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MVP candidates

j_y19

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Sty, I'm glad to see you finally came around! He is now an average QB! It just seems a few short months ago when you said he was a backup level only. I am curious, tho, what passes can't he make?
 

Stymietee

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I'll own it. I have been a Cousins homer. You win the Forrest Gump award "stupid is, as ...." You proclaimed him a loser and a career backup earlier in the year. He is the 7th rated QB in the league, using QB rating. It does you promoted him to average. I am sticking with what I said before game 1. Give the guy a chance. one season does not a successful QB career but he took a big step this year. Apparently most around the league feel the same way.

I was interested in another thread where you said he has not proved he can throw every pass in the NFL .... which ones didn't he throw? Behind his back and between his legs? :lol:

Clearly we don't see eye to eye on this subject. Home signing out Forrest. I do have a couple of years in football or maybe a quarter century. Clearly you have been mostly wrong so far but other than the couple of passes I just mentioned tell me what he can't do. Tell Trent Williams and the rest of his teammates too. Maybe you haven't been reading what they said.

Until the Buffalo game that back shoulder fade, he still doesn't throw the out, last one ended up being a pick six in OT, are comeback routes even in the playbook? Maybe they say things in public that's different in private. I'm mostly wrong iyo because you conflate things that people write, purposely misread them, or use the dreaded "in other words" which then gives you licence to argue a point not made in the original post.
From the beginning most here have said, "give him a full year" well, here we are and the debate still goes on. What can I tell you, at least I've taken a position, and backed them up with reasonable observations. Unlike some I don't hide behind some elusive target like.....giving him a few more games, a whole year, or the forgettable, (at this point) next year. There is no doubt that he can and has started games in the NFL, that is a false premise upon which the ultimate question is,.....Is he the type of guy that, when all of the pieces are in place, elevates their play on the field? I believe that I've answered that question, guess very few here want to give an evaluation based on their own criteria.
 

Stymietee

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Sty, I'm glad to see you finally came around! He is now an average QB! It just seems a few short months ago when you said he was a backup level only. I am curious, tho, what passes can't he make?

Never said he couldn't, just until recently he hasn't. Listed a few in my response to @Sportster. BTW: average while it is an improvement is no ringing endorsement for the guy that I still say has a long career ahead but most likely as one damned good backup.
 

Sportster 72

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Until the Buffalo game that back shoulder fade, he still doesn't throw the out, last one ended up being a pick six in OT, are comeback routes even in the playbook? Maybe they say things in public that's different in private. I'm mostly wrong iyo because you conflate things that people write, purposely misread them, or use the dreaded "in other words" which then gives you licence to argue a point not made in the original post.
From the beginning most here have said, "give him a full year" well, here we are and the debate still goes on. What can I tell you, at least I've taken a position, and backed them up with reasonable observations. Unlike some I don't hide behind some elusive target like.....giving him a few more games, a whole year, or the forgettable, (at this point) next year. There is no doubt that he can and has started games in the NFL, that is a false premise upon which the ultimate question is,.....Is he the type of guy that, when all of the pieces are in place, elevates their play on the field? I believe that I've answered that question, guess very few here want to give an evaluation based on their own criteria.

If you haven't seen an out since the Atlanta game I can't help you understand what one looks like. Still whining about that pick? He has 20 TDs and 3 INTs since then, one of the highest QB ratings in the entire league since that point. Has set numerous single season records for the Redskins. Who is hiding behind an elusive target. I got facts. He has thrown the back shoulder fade, probably not in your desired timeline but then too you thought he was a career backup.

I find it odd that you don't understand the concept of learning through experience. Ever go to McDonalds when there was a new person behind the counter? Would you rather be waited on by that person on the one that has been there three years? I am fairly certain you can apply this analogy to any line of work.

I am not hiding anything. He is light years ahead of where you said he could be.

Really must suck to see the team making progress and not enjoying because you don't like one player. His coach likes him, his teammates like him. He is getting praise around the league. Sorry "you don't like that."

