My thoughts on the game/Alex Smith

[Crimsoncrew]

I wonder how much of this was due to the O Line not being familiar with each other... I know only Goodwin is new compared to the others but they are learning a new blocking scheme. Harbaugh and his staff have been experimenting on OL combinations...

Could be. There were definitely some miscommunications, but there were also several outright defensive wins.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Yes. I noticed Dal was aggressively cheating up on the LOS the whole game which clogged up the holes. Look how aggressive they were on the TD pass to Williams. They seemed only concerned with taking it to our O-line to put the pressure on, and doubling VD when he ran routes. WR's were mostly left 1 on 1, even with their secondary banged up.

Until the ball gets to the WRs consistently without the infamous sacks/t.o. blowups (regardless of QB/OL fault), it will be very difficult to run with all those bodies cheating up towards the line. Even with our success in the first half, they kept coming and it eventually panned out. Right now we're feeding the dog under the table once in awhile instead of all the time, but the dog's not going anywhere.

That was the impression I had. But rethinking it, I'm not sure. Their LBs were DEFINITELY cheating up big-time. But most of the times that they successfully pressured in teh second half were pretty basic four-man rushes.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

They can't seem to complete long passes and 170 yards of passing isn't going to keep opposing defenses honest.

We'll see how things progress.

Given that we only threw for 60 yards in the second half and OT, we threw the ball tolerably in the first half. 119 yards, produced 14 points without a ground game.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

For what it's worth, apparently Smith got a mild concussion during the game. Could have contributed to him scrambling on one or two plays when it looked like he had time to throw.

Oh, by the way, Alex Smith had concussion - NFC West Blog - ESPN

 

[sayheykid1]

Given that we only threw for 60 yards in the second half and OT, we threw the ball tolerably in the first half. 119 yards, produced 14 points without a ground game.

I am not sure how much the lack of a passing attack hurts the ground game but if the first half output of 119 yards is tolerable how bad is that second half?

 

[clyde_carbon]

That's not an accurate statement. JT got the starting reps in the '08 season, and Hill got them in the '09 season. Both guys were named the starters during the preseason and remained the starters until they were pulled.

Did JT get the starting reps in OTAs and training camp too? I don't recall that he did. And Hill was taking the majority of the snaps that pre-season because Alex Smith was still recovering from injury. Most of the time he was in a 49ers uniform he was taking backups reps. Regardless, does this really derail my point? The QBs VV listed are not exactly great benchmarks for Smith's pocket presence.

 

[deep9er]

I wonder how much of this was due to the O Line not being familiar with each other... I know only Goodwin is new compared to the others but they are learning a new blocking scheme. Harbaugh and his staff have been experimenting on OL combinations...

IMO about 75% of it, the other fourth being individual play.

while i don't expect this line to be "NFL elite", do expect they'll take two steps up. their POOR run blocking is more dissapointing than their inconsistent pass protection.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Thats's true, the run sets up the pass. But there are some teams that don't need the run to set up the pass. New England and Green Bay can pass without running well. Sure running helps but it is not necessary. We just need a QB that is in a system for a while. The main reason we have struggled on offense for so long is because we never stuck with the same guys. Some OC's were stolen away and some were horrible. Hopefully Harbaugh/Roman are the right guys for the future. We just gotta stick with them and find a QB and stick with him.

That's not necessarily true. Plenty of teams use the pass to set up the run - Packers, Saints, Pats, Chargers, Manning's Colts, even upcoming teams like the Lions and Texans.

 

[deep9er]

Thats's true, the run sets up the pass. But there are some teams that don't need the run to set up the pass. New England and Green Bay can pass without running well. Sure running helps but it is not necessary. We just need a QB that is in a system for a while. The main reason we have struggled on offense for so long is because we never stuck with the same guys. Some OC's were stolen away and some were horrible. Hopefully Harbaugh/Roman are the right guys for the future. We just gotta stick with them and find a QB and stick with him.

totally agree.

prefer they establish the system - both sides - they envision, and look forward. tweak and adjust ok, but not so much you move away from your basic philosophy.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I am not sure how much the lack of a passing attack hurts the ground game but if the first half output of 119 yards is tolerable how bad is that second half?

Miserable. 35 yards in the third quarter I think, and 29 of that was the Walker TD. Something like 15 yards in the 4th and 12 in OT. But compare that with the production in the run game.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Did JT get the starting reps in OTAs and training camp too? I don't recall that he did. And Hill was taking the majority of the snaps that pre-season because Alex Smith was still recovering from injury. Most of the time he was in a 49ers uniform he was taking backups reps. Regardless, does this really derail my point? The QBs VV listed are not exactly great benchmarks for Smith's pocket presence.

