Modifications for Horsepower, then and now.

[outofyourmind]

I'm not even sure what you do to modern engines to get more horsepower other than a computer program, that doesn't break the bank.

On my 1st new car, back when they didn't have that crap, here's what you did, in order.
1) Cut the catalytic converter off and put duel exhausts on. $50
2) Distributer recurve, advance the timing. $35
3) Rejet the 4bbl Carburater $10, or install 4bbl $60
4) Install headers yourself $75
5) Install hi-lift cam, fuck new lifters $45
6) Take it to a real mechanic to fix everything you fucked up $100

That's all it took to double the horsepower,,,, $300 bucks.
What did you guys do to your cars???

 

[JuiceTheGator]

Wow. I've been meaning to address this because my old Wagoneer is a lead sled at 6,000 pounds. The AMC 360 originally had 190hp. (can you imagine?!) But the guy I bought it from put in a new Jasper 360 crate engine and:

--put an Edelbrock intake manifold
--Put an Edelbrock 4bbl carb
--put the big MSD ignition and coil
--high volume air filter
--disconnected the ignition module for some reason - didn't seem to do anything

Well, the beast still can't have more than 200hp. I'm not sure what else to do. Maybe try to dick around with the timing like you did? You think electric cooling fans instead of belt driven would help?

I don't think I could change the CAM without lifting the engine?

 

[outofyourmind]

Wow. I've been meaning to address this because my old Wagoneer is a lead sled at 6,000 pounds. The AMC 360 originally had 190hp. (can you imagine?!) But the guy I bought it from put in a new Jasper 360 crate engine and:

--put an Edelbrock intake manifold
--Put an Edelbrock 4bbl carb
--put the big MSD ignition and coil
--high volume air filter
--disconnected the ignition module for some reason - didn't seem to do anything

Well, the beast still can't have more than 200hp. I'm not sure what else to do. Maybe try to dick around with the timing like you did? You think electric cooling fans instead of belt driven would help?

I don't think I could change the CAM without lifting the engine?

not sure what a Jasper 360 is, but this is what I would look at.
1) Rear End ratio. If it has hiway gears, then more power wont make a huge difference off the line. Find out what it is and move up (numerically), like if it has a 3.08 now, you could go to a 3.23 or 3.55 (or whatever ratios amc used.
2) Make sure that your edelbrock intake is a dual plane design. If it isn't, it's killing your low end power and torque. A 360 intake puts the power too high in the RPM range for a heavy vehicle like yours.
3) If it doesn't have headers on it, put them on with a dual exhaust system with an X pipe.

I'll bet your problem is at least one of these, if not all 3.
Let me know, and if that doesn't solve the issue, there are more things to look for.

 

[JuiceTheGator]

Jasper is just the company that still makes old engine designs...can get almost any old engine new from them. So, I have a new short block of the original AMC 360.

I wonder if the ratio can be changed without a huge deal. The ratio is really low but I don't plan on taking it into the mountains or hauling a yacht:
Front: Dana model 44 full-floating solid axle. Multi-leaf special springs. Standard axle ratio 2.73:1
Rear: AMC semi-floating solid axle. Multi-leaf special springs. Standard axle ratio 2.73:1

Great tip on the 4bbl carb...will check fo' sho'.

I was going to do headers but backed-off. My exhaust guy said they're likely to leak easily and my Waggy is so original I hesitate to put dual exhaust on it. But if it would really be helpful I would.

 

[JuiceTheGator]

huh...sez here you can get all kinds of different axles. Might call them tomorrow:

Used WAGONEER Rear Axle - Buy used WAGONEER Rear End

 

[outofyourmind]

Jasper is just the company that still makes old engine designs...can get almost any old engine new from them. So, I have a new short block of the original AMC 360.

I wonder if the ratio can be changed without a huge deal. The ratio is really low but I don't plan on taking it into the mountains or hauling a yacht:
Front: Dana model 44 full-floating solid axle. Multi-leaf special springs. Standard axle ratio 2.73:1
Rear: AMC semi-floating solid axle. Multi-leaf special springs. Standard axle ratio 2.73:1

Great tip on the 4bbl carb...will check fo' sho'.

I was going to do headers but backed-off. My exhaust guy said they're likely to leak easily and my Waggy is so original I hesitate to put dual exhaust on it. But if it would really be helpful I would.

