Moss not at 49ers workouts

[ChrisPozz]

San Francisco 49ers – Niner Insider Blog – SFGate.com Harbaugh suggested Moss miss offseason workout program

Harbaugh said “we all knew that going in” and added that he suggested Moss stay home in West Virginia to be with his family (no, he didn’t say whether he made a similar offer to other out-of-state players with wives and children).

Moss is due to arrive on April 30.

“I suggested it even,” Harbaugh said. “He’s got family living back there in West Virginia. He’s got them to take care of and I understand that. He can work out there just as easy as he can work out here over these two weeks. But he’s going to here for the football schools, and the meetings, and the on-the-field work."

 

[TobyTyler]

huh. moss was gone for a year, he could use the time to get back into playing shape. there's something we're not being told me thinks.

Agreed. I don't think Harbaugh will put up with to much of it though.

 

[deep9er]

huh. moss was gone for a year, he could use the time to get back into playing shape. there's something we're not being told me thinks.

yeah, you'd think he'd at least get started? doesn't need to go hard just yet, but start up?

just throwing this out..........due to his age, maybe its just so he doesn't overwork? if he reports April 30th, thats still four (4) months before game 1. i'd think thats enough time to REALLY get into playing shape?

 

[Flyingiguana]

it should be enough, but when a guy has questionable work ethic to begin with, makes u wonder...

 

[Bemular]

Unfortunately Moss won't run a seam or anything resembling a crossing pattern. I see him having about as much impact as Ted Ginn had as a receiver. They won't be able to get the ball to him.

Moss will run the entire tree, but to your point on the crosses, he may not be the primary on too many of them; although he ran deep and shallow crosses in 2010.

As for running seams, I'm not sure why you think he won't run seams. I'll guarantee you he will run verticals from both wide and inside. The seam-reader is one of his money makers.

However, that does bring us to a point about Moss that has not yet been discussed and that is his intelligence. Moss is a lot smarter than Smith and can read, stick and stack a defender in his sleep.

Last year Harbaugh removed sight adjustments from the passing game in order to simplify things. This year he will have to put those plays back in the book if he wants to both improve (increase) our passing production and get the most of what Moss brings to the table.

 

[shouldakepowens]

This seems like alot of talk about nothing

 

[I_am_1z]

Quote:
“We have one (prospect) we feel real good about. If we’re able to move up or not move up, we’ve got to be prepared to make a pick at 30. There is one (prospect) in particular we feel will be there, and if he’s there we’ll make the pick.”

can't help but think he isn't somebody on our radar? similar to last year when Aldon Smith wasn't on our radar (not talked a lot on this board)? this isn't to say nobody will have heard of him, just someone not mentioned a lot.

cause if he's confident this prospect will be there, then that means he's not high up on most mocks. he's likely projected mid to late 2nd?

also, if he's confident he'll be there, why trade up?

My gut feeling tells me it's Lamar Miller or Tommy Streeter

 

[MHSL82]

Moss will run the entire tree, but to your point on the crosses, he may not be the primary on too many of them; although he ran deep and shallow crosses in 2010.

As for running seams, I'm not sure why you think he won't run seams. I'll guarantee you he will run verticals from both wide and inside. The seam-reader is one of his money makers.

However, that does bring us to a point about Moss that has not yet been discussed and that is his intelligence. Moss is a lot smarter than Smith and can read, stick and stack a defender in his sleep.

Last year Harbaugh removed sight adjustments from the passing game in order to simplify things. This year he will have to put those plays back in the book if he wants to both improve (increase) our passing production and get the most of what Moss brings to the table.

Football smarts, like street football smarts and passing game experience intelligence re: defenses, I'd put Moss ahead of Smith. Everything else, smart-wise, I'd put Smith ahead of Moss. Smith thinks too much, I wouldn't be surprised if Smith knows where the mistake is the second he passes the ball.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Moss will run the entire tree, but to your point on the crosses, he may not be the primary on too many of them; although he ran deep and shallow crosses in 2010.

