Mozgov to the Cavs

[TurnUpTheHeat]

ohh geez....we do not need to get into who's state is better than who's argument....

I am fairly surprised Arison was so butt-hurt to post something like that though- the guy has billions of dollars...at least Dan went after the player instead of the entire state of Florida. All though you cannot blame LeBron for wanting to raise his family in Ohio rather than Florida.

So..lets get this straight..

Arison re tweets a couple
factual poll results vs Gilbert personally attacking James..., but Arison is the butt hurt one?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

it is just such a false narrative that LeBron "runs" the franchise. Anyone that actually pays attention knows that the front office has solicited LeBron's assistance in recruitment, coaching etc.- and LeBron really does not want anything to do with it. Jason Lloyd and Brian Windhorst repeat this ALL the time- but as the saying goes- never let the facts get in the way of a good story. This summer was really the first time LeBron ever stuck his nose in at all- and that was to get 2 guys who arent major players in Miller and Jones.

Talk all the nonsense you want.
If James didn't DEMAND the Love trade to be made, Gilbert never even considers it.
Nobody trades a highly touted #1 rookie salary player
in that situation.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Talk all the nonsense you want.
If James didn't DEMAND the Love trade to be made, Gilbert never even considers it.
Nobody trades a highly touted #1 rookie salary player
in that situation.

please try and be logical- I laid out the reasons for the trade yesterday and Mr Hockey- as any logical person would do without an agenda said "I agree with really everything you said in your posts, but a couple things to add."

its under the Wiggins thread----

the reasoning is the same as yesterday

1. LeBron James is 30 years old. Even though he is still dominate and likely the best player in the NBA- no one would be foolish enough to say he is the athlete he was at 24. If you draft Wiggins the soonest he is ready to really be a big time contributor and all star is 2-3 years down the line. if EVER.

2. To say that there is any guarantee that Wiggins would become a high level all star like Kevin Love is complete and utter insanity. There have been truckloads of highly touted talent- and many #1 picks that have failed to ever make an all star team- let alone All NBA teams

3. Love is in his prime and ready to contribute right away. Wiggins was drafted at 19 years old- and while Love at 25 at the time of the trade still has plenty prime left- Wiggins would not even be entering his prime until lebron was in his mid thirties

for you to make that remark is truly stupid- and for the most part you dont make stupid remarks.

 

[WiggyRuss]

So..lets get this straight..

Arison re tweets a couple
factual poll results vs Gilbert personally attacking James..., but Arison is the butt hurt one?

ohh no doubt Gilbert was absolutely bitter as hell- i never denied that- but at least Gilbert went after the responsible party in LeBron- Arison instead of going after LeBron went was passive aggressive against the state...maybe because LeBron rejected Miami for Ohio....who knows....but its clear- both Arison and Gilbert lost millions upon millions upon millions when LeBron left- and they lost having their franchise be the center piece of the league- the team everyone talksabout- which might just be more important for guys with all that money.

Gilbert didnt rip on Miami and say how they have what is regarded as one of the least passionate fan bases in pro sports which he could have done- he had the balls to at least call out LeBron- which Arison did not have.

 

[WiggyRuss]

my real guess is that Arison's ego let him think his team wouldnt have a fall off that was quite so drastic. Reality is sinking in finally for him and he was not very happy about it.

(sounds like someone elses problem around here too )

 

[Leking2246]

Gilbert is alpha self made

Micky airison inherited from mommmy and daddy and his cruise line carnival is a joke

Side not mazgov looks good blocks rebounds and points playing gasol very well

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

my real guess is that Arison's ego let him think his team wouldnt have a fall off that was quite so drastic. Reality is sinking in finally for him and he was not very happy about it.

(sounds like someone elses problem around here too )

So, Arison lost James, was held basically hostage by James during FA, and didn't think there would be a drastic fall off?

