MJ vs Russell vs Kareem

[BOTSLAYER]

Why is MJ considered better than those 2? All stats I see favor the other 2, they have more MVPs and Rings. If we are talking intangibles and will to win or dominate I can understand Kareem being ruled out to a point because he did not always run down the court. But Russell was Coach and Player for 2 rings. Also I never heard of those 2 punching teammates or playing black jack at a casino during the playoffs. Or "retiring" in their prime to play baseball.

It is just my opinion that a great big will have a greater affect on the game than any SG could.

But 95% of the world says MJ is the greatest of all time, why?

We can also throw Wilt in this discussion, maybe Magic.

 

[trojanfan12]

I can understand Kareem being ruled out to a point because he did not always run down the court.

You try dragging Walton and Lanier up and down the court!!

The movie airplane Kareem Abdul Jabbar - YouTube

 

[BOTSLAYER]

one of my favorite movies of all time.

So it sounds like we are not docking points for that then

 

[Clayton]

I think because most people realize that if MJ wouldn't have stepped away from the game for 2 years of his prime that he would have some ridiculous stats.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

ok, that is a good point. but MJ did retire, is it more of a peak thing? a more exciting to watch thing?

 

[Smart]

What stats suggest Russell is better than Jordan?

 

[piss-tons]

11 rings. Has the most defensive win shares BY FAR. Best winner who perfected the Celtics fast break. Did whatever was needed for his team to win.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

I think because most people realize that if MJ wouldn't have stepped away from the game for 2 years of his prime that he would have some ridiculous stats.

You still got to give Hakeem and the Rockets their due regardless of whether or not Jordan played. People forget the Bulls had slowly started to rebuild their roster after he retired the first time. They considered trading Pippen for Shawn Kemp to make up for the loss of Grant and Scott Williams in the paint, as they already had a young player in Kukoc who played the same position as Pippen.

And for the record, Kareem has the same amount of rings as Jordan.

 

[Smart]

11 rings. Has the most defensive win shares BY FAR. Best winner who perfected the Celtics fast break. Did whatever was needed for his team to win.

He was debatably not even the best player on his own team. Leading the league in defensive win shares is great and all, but Jordan led the league in actual win shares nine times. Russell never the league in actual win shares.

In his best season, Russell shot 46.7%. For his career, Jordan shot 50%. And Russell was a center, not a guard. Jordan's FT percentage was 30% higher. And it isn't like Jordan was some slouch defensively. He led the league in steals three times and once had 8.0 RPG as a guard.

They aren't even close in terms of statistics. This is more lopsided than Wilson vs. Luck, which is saying something.

 

[Clayton]

11 rings. Has the most defensive win shares BY FAR. Best winner who perfected the Celtics fast break. Did whatever was needed for his team to win.

MJ also had the #3 media market, the dunk contests, never lost in the Finals, was the best player on the Dream Team (and in his prime) which is considered to be the best team ever assembled, and was able to win without a really good big man which is a bit of an anomaly.

I do think the best Lakers teams and the best Celtics teams would beat the best MJ team but it would be fun to watch.

 

[Clayton]

You still got to give Hakeem and the Rockets their due regardless of whether or not Jordan played.

Yes and No. Ill give Hakeem credit for being better than Robinson and more versatile than Shaq but there is a bit of a Dirk (and KG in Minnesota) problem with Hakeem. He was never given the appropriate supporting cast to compete with a guy like Jordan.

 

[jayviabay]

MJ also had the #3 media market, the dunk contests, never lost in the Finals, was the best player on the Dream Team (and in his prime) which is considered to be the best team ever assembled, and was able to win without a really good big man which is a bit of an anomaly.

I do think the best Lakers teams and the best Celtics teams would beat the best MJ team but it would be fun to watch.

I guess this is a matter of opinion? Rodman was a really good big man and I dont think jordan would have 6 rings without him. Rodman guarded every teams best big rather it was a 4 or a 5 man. He could give you 20 rebounds effortlessly and take guys like shaq, malone, etc.., out of the game mentally with his antics.

