or sentinels, that’s for sure.

You deserved it as I literally n legitimately learned something from you I was previously unaware of. I think a lotta folks are still are unaware. I like it better than Red Tails as well.

From wiki - On 16 September 2019, the USAF officially named the aircraft the "T-7A Red Hawk" as a tribute to the Tuskegee Airmen, who painted their airplanes' tails red, and to the Curtiss P-40 Warhawk, one of the aircraft flown by the Tuskegee Airmen.

This is a RedHawk

 

[countryroads316]

a new name going around is

Washington Redwolves

 

[Rowdy]

I’m still in the warriors camp or warpath, warhawks

 

[countryroads316]

 

[skinsdad62]

Disagree with the idea that changing the name is “caving in” and also “having no balls.”

completely disagree with that assertion.
That is all.

its a free country at least for now