No wonder Trojan banned you.
You need to filter yourself a bit.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

please try and be logical- I laid out the reasons for the trade yesterday and Mr Hockey- as any logical person would do without an agenda said "I agree with really everything you said in your posts, but a couple things to add."

its under the Wiggins thread----

the reasoning is the same as yesterday

1. LeBron James is 30 years old. Even though he is still dominate and likely the best player in the NBA- no one would be foolish enough to say he is the athlete he was at 24. If you draft Wiggins the soonest he is ready to really be a big time contributor and all star is 2-3 years down the line. if EVER.

2. To say that there is any guarantee that Wiggins would become a high level all star like Kevin Love is complete and utter insanity. There have been truckloads of highly touted talent- and many #1 picks that have failed to ever make an all star team- let alone All NBA teams

3. Love is in his prime and ready to contribute right away. Wiggins was drafted at 19 years old- and while Love at 25 at the time of the trade still has plenty prime left- Wiggins would not even be entering his prime until lebron was in his mid thirties

for you to make that remark is truly stupid- and for the most part you dont make stupid remarks.

Save your novel.
The original incorrect point made by you, was that James is not the decision maker.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that you believe that Wiggins wouldn't be on this roster if James was under contract for multiple years with no opt outs?

You keep forgetting/ignoring the fact that Love could have went there next season for NOTHING if he wanted to.
And, since you say there is no expectations to win this year anyway ( ), wouldn't that have been the prudent move?

 

[Leking2246]

Still laughing at that trade now

And shump hasn't even played yet

 

[OutlawImmortal]

I'm sure a guy named 'leking' looks at things completely objectively lol.

 

[gordontrue]

it is just such a false narrative that LeBron "runs" the franchise. Anyone that actually pays attention knows that the front office has solicited LeBron's assistance in recruitment, coaching etc.- and LeBron really does not want anything to do with it. Jason Lloyd and Brian Windhorst repeat this ALL the time- but as the saying goes- never let the facts get in the way of a good story. This summer was really the first time LeBron ever stuck his nose in at all- and that was to get 2 guys who arent major players in Miller and Jones.

 

[gordontrue]

You keep forgetting/ignoring the fact that Love could have went there next season for NOTHING if he wanted to.
And, since you say there is no expectations to win this year anyway ( ), wouldn't that have been the prudent move?

Larry Bird Rights.

Saying Love could have gone there for nothing next year is a bit of a pipe dream, IMO.

Keeping a max-player on your team with Larry Bird Rights is way easier and gives you way more flexibility than trying to sign a max player from another team.

From Love's side he'd be giving up money doing it that way. From the Cavs side... they'd have to clear true cap room for him, whereas now they can go over the cap to sign him.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Larry Bird Rights.

Saying Love could have gone there for nothing next year is a bit of a pipe dream, IMO.

Keeping a max-player on your team with Larry Bird Rights is way easier and gives you way more flexibility than trying to sign a max player from another team.

From Love's side he'd be giving up money doing it that way. From the Cavs side... they'd have to clear true cap room for him, whereas now they can go over the cap to sign him.

Not at all, because these players are only looking to sign 1 year deals for next season.
It would have allowed the Cavs to keep their assets and have Love for all but this season.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Not at all, because these players are only looking to sign 1 year deals for next season.
It would have allowed the Cavs to keep their assets and have Love for all but this season.

please explain to me how that would work under the cap with Kyrie and LeBron drawing maxes- along with the rest of the team

the NBA salry cap is 63 million- the Cavs would have to be at basically 43 to sign Love to a max extension worth about 20 million which isabout what he is getting

Kyrie is at like 16M
LeBron is at like 21M
TT is at like 7MM
Wiggins would have been at like 5-6M

and that does not even count the rest of the team- youd have to just let lose Varejao- you could never have made trades for JR Smith or Shumpert or Mozgov without letting them go

i mean- is this stuff you do not even consider when you make such ridiculous posts?

do facts mean nothing to you?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

please explain to me how that would work under the cap with Kyrie and LeBron drawing maxes- along with the rest of the team

the NBA salry cap is 63 million- the Cavs would have to be at basically 43 to sign Love to a max extension worth about 20 million which isabout what he is getting

Kyrie is at like 16M
LeBron is at like 21M
TT is at like 7MM
Wiggins would have been at like 5-6M

and that does not even count the rest of the team- youd have to just let lose Varejao- you could never have made trades for JR Smith or Shumpert or Mozgov without letting them go

i mean- is this stuff you do not even consider when you make such ridiculous posts?

do facts mean nothing to you?