If he was a below average big, i doubt the organization would of put up with him being a distraction and a self-marketer. He impacted the last 3 peat more than most will give him credit for

 

[piss-tons]

Russel WAS the greatest player on those teams and it isn't even debatable. Ask any former Celtic who played on that team who the most important player was. He was the master of the fast break, instructing Cousy where to go, and Cousy would knowing Russel would get the rebound. 11 rings don't lie.

 

[Smart]

I guess this is a matter of opinion? Rodman was a really good big man and I dont think jordan would have 6 rings without him. Rodman guarded every teams best big rather it was a 4 or a 5 man. He could give you 20 rebounds effortlessly and take guys like shaq, malone, etc.., out of the game mentally with his antics.

If he was a below average big, i doubt the organization would of put up with him being a distraction and a self-marketer. He impacted the last 3 peat more than most will give him credit for

Maybe i'm just wrong about this, but I wouldn't consider Rodman a big man. Even if he rebounded like one, he was only 6'7 and he played power forward. He was never a true post center.

 

[jayviabay]

Maybe i'm just wrong about this, but I wouldn't consider Rodman a big man. Even if he rebounded like one, he was only 6'7 and he played power forward. He was never a true post center.

I wouldnt say you are wrong at all. If being a post center or having a post center is what he was referring to, then I understand the point. Regardless of height and position, he guarded other teams "post centers" on defense and he did better than most.

 

[Smart]

Russel WAS the greatest player on those teams and it isn't even debatable. Ask any former Celtic who played on that team who the most important player was. He was the master of the fast break, instructing Cousy where to go, and Cousy would knowing Russel would get the rebound. 11 rings don't lie.

I was more talking about Havlicek, but I guess his prime was really after Russell retired. At his best, Havlicek was good for 26-28 PPG, 7-9 RPG, and 7 APG.

He was probably the best player on their last two title teams, but to be fair, Russell was more of a coach by that point anyways.

 

[HammerDown]

This will be debated forever but based on pure team basketball players, Magic Johnson was the greatest ever. Ask the top 100 basketball minds in history who they'd choose to build a team around and Magic would get more votes than anyone. Start by asking Pat Riley.

Ad for pure domination, you'd have to give the nod to MJ because of the rings but Wilt and Shaq were the most dominant basketball players we'll probably ever see.

 

[Clayton]

This will be debated forever but based on pure team basketball players, Magic Johnson was the greatest ever. Ask the top 100 basketball minds in history who they'd choose to build a team around and Magic would get more votes than anyone. Start by asking Pat Riley.

No chance Magic would go in the top 4. The top 4 would go something like:

NBA Ultimate Fantasy Draft - NBA - SI.com

And Magic should probably be 5. Lebron 6.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Pat Riley is going to be a super biased opinion comparing who he would choose, he even has Magic 2.0 now, or more like Oscar 3.0.

I really think this comes down to how you define GOAT. I personally go with domination on both ends and then results. I am not sure a SG can ever dominate like a Big. But no center is as much fun to watch as an explosive efficient SG.

Confirmed, Rodman not a big, his rebound is awesome, especially for his size. A lot like Wade plays like he is 6' 8" but is not.

 

[jayviabay]

Pat Riley is going to be a super biased opinion comparing who he would choose, he even has Magic 2.0 now, or more like Oscar 3.0.

I really think this comes down to how you define GOAT. I personally go with domination on both ends and then results. I am not sure a SG can ever dominate like a Big. But no center is as much fun to watch as an explosive efficient SG.

Confirmed, Rodman not a big, his rebound is awesome, especially for his size. A lot like Wade plays like he is 6' 8" but is not.

How many people do you know that gives an unbiased opinion? The real fact of the matter is, its all opinion. Its not a fact that jordan or another individual player is the best of all time in a TEAM sport. It really comes down what do you enjoy watching as a fan, and how you define what greatness is.