With JT, there was initially a three-man rotation. Hill was out of that within a week, and Smith within two or three. JT was effectively getting all the starting reps from the start of the preseason on.

Those QBs aren't any kind of benchmark, and the fact that they did get starting reps doesn't change it. But that's the point. You don't need to misstate the facts because the actual facts still support you, but you've been doing it anyway this week and then when you're called out on it, it doesn't matter. Personally, I think getting the facts right always matters.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

That's not necessarily true. Plenty of teams use the pass to set up the run - Packers, Saints, Pats, Chargers, Manning's Colts, even upcoming teams like the Lions and Texans.

Yep. We can include Bill Walsh's early 49er teams in that group as well; especially the '81 Super Bowl team.

 

[clyde_carbon]

With JT, there was initially a three-man rotation. Hill was out of that within a week, and Smith within two or three. JT was effectively getting all the starting reps from the start of the preseason on.

Those QBs aren't any kind of benchmark, and the fact that they did get starting reps doesn't change it. But that's the point. You don't need to misstate the facts because the actual facts still support you, but you've been doing it anyway this week and then when you're called out on it, it doesn't matter. Personally, I think getting the facts right always matters.

Half the time I'm posting from my phone, so I'm not gonna bother look up small details that really won't change the argument one way or the other. My point was that over the last seven years Smith has take the majority of snaps in all the OTS, training camps, and during the seasons, so naturally he's going to be more comfortable with the blocking schemes and hot reads than the backups. Combine that with the fact that all of the QBs ViperVisor listed were bad QBs, and his argument is just ludicrous.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Yep. We can include Bill Walsh's early 49er teams in that group as well; especially the '81 Super Bowl team.

Absolutely. That's especially true today though, where in many cases running the ball has taken a back seat to passing. That's why pure RBs are becoming less and less valuable in the draft.

 

[Jtymer49er]

That's not necessarily true. Plenty of teams use the pass to set up the run - Packers, Saints, Pats, Chargers, Manning's Colts, even upcoming teams like the Lions and Texans.

That's what I said. I said that the good offensive teams like New England and Green Bay don't run to set up the pass. I also said that running is not necessary. You are pretty much saying that you are agreeing with me and citing other examples of teams that don't need the run to set up the pass? Correct? What's not true about that?

 

[clyde_carbon]

That's what I said. I said that the good offensive teams like New England and Green Bay don't run to set up the pass. I also said that running is not necessary. You are pretty much saying that you are agreeing with me and citing other examples of teams that don't need the run to set up the pass? Correct? What's not true about that?

Yes I was agreeing with you. My response was in general, not specifically to you.

 

[deep9er]

That's what I said. I said that the good offensive teams like New England and Green Bay don't run to set up the pass. I also said that running is not necessary. You are pretty much saying that you are agreeing with me and citing other examples of teams that don't need the run to set up the pass? Correct? What's not true about that?

won't argue the football trend is passing and IF we had a good offense like these teams, yeah do it. but obviously we don't, so if fans are expecting Harbaugh to call passing plays like these teams.................what are the expected results?

if you ask this current O-line to protect on 5 and 7 seven step drops, and ask Alex to throw - with timing - 15 to 20 yards downfield, what are the expected results?

i'll have to disagree that running isn't necessary. yes you don't need the best NFL rushing attack, but its necessary more so in the play-offs (including SB).

 

[Jtymer49er]

Yes I was agreeing with you. My response was in general, not specifically to you.

Ok, it's just hard to tell sometimes online.

 

[Jtymer49er]

won't argue the football trend is passing and IF we had a good offense like these teams, yeah do it. but obviously we don't, so if fans are expecting Harbaugh to call passing plays like these teams.................what are the expected results?

if you ask this current O-line to protect on 5 and 7 seven step drops, and ask Alex to throw - with timing - 15 to 20 yards downfield, what are the expected results?

i'll have to disagree that running isn't necessary. yes you don't need the best NFL rushing attack, but its necessary more so in the play-offs (including SB).

Yeah, i agree running is necessary. I over exaggerated. I just meant that those high flying offenses usually can pass well even if the run is not working. But you're right especially in the playoffs.

 

[deep9er]

Yeah, i agree running is necessary. I over exaggerated. I just meant that those high flying offenses usually can pass well even if the run is not working. But you're right especially in the playoffs.

ok, gotch ya.

yeah, it certainly SEEMS that way especially how Brady is making it look easy? we all hope to reach that point too, but for now Harbaugh has to adjust to what he has.