Fact is, LeBron said he was going to be patient and play with the youth/assets the Cavs had on their roster, CORRECT?
Was Love any part of that supposed plan?

So, if he really wanted Love, and Love really only wanted to play with James, then all they would have needed to do was to have Love stay put this season and then agree to both sacrifice for one year, knowing then that Gilbert would give them both a max when the new salary structure begins in '16.

As is stands now, if they both demand a one year max next season, they still won't be able to add anything, correct?

Then, assuming they both stay in '16, and both want the new super max ( which they will), and Kyie is then up to around 18-20M, they might well have near 80M tied up in 3 players.
So, then , who/ how are they adding anything?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Fact is, LeBron said he was going to be patient and play with the youth/assets the Cavs had on their roster, CORRECT?
Was Love any part of that supposed plan?



As is stands now, if they both demand a one year max next season, they still won't be able to add anything, correct?

Then, assuming they both stay in '16, and both want the new super max ( which they will), and Kyie is then up to around 18-20M, they might well have near 80M tied up in 3 players.
So, then , who/ how are they adding anything?

Actually- the Haywood contract is the huge component here you are missing along with their exceptions- and- in the future- contracts like Varejao's.

Haywood was amnestied- and is carried on the books at like 2-3 million. In the offseason- his team option is still attached to the contract for 12 million -and its voidable. - The Cavs can trade that to a team looking to either sign and trade or unload a contract they dont want (plus attach assets to it- this in my mind is the real cost of the Mozgov trade- as I really would have liked one of those 2 first rounders- assuming they dont both transfer- to be able to attach to Haywood- and the Memphis one is highly unlikely to transfer this year)

they did not use the midlevel last year so they have that- which is good for like 6 million. and the veterans exception. So they can add a 12M player, and 6 million dollar player and if they want a 2.5 million dollar player in the offseason if they are creative.

The Varejao contract sets up the same way since his 3rd year is voidable- that is a while out though obviously but operates the same way as the Haywood deal.

But- there was just no way to make the Love thing work unless LeBron, Love and Kyrie took major paycuts to do it- and that was not going to happen- as you know- LeBron had never been the highest paid player on his team and was offended when Arison and Riley tried to get him to take another paycut while they were amnestying guys like Miller just to save cash.

One of the reasons why trading Waiters was the right move is because tehy were unlikely to resign him and match a restricted offer once he was up for it since it just doesnst make sense to pay him so much to be the 4th scorer on this team. They probably will match restricted offers for Shumpert if he does what they think he can do- that and Smith is on the books for 6.5 next year and becomes expiring- and they can add him to a deal


as you know- once you are over the cap - the only way to really increase the payroll is by trading an expiring contract for a guy that has years left on his....Like you trade Smiths 6.5- who would leave- for a guy that is within the allowable range of i believe 70%- for like 8.5---and so on....

with haywoods 12 million dollar deal they can take back a contract up to like 15 million- so for instance they could take on hiberts deal or soemthing like that and attach an asset if Indiana wnated to get rid of him. Admittedly- it will only be a palyer that has some warts to him - and is overpaid- like a Sanders or Hibert or something like that- but with their top 3- if they can get a solid rotation guy (or slightly better)- and put him in their system its worth it...


trust me- I went over and read every possible Love scenario- I really did not want to give up Wiggins- and would ahve been perfectly fine to wait on Love until the trade deadline when Minne had very little leverage- adn hope that Waiters and Bennett and whatever picks wecould scrounge together would be enough-

i think the Cavs did not do that because they were afraid the Twolves would trade him elsewhere- and they wouldnt have Loves bird rights if they traded for him midseason- and they wanted him in here as soon as possible to begin to mesh with basically a whole new team and new coach.


