MVP snubs/he finished where?!

[ImSmartherThanYou]

to be fair, voting takes place before the playoffs, so the fact that pujols' team made the playoffs and eventually won the world series doesn't factor in the equation. also, if you want to talk about each player's teams, the phils had more wins than the cardinals did that year. they were just in a division where the mets had 97 wins, and the cardinals were in a division where the second place team had 82 wins. i still think howard's year was better than utley's, but i agree that pujols should have won the nl mvp

Seriously? Voters have until the first game of the playoffs to submit their ballot. Most wait until the playoff picture is settled to make their vote. Whether a player's team makes the playoffs is very, very often a factor. I never said anything about what happened in the playoffs, just that one made the playoffs and the other didn't. If you don't think that factors into the vote, look no further than the 2011 NL MVP race, or even the 2012 AL MVP race to a lesser extent. Most voters don't cast their ballot until the playoff teams have been decided.

I normally don't care much about the playoff element, and I agree that the Phillies were obviously better in a tougher division than the Cardinals, but Pujols basically single-handedly carried the Cardinals that year, which made their playoff appearance that much more of a factor to him deserving the MVP (on top of the fact that he was, ya know, better).

 

[soxfan1468927]

to be fair, voting takes place before the playoffs, so the fact that pujols' team made the playoffs and eventually won the world series doesn't factor in the equation. also, if you want to talk about each player's teams, the phils had more wins than the cardinals did that year. they were just in a division where the mets had 97 wins, and the cardinals were in a division where the second place team had 82 wins. i still think howard's year was better than utley's, but i agree that pujols should have won the nl mvp

The voting takes place after the regular season though, so whether or not a team makes the playoffs does actually factor in to the voting. Whether or not the team made the World Series or not, however, doesn't factor in. The Phillies did end up winning 2 more games than the Cardinals that year, but missed the playoffs. The same thing happened last year and the writers claimed they voted for Cabrera largely because the Tigers made the playoffs while Trout and the Angels did not. However the Angels won one more game than the Tigers but were simply in a tougher division. It just points the hypocrisy of the BBWAA

 

[Omar 382]

to me, the playoffs should not have a very big impact on who/who doesn't win an mvp. that's more of a reflection on the team than the individual player. as for mvp snubs (i'm sure some have already been mentioned)
andre dawson 1987 (i would have voted for tony gwynn)
steve garvey 1974 (i would have voted for mike schmidt)
Roger Peckinpaugh 1925 (i would have voted for al simmons)
and countless others that i'm forgetting

 

[Omar 382]

i'm pretty sure maury wills won an mvp one year because of all of his stolen bases. i remember thinking that it was ridiculous. i can't remember the year, or who i would have voted for, but i doubt he deserved it

 

[navamind]

i'm pretty sure maury wills won an mvp one year because of all of his stolen bases. i remember thinking that it was ridiculous. i can't remember the year, or who i would have voted for, but i doubt he deserved it

He won the NL MVP in '62 when he stole 104 bases. But even when you account for position, Mays/Robinson/Aaron blow him away IMO.

1962 Awards Voting - Baseball-Reference.com

 

[Omar 382]

He won the NL MVP in '62 when he stole 104 bases. But even when you account for position, Mays/Robinson/Aaron blow him away IMO.

1962 Awards Voting - Baseball-Reference.com

Yeah, mays or robinson should have definitely won the award that year (i would go with mays). just another example of the writers being corrupted by one statistic.

 

[Omar 382]

Seriously? Voters have until the first game of the playoffs to submit their ballot. Most wait until the playoff picture is settled to make their vote. Whether a player's team makes the playoffs is very, very often a factor. I never said anything about what happened in the playoffs, just that one made the playoffs and the other didn't. If you don't think that factors into the vote, look no further than the 2011 NL MVP race, or even the 2012 AL MVP race to a lesser extent. Most voters don't cast their ballot until the playoff teams have been decided.

I normally don't care much about the playoff element, and I agree that the Phillies were obviously better in a tougher division than the Cardinals, but Pujols basically single-handedly carried the Cardinals that year, which made their playoff appearance that much more of a factor to him deserving the MVP (on top of the fact that he was, ya know, better).

Wow, I feel stupid. I always had heard that voters voted before the playoffs, but I never put 2 and 2 together and realized that the regular season does factor into the decision. well, you learn something new everyday, I guess.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

to me, the playoffs should not have a very big impact on who/who doesn't win an mvp. that's more of a reflection on the team than the individual player. as for mvp snubs (i'm sure some have already been mentioned)
andre dawson 1987 (i would have voted for tony gwynn)
steve garvey 1974 (i would have voted for mike schmidt)
Roger Peckinpaugh 1925 (i would have voted for al simmons)
and countless others that i'm forgetting

I don't disagree. I only think it should come into play when you have two or three players who are otherwise extremely close.

 

[navamind]

'93 AL CYA is pretty bad.

1993 American League Pitching Leaders - Baseball-Reference.com

Appier should have won. Johnson, Key and Langston (who didn't get any votes) were also much better pitchers than McDowell that year.