As for running seams, I'm not sure why you think he won't run seams. I'll guarantee you he will run verticals from both wide and inside. The seam-reader is one of his money makers.

However, that does bring us to a point about Moss that has not yet been discussed and that is his intelligence. Moss is a lot smarter than Smith and can read, stick and stack a defender in his sleep.

Last year Harbaugh removed sight adjustments from the passing game in order to simplify things. This year he will have to put those plays back in the book if he wants to both improve (increase) our passing production and get the most of what Moss brings to the table.

Has a higher football IQ, better instincts, etc., almost certainly. But no way Moss is more intelligent than Smith in conventional terms.

 

[LifeLong9ersFan]

I don't agree with this.

Come on Sick, he has more than enough arm strength. Look at all those deep passes on the sidelines he is consistently throwing 15 yards out of bounds over the receivers head

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I would contend that Smith's relatively weaker arm causes him to struggle with the timing and placement of his deep ball. There's no doubt he can throw the ball 40-50 yards. However, he has to really step into it to do so, and when he does that he often seems to lose some accuracy. Not to mention he really struggles to throw deep when he's pressured and can't step into it.

I can't imagine that anyone would argue the deep ball hasn't been a problem for Smith, whatever the cause.

 

[h0ckeysk83r]

Eh nothing to see here. As long as he is there by april 30th then im fine with it.

 

[TobyTyler]

Moss will run the entire tree, but to your point on the crosses, he may not be the primary on too many of them; although he ran deep and shallow crosses in 2010.

As for running seams, I'm not sure why you think he won't run seams. I'll guarantee you he will run verticals from both wide and inside. The seam-reader is one of his money makers.

However, that does bring us to a point about Moss that has not yet been discussed and that is his intelligence. Moss is a lot smarter than Smith and can read, stick and stack a defender in his sleep.

Last year Harbaugh removed sight adjustments from the passing game in order to simplify things. This year he will have to put those plays back in the book if he wants to both improve (increase) our passing production and get the most of what Moss brings to the table.

I think the "alligator arms" on the seam routes were what got him cut from New England, were they not?

 

[NinerSickness]

Come on Sick, he has more than enough arm strength. Look at all those deep passes on the sidelines he is consistently throwing 15 yards out of bounds over the receivers head

lol! I stand corrected.

Goodness gracious, arm strength and accuracy are two completely different things. His disagreement seemed specific to arm strength to me - but whatever. The point remains the same - Alex has plenty of arm strength to throw deep routes - accuracy, on the other hand could use some improvement - on both sides of the equation - QB & WR.

This is what I mean: Alex Smith loses accuracy when he throws fast because of his lack of arm strength. If he were like Tom Brady, who can throw with good velocity while standing tall, his accuracy wouldn't suffer as much. However, he has to throw all of his weight behind his fast throws, which causes his accuracy to fail. So the problem is his arm strength.

His lack of arm strength also causes a problem with his release time. It takes extra time to step into his throws more. This was my criticism of him back when he was in college, and he's had the same problem in the pro's.

 

[Bemular]

I think the "alligator arms" on the seam routes were what got him cut from New England, were they not?

I think there were a few reasons for his departure - on-field, locker room, media. Not sure which one broke the camel or if it was the aggregate.

 

[Southern9er]

I doubt Moss is the type of receiver who will be successful in the 49ers pedestrian passing attack. My understanding is that he will only run straight ahead routes and deep routes; the very routes which Alex Smith does not have the arm strength for.

Yeah...because he was horrible at hitting Vernon Davis on those routes huh? Frequently under threw Davis, especially on the sideline...

 

[Crimsoncrew]

This is what I mean: Alex Smith loses accuracy when he throws fast because of his lack of arm strength. If he were like Tom Brady, who can throw with good velocity while standing tall, his accuracy wouldn't suffer as much. However, he has to throw all of his weight behind his fast throws, which causes his accuracy to fail. So the problem is his arm strength.

His lack of arm strength also causes a problem with his release time. It takes extra time to step into his throws more. This was my criticism of him back when he was in college, and he's had the same problem in the pro's.

I agree. That's what I was driving at in my post above.