I heard Trent Williams say on several occasions we aren't in the playoffs without Cousins. But I am sure you know more than him too. :trash:

As I said clearly we aren't going to see the same thing. Hell you are still looking for an out pass that has been thrown a number of times.
 

Stymietee

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If you haven't seen an out since the Atlanta game I can't help you understand what one looks like. Still whining about that pick? He has 20 TDs and 3 INTs since then, one of the highest QB ratings in the entire league since that point. Has set numerous single season records for the Redskins. Who is hiding behind an elusive target. I got facts. He has thrown the back shoulder fade, probably not in your desired timeline but then too you thought he was a career backup.

I find it odd that you don't understand the concept of learning through experience. Ever go to McDonalds when there was a new person behind the counter? Would you rather be waited on by that person on the one that has been there three years? I am fairly certain you can apply this analogy to any line of work.

I am not hiding anything. He is light years ahead of where you said he could be.

Really must suck to see the team making progress and not enjoying because you don't like one player. His coach likes him, his teammates like him. He is getting praise around the league. Sorry "you don't like that."

I heard Trent Williams say on several occasions we aren't in the playoffs without Cousins. But I am sure you know more than him too. :trash:

As I said clearly we aren't going to see the same thing. Hell you are still looking for an out pass that has been thrown a number of times.

Wow, it took several times for me to convince myself what I'm dealing with when posting back and forth with you.....so whateva man, we see things differently, big whoop! Good luck to you!
 

Breed

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Unless I totally missed it, the ONLY place that he has League MVP value is here. The comparision is....neither do they.

Valid point on Cuz's league MVP value and I believe that was acknowledged by everyone sans the OP who's posted in this thread including myself. You just took it to an unnecessary level by comparing KC to two guys who have what? A total of 10 starts between them this year. KC might not deserve much or any league MVP consideration, but he shouldn't be lumped in with Osweiller and McCarron either.
 

Stymietee

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Valid point on Cuz's league MVP value and I believe that was acknowledged by everyone sans the OP who's posted in this thread including myself. You just took it to an unnecessary level by comparing KC to two guys who have what? A total of 10 starts between them this year. KC might not deserve much or any league MVP consideration, but he shouldn't be lumped in with Osweiller and McCarron either.

In the event that anyone wants to feel that it was a slight to KC, I just wanted to pick two average QB's that also didn't deserve any League Wide MVP considerations, they were the first two that came to mind. I don't really care about all of the statistical BS for this topic, to me average is .....well......average.
 

Sportster 72

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I don't watch as much NFL football as I did years ago because I spend so much time with my nephews and their teams.

I understand your point j_y and I think Cousins has been very important to the Redskins. So has Jordan Reed. Both stick out in my mind. NaVorro Bowman has been valuable to the 49ers. We could name other guys equally valuable to their team.

If I had a vote I believe I would cast it for Cam Newton. Funny thing is his statistics are very close to Cousins. He is on a better overall team but 14-1 just says a lot more than 8-7. I have always struggled with this award. As you say j_y where would Redskins be without Cousins. If it came down to answering a question like that then Brady would be my choice because his offense has really been decimated. Cousins was best when he got DJax and Reed back so they are quite valuable to the team also.

I mentioned Trent Williams earlier, in at least two interviews Philly game saying the Redskins wouldn't be in the playoffs without Cousins. Clearly he is valuable to his teammates. My hope is that he continues to get better, the Redskins continue to be in contention and get better and we can ask this question every year for the next 6 or 7 years.
 

j_y19

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I don't watch as much NFL football as I did years ago because I spend so much time with my nephews and their teams.

I understand your point j_y and I think Cousins has been very important to the Redskins. So has Jordan Reed. Both stick out in my mind. NaVorro Bowman has been valuable to the 49ers. We could name other guys equally valuable to their team.