Here's the first red flag, the 2.73. That's nothing but a hiway gear. Depending on how you drive this thing (off road/hiway/around town) will be the deciding factor. But don't change the gear without knowing what kind of intake manifold and cam specs you have. But most anything is better than that 2.73 though. Gear ratio is the single best/easiest high performance upgrade.

Headers can be a pain in the ass, but a lot of the manufacturers in that era produced a factory high performance exhaust manifold. Check that out. Headers are good for at least a 10% increase in power though.

Is it an automatic or standard shift??

 

[outofyourmind]

oh, one more thing about the rear end ratio. don't take the word of a tag or plaque or owners manual on an older vehicle about the actual ratio, check it manually before you do anything to it. sometimes it was changed somewhere down the line.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I'm not really one to tinker with cars myself...but a good friend of mine is...dealer mechanic but does jobs on the side...for my G37 his suggestion...aftermarket intakes & exhausts...parts & his cheap labor, about $1500-$1700 depending on the brand.

That said, he says the torque only goes up a small amount...most guys I know that have done it say they're gaining about 7 lbs. of torque...Idk if that's worth that kind of money, but the exhaust sound is why a lot of guys do it.

 

[ckhokie]

I'm not even sure what you do to modern engines to get more horsepower other than a computer program, that doesn't break the bank.

On my 1st new car, back when they didn't have that crap, here's what you did, in order.
1) Cut the catalytic converter off and put duel exhausts on. $50
2) Distributer recurve, advance the timing. $35
3) Rejet the 4bbl Carburater $10, or install 4bbl $60
4) Install headers yourself $75
5) Install hi-lift cam, fuck new lifters $45
6) Take it to a real mechanic to fix everything you fucked up $100

That's all it took to double the horsepower,,,, $300 bucks.
What did you guys do to your cars???

wow that's cheap

Having a German car, a remap and new injectors was $1200.
A cat back exhaust is like $800, turbo back is closer to $1000. (custom may be the best bet)
A test pipe to remove the cat is $150-200

That is really all I can do before looking at replacing the turbo, which would eventually lead to bigger brakes, new clutch, then possible bottom end build?

 

[fordman84]

Most factory cars can't breath worth a damn. replacing intake and adding equal length headers will get you a lot. Be smart about it though, gotta typically increase your fuel pump or injectors to keep up with the increased air. Mustangs are my thing, but I know the stock iron heads are pieces of shit. A good set of aftermarket heads will run you about $1000, but you will get a ton more air flowing and it will really come alive. Then you gotta get the air out, and keep the mix right. I only tinker with rear ends when they are way too low or I'm working on an offroad rig. A set of 4:10's will really launch you, but you better like running 70 tops on the highway.

 

[JuiceTheGator]

Here's the first red flag, the 2.73. That's nothing but a hiway gear. Depending on how you drive this thing (off road/hiway/around town) will be the deciding factor. But don't change the gear without knowing what kind of intake manifold and cam specs you have. But most anything is better than that 2.73 though. Gear ratio is the single best/easiest high performance upgrade.

Headers can be a pain in the ass, but a lot of the manufacturers in that era produced a factory high performance exhaust manifold. Check that out. Headers are good for at least a 10% increase in power though.

Is it an automatic or standard shift??

An '89 Wagoneer is a 3 speed automatic. I think that's why the gear ratio is 2.73. I use it mostly for 45mph driving to my office and around town. I guess I'll probably just leave it all original and sell it to some nostalgic old dude. If I really wanted it to be my off-road machine, I'd slam a CRD in there and change everything. But this one is too original to tear apart.

 

[JuiceTheGator]

^^

One weird thing is the kid before me had a straight pipe muffler on it. It was miserably loud. So, I put the correct muffler on it and it gained a lot of power. Apparently, the lack of mufflerage screwed up the backflow pressure or something?

 

[fordman84]

^^

One weird thing is the kid before me had a straight pipe muffler on it. It was miserably loud. So, I put the correct muffler on it and it gained a lot of power. Apparently, the lack of mufflerage screwed up the backflow pressure or something?

yup, people think that no muffler will add power. Most of the time it strips a lot. Backpressure is needed.

