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[vancelot23]

I've been pushing for Porter since before free agency even began. I wanted him or Grimes more than anybody.

 

[cincygrad]

We didn't need to sign Nicks, Williams or anyone like that to have had a good offseason. For you to suggest that there's no middle ground between our signings and signing those guys mentioned above makes you clueless. You guys are dancing to Brown's beat.

And just because it's "as good as it gets" with Brown, doesn't make it a good offseason either.

We could have had Porter, but settled for a guy in Pacman who for months has been rumored to have been mutually parting ways with the Bengals, and never was in Jason Allen. Again, not asking for Carr or even Routt. We couldn't cough off what it would take to get Porter.

We could have had Bush, a multi-talented RB, but instead we settled for BJGE, who despite being better than Benson won't improve the dynamics of this offense.

I'm glad we got Nelson back, but he was not a longterm signing. He could have been franchised for cheaper than what we signed him for and given him another year to prove himself and/or given ourselves another year to find a replacement either through the draft or FA. That's a fail any which way you look at it.

The guards? As Doug likes to put it, any warm body would be an improvement over McGlynn and Livings. A good offseason in this department is not signing the cheapest warm body flops available in the market.

Just because you know what to "expect" from Brown, doesn't mean it's a good offseason when he's met those expectations. That's something Hobson would argue.

Couldn't agree more. Just because expectations are low, doesn't mean the offseason was a good one. We signed an aging guard, a part time corner, and an average running back. We could have used the extra cash to make some significant changes to a key position group and chose not to do it. After we finish the draft, we'll likely be in exactly the same place as we finished last season -- A team that's good enough to beat bad teams, but can't beat the good teams. This would be acceptable if our hands were tied due a difficult cap situation, but that wasn't our situation.

 

[bengaldoug]

We have significantly upgraded our offense.....we've added a legitimate starter at guard and eliminated Livings and McGlynn....hopefully we'll draft the other starter.....I like Green-Ellis better than Bush, because he doesn't fumble and is a good pass blocker......I'm not so sure about the line changes, adding Anderson and Harvey, while losing Rucker and Fanene.....Allen gives us a little more depth at corner, and I think it's okay we kept Nelson.....the only real issue I have offensively is we didn't add a veteran #2 WR.....all in all, I'd give it a C grade, maybe a C+......

 

[flamingrey]

Cowboys fans are probably happy they've signed a "legitimate" starter at guard as well. They just don't know any better. I bet it's a similar situation to ours. Just a hunch.

 

[bengaldoug]

Cowboys fans are probably happy they've signed a "legitimate" starter at guard as well. They just don't know any better. I bet it's a similar situation to ours. Just a hunch.

If you've seen Livings play, and I know you have, it's pretty crazy that you offer that opinion.....absolutely no way Wharton isnt a huge upgrade......

 

[cincygrad]

My issue is that we lost more than we gained on the d-line, didn't upgrade at all at corner (Jason Allen is a third corner and we have plenty of those), had minor upgrades at guard and running back and did nothing at receiver.

Our signings were not bad, but given the finances available, we could have and should have done a little more.

 

[flamingrey]

The above was a bit of an exaggeration, but a couple things:

1. Livings was absolutely horrible and Wharton will be an improvement, but you don't have to be much of a turnstile to make for a bad line. In any case, if he needs help with his man - whether it's less help than Livings or not - it doesn't bode well for the line.

2. Let's say Wharton is a big improvement over Livings and doesn't need help with his man, I still don't see how we've "significantly upgraded" the offense. There was much more wrong with the offense than just the guards. And it starts with the play callers/schemers. So unless Wharton is a brute and just dominates d-lines - which he would not be here if he were - I'm skeptical how much net upgrade he'll be.

I can appreciate your optimism, but I'm going to have to see it to believe it.

 

[vancelot23]

I don't have a problem with not signing a WR. Even marginal guys were inking crazy deals. Better off drafting one.

 

[bengaldoug]

Wharton will likely need help in pass blocking but he has a rep as a strong run blocker, and the Carolina running game was at least above average while he was there......I wish I had counted the times Livings man blew Benson up three yards deep.....shouldn't often happen with Wharton, and the left side becomes really strong in the running game going behind Wharton and Whit.....

 

[vancelot23]

I'd like to hear what Flaming would have done besides Porter.

 

[bengaldoug]

I don't have a problem with not signing a WR. Even marginal guys were inking crazy deals. Better off drafting one.

While it's true we would have had to overpay, I think a solid experienced #2 would be more productive than what we can expect of a rookie, though a guy like Floyd is certainly intriguing, and the rookie will be better down the road a couple years.....I'm just thinking about trying to contend this year, which could be pissing into the wind anyway.....

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I'd like to hear what Flaming would have done besides Porter.

You won't. He just has to shoot down all that was done basically, and declare himself the smartest guy here. He doesn't want to offer up reasonable counter measures to how he would have fixed it, only that everyone else is thinking incorrectly.

 

[vancelot23]

Here's what I see:

Guard: There were 3 "elite" guys-Nicks, Grubbs, Mathis. Nicks was out of our range by a mile, Mathis wouldn't come back here for anything. Grubbs, maybe, but pretty unreasonable. We obviously want to run the ball more, so we got a big, road-grading guard. An obvious upgrade from Livings.