If I had a vote I believe I would cast it for Cam Newton. Funny thing is his statistics are very close to Cousins. He is on a better overall team but 14-1 just says a lot more than 8-7. I have always struggled with this award. As you say j_y where would Redskins be without Cousins. If it came down to answering a question like that then Brady would be my choice because his offense has really been decimated. Cousins was best when he got DJax and Reed back so they are quite valuable to the team also.

I mentioned Trent Williams earlier, in at least two interviews Philly game saying the Redskins wouldn't be in the playoffs without Cousins. Clearly he is valuable to his teammates. My hope is that he continues to get better, the Redskins continue to be in contention and get better and we can ask this question every year for the next 6 or 7 years.
This was the point of my original post. The MVP has turned into the most talented player award. In this definition, I clearly see how Cam could, and probably should, win. This is different that the Most valuable player (to his team's success) award. IF one truly evaluates it, KC deserves mention. Think about how he moved this offense and produced without a running game and without a stout defense. Cam, while clearly talented, had a very productive running game and a very good defense. Do I think KC should win the award? No, I don't. Because he hasn't put together a full season's worth of stellar play. Cam, Wilson, Brady and Palmer have. But I still think that what he did produce with his supporting cast has been remarkable. This doesn't mean I think he will do this year in and year out. We need to see if this is a blip or something he can build on and become a true franchise QB. I honestly can't tell at this point. But to call him a backup level player is laughable and I won't even bother to address it. The poster who believes that clearly has issues with giving KC true credit. One can only speculate why that is.
 

gkekoa

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Cam Newton is the MVP this season and it isn't close. He is close to KC is passing stats but add in the running and that gap changes. Also, who is Cam throwing to? His number one has been missing all season. We saw what KC was doing without his number one.
 

Breed

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This was the point of my original post. The MVP has turned into the most talented player award. In this definition, I clearly see how Cam could, and probably should, win. This is different that the Most valuable player (to his team's success) award. IF one truly evaluates it, KC deserves mention. Think about how he moved this offense and produced without a running game and without a stout defense. Cam, while clearly talented, had a very productive running game and a very good defense. Do I think KC should win the award? No, I don't. Because he hasn't put together a full season's worth of stellar play. Cam, Wilson, Brady and Palmer have. But I still think that what he did produce with his supporting cast has been remarkable. This doesn't mean I think he will do this year in and year out. We need to see if this is a blip or something he can build on and become a true franchise QB. I honestly can't tell at this point. But to call him a backup level player is laughable and I won't even bother to address it. The poster who believes that clearly has issues with giving KC true credit. One can only speculate why that is.

I think the MVP has turned into the best QB award personally. QBs becoming the most important position on the field by an almost ridiculous gap is what the NFL powers that be wanted though.

We'll see if that's what they want in another 10 years as big time college ball continues to play a game that''s not conducive to how the NFL game is played.
 

Sportster 72

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I think the MVP has turned into the best QB award personally. QBs becoming the most important position on the field by an almost ridiculous gap is what the NFL powers that be wanted though.

We'll see if that's what they want in another 10 years as big time college ball continues to play a game that''s not conducive to how the NFL game is played.

That is a key statement. Not only is big time college ball using the spread but so is DII. Both of my nephews teams
run the spread. No huddle, 4 WRs etc. etc. These kids in school are not learning any of the traits desired in the NFL. It is easier for college coaches to find QBs who read half the field and run a limited amount of plays. As you know the kids don't even call the plays. They go to the line, the QB turns to the sideline and reads the signal once the coach sees the D line up.

Getting a good QB has always been a crap shoot. Maybe more so now that most schools are running the spread. Maybe it isn't so different other than in style from when I was young and most colleges were running the triple option. :noidea:
 

Breed

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I don't know as I haven't seen a high school game in a while, but I hear a lot of high schools are also running the spread offense now,
 

Sportster 72

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True Breed, it is used more and more in HS also. We did not run the spread but we were seeing more and more teams using it.
 

Stymietee

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Hmmmmm, makes you wonder, what will NFL teams do to convert the ever growing number of guys running spread offenses who become draft eligible?
 
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