 

[Cobrabit]

My '89 5.0:
- stroked / bored a 347
- H/C/I
- long tube headers/offroad hpipe/dumps
- 100 shot of nitrous
- tko transmission with pro 5.0 shifter
- Hoosier slicks with a 3.55 gear


My '96 cobra:
- replaced pistons and rods with forged pieces
- cleaned up the valves and any casting imperfections in the heads and intake
- long tube headers/offroad hpipe/side exhaust
- tubular front member with coil overs
- torque arm and panhard bar for the rear suspension
- viper spec t56 transmission with b&m ripper shifter
- aluminum flywheel/drive shaft
- spec stage 3 clutch
- paxton novi 2000 rr super charger with intercooler
- aubframe connectors
- nitto drag radials
- 4.10 gears


Basically a shit-ton of time and money.

 

[BTHOtu]

2013 Mustang GT Premium
Eibach Sportline Springs $255.99 Lowers 1.5" Reduced Squat and Improves Handling
JM Panhard Bar $114.99 To straighten the wheels back up after lowering 1.5"
Air Raid Cold Air Intake $339.99
BBK 90mm Throttle Body $549.99
Boss 302 H-Pipe w/side exhaust $794.99 Because I think it's cool.
QTP Boss 302 Electric Exhaust Cut Outs. $338.99 Loud when I want it. Quiet when cruising through town.
Magnaflow Street Axleback Exhaust $696.99
Bama Custom Tune $379.99

I'll be finished in a couple of months then going to dyno it. Hoping for 420+ HP to the wheels.

 

[The Pimp Of Eloquence]

Wow. I've been meaning to address this because my old Wagoneer is a lead sled at 6,000 pounds. The AMC 360 originally had 190hp. (can you imagine?!) But the guy I bought it from put in a new Jasper 360 crate engine and:

--put an Edelbrock intake manifold
--Put an Edelbrock 4bbl carb
--put the big MSD ignition and coil
--high volume air filter
--disconnected the ignition module for some reason - didn't seem to do anything

Well, the beast still can't have more than 200hp. I'm not sure what else to do. Maybe try to dick around with the timing like you did? You think electric cooling fans instead of belt driven would help?

I don't think I could change the CAM without lifting the engine?

Cylinder Heads is where you'll get the most bang for your buck. Unless you have good flowing heads nothing else you are going to do will add much. A set from Edelbrock will run you about $1300 and then you'll have to have to pay for a valve train (preferably a set with hydraulic roller lifters).

It costs money but you should be able to get 400 hp out of it with it being a docile user friendly engine.

AMC 360 Engine Build - 370ci CC/Rambler Engine Makes 480HP - Car Craft Magazine

 

[JuiceTheGator]

Cylinder Heads is where you'll get the most bang for your buck. Unless you have good flowing heads nothing else you are going to do will add much. A set from Edelbrock will run you about $1300 and then you'll have to have to pay for a valve train (preferably a set with hydraulic roller lifters).

It costs money but you should be able to get 400 hp out of it with it being a docile user friendly engine.

AMC 360 Engine Build - 370ci CC/Rambler Engine Makes 480HP - Car Craft Magazine

That was a great link - much appreciated. If I keep this thing long enough, I'll have some deisions to make on whether to rebuild the 360 really well, like the article, or forget the 360 altogether.

 

[JohnRandle]

Cylinder Heads is where you'll get the most bang for your buck. Unless you have good flowing heads nothing else you are going to do will add much. A set from Edelbrock will run you about $1300 and then you'll have to have to pay for a valve train (preferably a set with hydraulic roller lifters).

It costs money but you should be able to get 400 hp out of it with it being a docile user friendly engine.

AMC 360 Engine Build - 370ci CC/Rambler Engine Makes 480HP - Car Craft Magazine

Yep, and a good cam grind. The heads are where you get the compression and intake/exhaust flow.

 

[BTHOtu]

My Boss 302 H-Pipe/Quad Exhaust and QTP Exhaust Cutouts will be here tomorrow. Probably won't get more Horsepower but the cool factor will increase. Straight pipes out the side for free flowing loudness and with a flip of the switch it will go back to stock exhaust. Can't wait to crawl under the car and install it!

 

[outofyourmind]

sweet
I don't see why it wouldn't give a some more horsepower.
Can you adjust the cutouts so that you get a partial open, so as to adjust how loud they are, or is it open all the way/closed all the way.

nice set up