So- they do have room to add guys in the offseason.

right now though for next year

PG- Kyrie
SG- Shumpert
SF- LeBron
PF- Love
C- Mozgov

Important Bench- Smith-SG, Varejao-PF, Thompson-PF, Miller-SG, Marion-SF

Cheap/less important bench- PG-Dellevadova, SG-Harris, James Jones-SG, Brendan Haywood-C

Who is definitely back (in all likelihood unless somethign unforeseen happens)-

DEF BACK LeBron, Love, Kyrie, Thompson, Varejao, Miller (because of LBJ unless he retires)

-maybe back- but maybe included in trades- Shumpert, Mozgov, Smith

-minor guys that it doesnt really matter- Delle, Harris, Marion, Jones,

-trade chip- Haywood-

so they could offer a future first rounder, Mozgov or Shumpert, and Haywood for like Roy Hibbert or another big man? I thinkt that is the plan

 

[WiggyRuss]

The Hidden Value Of Brendan Haywood's Contract

sorry- I think HAywood is at 10.5- not 12--- so they could get a guy up to like 13-14 for him straight up

read that article--- it goes into the strategy involved with his deal. a good read- and its something that can be applied to all large voidable deals (like the 3rd year of Varejaos contract)- its smoething many GMs are starting to do in order to give them flexibility with the cap.

an excerpt

A 34-year-old backup center on the Hornets roster seems an odd selling point for the Cavs to use in their pitch to woo LeBron James back to Cleveland, but Brendan Haywood is reportedly one of the players the Cavs believe can help them win over the four-time MVP. It’s not because of any recruiting message Haywood might deliver to James. Rather, it’s because of a vestige of the amnesty provision that’s scarcely considered outside of NBA front offices.

Haywood will almost certainly be waived before next August and never receive that $10.5MM. Still, after next year’s July moratorium, that salary would still count toward the league’s salary matching requirements if the Cavs were to trade him. Cleveland could acquire a player making as much as $5MM more than Haywood’s non-guaranteed 2015/16 salary, and the team that gives up such a player could waive Haywood and gain a chunk of cap space equal to that approximately $10.5MM salary. Therein lies the value of Haywood.

The rechristened Hornets aren’t in any position to attract James to their team, or any starry 2015 free agent like Kevin Love or Rajon Rondo, the presence of owner Michael Jordan notwithstanding. For them, the trade will net immediate cap flexibility, since Gee’s $3MM salary is non-guaranteed for 2014/15, whereas Haywood’s salary is guaranteed for this coming season.

Haywood would still have been valuable to the Hornets, who could have traded his deal to acquire a high-dollar player next summer. But it’s even more valuable to the Cavs, who can use it to show another high-dollar player — LeBron — that they have the capability to surround him with game-changing talent.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The Cavs GM, David Griffin, really does know how to manage and massage and navigate and get around the salary cap exceedingly well.

This stuff may seem rather boring and complex to fans who just like to watch basketball but I love this stuff. I totally get if the action on the court is what draws you to the game. The NBA after all, I believe, has the best athletes in the world.

The salary cap stuff though is one of the reasons why I really like the NBA. In MLB you can basically spend whatever you want- where is the strategy in that? It puts some teams at such a huge disadvantage and while their is strategy in how a low payroll team (like the beloved A's) operates- the system is rigged.

In the NFL their is a salary cap- but their are non-guaranteed contracts. If you sign a guy and he ends up getting hurt, or is a malcontent- you can just cut him- and while some of it remains on the payroll, it takes a lot of the strategy out of it.

In the NBA, there is a salary cap and the contracts are guaranteed. All the rules and minutiae of the salary cap make it a great big puzzle with lots of strategy. As a former accountant and soon to be transactional attorney, I really love parsing it out.

 

[Leking2246]

Mozgov playing great d and pretty decent o

 

[Leking2246]

Mozgov might be the best center lebron has ever played with

Z was injured and old and same goes for shaq