Appier was a great pitcher until the shoulder injury. Not sure if he should be in Cooperstown, but I think he deserved a lot more consideration than he did.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

'93 AL CYA is pretty bad.

1993 American League Pitching Leaders - Baseball-Reference.com

Appier should have won. Johnson, Key and Langston (who didn't get any votes) were also much better pitchers than McDowell that year.

Appier was a great pitcher until the shoulder injury. Not sure if he should be in Cooperstown, but I think he deserved a lot more consideration than he did.

Yeah, that was pretty bad. You also forgot Alex Fernandez, Danny Darwin, Ben McDonald and Chuck Finley. They were all better than McDowell.

And I agree about Appier. He's one of the most underrated pitchers of all-time. Clearly not a HOFer, but I'm sure voters just skipped over his name entirely and didn't even consider him for one second. He's actually better than quite a few pitchers in the Hall, but I don't believe that's an argument that he should be one.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Yeah, that was pretty bad.

And I agree about Appier. He's one of the most underrated pitchers of all-time. Clearly not a HOFer, but I'm sure voters just skipped over his name entirely and didn't even consider him for one second. He's actually better than quite a few pitchers in the Hall, but I don't believe that's an argument that he should be one.

It would be interesting to make a team of the all-time HOF one and dones. Kevin Brown comes to mind.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

It would be interesting to make a team of the all-time HOF one and dones. Kevin Brown comes to mind.

Damn you. You've now given me something to do for the rest of the day.

The biggest atrocity among the one-and-done crowd is Lou Whitaker, who should easily be in the Hall.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I only went back to 1980, since the balloting and eligibility procedures were different before then. This is what I have.

C - Ted Simmons, Bill Freehan, Lance Parrish
1B - John Olerud, Norm Cash, Will Clark
2B - Bobby Grich, Lou Whitaker, Willie Randolph
3B - Sal Bando, Darrell Evans, Robin Ventura
SS - Tony Fernandez, Bert Campaneris
LF - Kirk Gibson, Ken Singleton, Jose Cruz
CF - Kenny Lofton, Chet Lemon, Cesar Cedeno
RF - Reggie Smith, David Justice, Paul O'Neill
SP - David Cone, Dave Steib, Kevin Appier, Kevin Brown, Bret Saberhagen, Dennis Martinez, Frank Tanana
RP - Dan Quisenberry, Robb Nen, Jesse Orosco, John Wetteland

All off the ballot after one year.

 

[soxfan1468927]

I only went back to 1980, since the balloting and eligibility procedures were different before then. This is what I have.

C - Ted Simmons, Bill Freehan, Lance Parrish
1B - John Olerud, Norm Cash, Will Clark
2B - Bobby Grich, Lou Whitaker, Willie Randolph
3B - Sal Bando, Darrell Evans, Robin Ventura
SS - Tony Fernandez, Bert Campaneris
LF - Kirk Gibson, Ken Singleton, Jose Cruz
CF - Kenny Lofton, Chet Lemon, Cesar Cedeno
RF - Reggie Smith, David Justice, Paul O'Neill
SP - David Cone, Dave Steib, Kevin Appier, Kevin Brown, Bret Saberhagen, Dennis Martinez, Frank Tanana
RP - Dan Quisenberry, Robb Nen, Jesse Orosco, John Wetteland

All off the ballot after one year.

The only two guys I had on my list that I don't see on yours are Buddy Bell (1995) and Rick Reuschel (1997)

 

[Omar 382]

belle is damn close to making this list. he received only 7.7% of the ballot in his first year, and he was off of it in his next year

 

[navamind]

Gene Tenace and Brian Downing were one-and-dones as well.

 

[DragonfromTO]

I'll also add a few:

Cochrane over Gehrig in 1934
Eckersley over quite a few guys in 1992 including Clemens, Thomas, Puckett
Baylor in 1979 over Brett/Lynn
Hernandez over Eddie Murray/Mattingly and Ripken finished 26th with ONE 10th place vote???
Gooden was snubbed in 1985. McGee wasn't an atrocious choice but Gooden should have won.

For Cy Young:

Clemens should have won in 1990 and 1992 over Welch and Eck
Niekro should have won over Perry in 1978
Prior should have beaten out Gagne in 2003
Santana finishing 3rd in 2005

Darrell Porter deserved better that year too, I'm not so sure that he wouldn't have gotten my vote.

 

[JR Hart]

Gene Tenace and Brian Downing were one-and-dones as well.

Tenace deserves to be one and done. When they declassified Pluto, they changed it's name to Tenace so that the planet's distance from the sun would correlate with Tenace' s distance from the HOF.

 

[da55bums]

Was looking at the late 60's and early 70's, Yaz in 1968 finished 9th? Danny McLain received every 1st place vote which wasn't a terrible selection, (looking up McLain's career is an interesting to view btw) but shocked Yastrzemski didn't receive any first place votes, and even more shocked somehow he finished 9th?

1970, you would think his 40 HRs and .329 BA would have looked like gold and his league leading 125 runs. He also led the league in OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+, and Total Bases.

Players you think should have won, or should of finished a lot higher or lower?

Just like Miggy should have finished 2nd...that triple crown thingy is worthless...