 

[NinerSickness]

Yeah...because he was horrible at hitting Vernon Davis on those routes huh? Frequently under threw Davis, especially on the sideline...

Davis didn't catch a lot of deep passes that required a ton of velocity like out patterns. Even Ken Dorsey can throw a raidbow deep to the sidelines. That isn't where QBs with lack of arm strength usually fail (at least it's not where Alex fails). Alex fails when he has to get the ball to a spot quickly.

When simply trying to hit a WR deep & in stride who has a step on the closest DB, Alex is actually extremely accurate. However, he's not very accurate on... say... combeback routes to the sideline (when rolling out or when stading still); He's also inaccurate when trying to hit a WR quickly in front of (meaning closer to the OL) the safety but past the CB.

It doesn't mean Alex is a bad QB. He's not. He's a limited QB with good accuracy on throws that require touch, but he's limited and more predictable / easier to defend than good QBs like Eli Manning.

 

[Bemular]

Actually, Smith has plenty of arm strength for the deep go's, posts & seams that Moss will likely be targeted on.

I don't agree with this.

...That isn't where QBs with lack of arm strength usually fail (at least it's not where Alex fails)... When simply trying to hit a WR deep & in stride who has a step on the closest DB, Alex is actually extremely accurate.

Wow, that disagreement lasted a whole 29 posts - LOL!!...

Sick, you are going in a completely different direction with this discussion. So, for the sake of clarification, this is my point.

Smith has plenty of arm strength for vertical routes. What Smith lacks is velocity for "outs" (which is precisely what I said in post #16). But, to tell the truth, everything I have said in this thread is common knowledge to even the most casual fan, so why you and Crimson (and your little buddy, yeah I saw him sneak in there) are arguing against these well known facts about Smith is beyond me, at least in your case. Either way, both of you should know better.

A couple other question/corrections are in order here as well. Let's start with this statement:

However, he's [Smith's] not very accurate on... say... combeback routes to the sideline (when rolling out or when stading still)

Regarding this statement, first, how are you quantifying "not very accurate", between 30-40%? Then, second, how are you contrasting that figure? I don't know what his accuracy was on "outs" (although I could find out), but from my observations the only thing inaccurate here seems to be your statement.


He's also inaccurate when trying to hit a WR quickly in front of (meaning closer to the OL) the safety but past the CB.

Again, not sure how you are quantifying "inaccurate" and I'm not even sure what route splits CB's & S's but gets thrown to "quickly". Perhaps you are thinking of LB's & S's. Either way, by my observation some of Smiths best passes this season split defenders. The playoffs alone should be evidence of that; I'm not sure how you can suggest otherwise.

Lastly, both you and Crimson have suggested that Alex Smith needs to wind-up like Juan Marichal just to throw a pass over 40 yards and that is just blatantly false. His is not the strongest arm but it is not nearly as weak as you Crimson are making it out to be - if it were, he wouldn't be in the NFL.

 

[deep9er]

Davis didn't catch a lot of deep passes that required a ton of velocity like out patterns. Even Ken Dorsey can throw a raidbow deep to the sidelines. That isn't where QBs with lack of arm strength usually fail (at least it's not where Alex fails). Alex fails when he has to get the ball to a spot quickly.

When simply trying to hit a WR deep & in stride who has a step on the closest DB, Alex is actually extremely accurate. However, he's not very accurate on... say... combeback routes to the sideline (when rolling out or when stading still); He's also inaccurate when trying to hit a WR quickly in front of (meaning closer to the OL) the safety but past the CB.

It doesn't mean Alex is a bad QB. He's not. He's a limited QB with good accuracy on throws that require touch, ...........than good QBs like Eli Manning.

"but he's limited and more predictable / easier to defend"

i pulled this part out of the last paragraph above, not disputing but just want to explore it. ok so he has good accuracy on throws that require touch, but not good when it requires him to get the ball to a spot quickly.

on getting the ball to a spot, is it physical or mental? does he lack the arm strength to fire that ball to a spot, or does he lack the "gun slinger" mentality to fire it to a spot?