RB: There was Bush and Green-Ellis. Bush is bigger and caught the ball well, but wore down last season (as Flaming pointed out I believe). BJGE is a very high character guy who just doesn't fumble. He has a career 4ypc average and runs hard. He also said on his Twitter account that just because he didn't catch it a lot, doesn't mean he can't. Another huge upgrade over the malcontented, asshat, fumble machine we had. Bush isn't that much better, if at all.

WR: Robert Meachem was a guy everybody wanted. He got $6 mil/yr and a chance to play for pass-happy SD. Mario Manningham got up to $10 mil over 2 years. Mike Wallace wants Larry Fitzgerald money. Marginal WRs like Eddie Royal might have been signable, but aren't really #2 guys anyway. I'd much rather just draft Floyd or Wright.

D-line: Frostee Rucker got overpaid. Wouldn't have matched that. Jamaal Anderson cancels out that loss. He's a good run defender, and a good signing. I would have brought back Fanene for what he got. I don't like Harvey, so we lost a little on that unless Harvey surprises. We re-signed Sims which is big.

Secondary: Brought back Nelson which is big also. I wanted Porter, and was disappointed, but Allen isn't terrible, and better than Jennings. Pacman actually played fairly well. Only 50% of passes were completed against him and 1 TD during the season. It could have been better with Porter, but it's not bad either. We do still need to figure out Crocker's spot.

Linebacker is the one position still in question. Lawson remains unsigned and who knows what will happen with Rey. If Keuchly falls to us in the draft, I'm not sure I would pass on him. Might re-sign Lawson still, might sign somebody else.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Here's what I see:

Linebacker is the one position still in question. Lawson remains unsigned and who knows what will happen with Rey. If Keuchly falls to us in the draft, I'm not sure I would pass on him. Might re-sign Lawson still, might sign somebody else.

I agree, if Keuchly is there, you go with him at 17, I just never thought he would make it that far.

He would be a major upgrade at MLB and a good pure leader on our defense. Great guy on and off the field, a true leader.

Check this out regarding him, good video.

Luke Kuechly College Butkus Award Winner 2011 - YouTube

 

[vancelot23]

Most people thought Keuchly was a lock for the Eagles, but they traded for Ryans to play MLB.

 

[flamingrey]

Bare minimum we should have gotten Porter and Bush.

Porter was here and should not have left without a contract. Even if it meant "overpaying" for him.

Bush was here and should not have left without a contract. Bush did not wear down last season. His struggles were a result of Oakland losing their 2 best receivers resulting in a poor passing game, and hence an overloaded box. Nonetheless, conditioning can always be improved.

You guys can keep making excuses for Brown, but there was no reason not to at least have Grubbs and Nicks come in for a visit. He didn't even try getting either of those guys. It's one thing for a FA not to want to play for your team, it's another not to even acknowledge their available despite their position being one of your biggest needs (x2).

WR. There were a plethora of WR's available that Brown could have gotten his hands on. But see above. No visit. No offer. Nothing. We have enough young guys on the offense to make mistakes. A good veteran receiver would have been the smart direction.

Franchising Nelson would have been a good move. Signing him to a long term contract...not so much.

Pacman's signing was fine, but there were better available. Allen sucks. Another need ignored for 2 guys who came on the cheap.

Frostee Rucker was not overpaid. Veterans will get paid more than they have in the past going on forward. The money teams aren't spending on rookies has to go somewhere. And no, Jamaal Anderson does not cancel him out. Fanene was another big loss. What was once the strength of the defense....well, we'll see.

It was a good offseason by Brown and Hobson's standards. Not so much by a fan who only cares about winning and watching the team put the best product forward.

 

[flamingrey]

You won't. He just has to shoot down all that was done basically, and declare himself the smartest guy here. He doesn't want to offer up reasonable counter measures to how he would have fixed it, only that everyone else is thinking incorrectly.

You need a kleenex?

 

[vancelot23]

Frostee Rucker was vastly overpaid. He had one productive season and he's suddenly worth a ton of money? Nope. I agree on Porter but Bush Is not light years better than BJGE. It's very close. I'm happy with that. Nicks got 60 million. Not interested. Too much. WRs also overpaid and not many good fits anyway. I'm ok with that if we get one in the draft early. Was it the best offseason. Of course not. But it wasn't bad. Guess who else didn't go crazy an bring in Nicks or overpay WRs or DEs. Green Bay, New England, Pittsburgh, Baltimore. Build with the draft and fill holes in free agency. If you're having to go sign a bunch of starters in FA you need to reexamine what you're doing.

 

[vancelot23]

Also, indications are the Bengals like Green-Ellis more than Bush due to his blocking ability and to quote Marvin "ability to catch". He was the target all along.

 

[bengaldoug]

Also, indications are the Bengals like Green-Ellis more than Bush due to his blocking ability and to quote Marvin "ability to catch". He was the target all along.

They're right, too.....Bush will put it on the ground, and while he's a decent receiving option, he's not a real good pass blocker.....Green-Ellis is a huge improvement over the thug, Benson......