Miscellaneous Stuff

[SFAnthem]

Billingsly out for the year, may need TJ surgery.

That's a tough one for the dogs. He was pitching out of his mind until he went down.

 

[MarcoPolo]

You think he might make it?

Well, he's pitched really well - basically his best (full) pro year, and he did it in AA. He's also has about 150 IP each of the last 3 seasons, so they shouldn't be too worried about adding an extra 15-20 IP in Sep (unless his arm is already tired and it needs the rest). The consensus before the season seemed to be that if he pitched well (and he did) that a Sep callup would be a no-brainer (IIRC).

It's not as if the Giants couldn't use another quality arm as either a long man or just another arm in the pen (what with poor starts from many starters these last 2 weeks). I think that the key issue is that he isn't currently on the 40-man. He'll have to be added before the rule 5 draft in December (there's NO WAY he wouldn't get picked by another team if he wasn't protected).

I think that it comes down to whether the Giants have any future plans for Edlefsen, Loux, Runzler, Machi or Gillaspie (either as "organizational players" in AAA, or possible MLB players, or trade bait this off-season). Well, also whether any of the above pitchers are a better bet to help them this Sep. Gillaspie is likely to get picked off waivers next year if the Giants don't keep him in the majors. Runzler and Edlefsen still have one option left. Machi and Loux I have no idea (but based simply on their age they probably don't have any options left). I was pretty shocked that they called up Machi and added him to the 40-man, honestly.

They can wait to add Heston to the 40-man until after releasing Huff and Mota (and others) in the post-season, thus not risking the loss of any of their prospects to waivers in Sep.

 

[gp956]

Well, he's pitched really well - basically his best (full) pro year, and he did it in AA. He's also has about 150 IP each of the last 3 seasons, so they shouldn't be too worried about adding an extra 15-20 IP in Sep (unless his arm is already tired and it needs the rest). The consensus before the season seemed to be that if he pitched well (and he did) that a Sep callup would be a no-brainer (IIRC).

It's not as if the Giants couldn't use another quality arm as either a long man or just another arm in the pen (what with poor starts from many starters these last 2 weeks). I think that the key issue is that he isn't currently on the 40-man. He'll have to be added before the rule 5 draft in December (there's NO WAY he wouldn't get picked by another team if he wasn't protected).

I think that it comes down to whether the Giants have any future plans for Edlefsen, Loux, Runzler, Machi or Gillaspie (either as "organizational players" in AAA, or possible MLB players, or trade bait this off-season). Well, also whether any of the above pitchers are a better bet to help them this Sep. Gillaspie is likely to get picked off waivers next year if the Giants don't keep him in the majors. Runzler and Edlefsen still have one option left. Machi and Loux I have no idea (but based simply on their age they probably don't have any options left). I was pretty shocked that they called up Machi and added him to the 40-man, honestly.

They can wait to add Heston to the 40-man until after releasing Huff and Mota (and others) in the post-season, thus not risking the loss of any of their prospects to waivers in Sep.

The 40 isn't an issue, says Manny Burriss. But wouldn't calling him up now burn an option year?

 

[MarcoPolo]

The 40 isn't an issue, says Manny Burriss. But wouldn't calling him up now burn an option year?

No, it wouldn't burn an option year. Options are used when sending a player on the 40-man roster TO the minors (in the transaction list, it's listed as "optioning a player to {a particular team in the minors}"). Calling somebody up and ADDING them to the 40-man doesn't use an option.

The reason I didn't mention Manny in the list of "expendables" is because he just got called up, supposedly to be the fast guy on the bench. I'd be surprised if they turned around and DFA'd him immediately. (But I've already been surprised by moves these last few weeks.)

Eric Hacker and Hector Correa were already DFA'd, the list of expendable scrap is getting shorter.

 

[gp956]

No, it wouldn't burn an option year. Options are used when sending a player on the 40-man roster TO the minors (in the transaction list, it's listed as "optioning a player to {a particular team in the minors}"). Calling somebody up and ADDING them to the 40-man doesn't use an option.

The reason I didn't mention Manny in the list of "expendables" is because he just got called up, supposedly to be the fast guy on the bench. I'd be surprised if they turned around and DFA'd him immediately. (But I've already been surprised by moves these last few weeks.)

Eric Hacker and Hector Correa were already DFA'd, the list of expendable scrap is getting shorter.

So adding him now and playing him in September vs. adding him in December does not use an additional option? Interesting. Seems like we'd be getting a player for free.

As for Burriss, my point is that Giants have/had enough flexibility in the 40 to add Burriss for what will surely be an incredible minor role in September. Had they projected a need for Heston, I think he'd already be here. It's not like they weren't considering all their options weeks ago. And should they need to make an emergency move....well there's..... Burriss....again. Kinda cold, I guess, to DFA him twice in one year.

 

[MarcoPolo]

So adding him now and playing him in September vs. adding him in December does not use an additional option? Interesting. Seems like we'd be getting a player for free.

The "option" is used when sending a guy on the 40-man to the minors. Any player on the 40-man is an "MLB" player, represented by the player's association, and covered by the CBA. An "option" is sending a major league player "on optional assignment" to the minors. A team "generally" gets to do that in 3 different seasons before a player must pass through waivers. (There's an exception where a player can get a 4th option.) Perfect example of this is Conor Gillaspie, in fact. He was drafted in 2008, and placed on the 40-man in Sep '08 when he was called up to the majors (NOT using an option). He was then optioned to the minors in 09, 10, 11, and 12 (he was in the "exception" case, where he had 4 option years). Next year he will have to pass through waivers to be assigned to the minors.

 

[calsnowskier]

The "option" is used when sending a guy on the 40-man to the minors. Any player on the 40-man is an "MLB" player, represented by the player's association, and covered by the CBA. An "option" is sending a major league player "on optional assignment" to the minors. A team "generally" gets to do that in 3 different seasons before a player must pass through waivers. (There's an exception where a player can get a 4th option.) Perfect example of this is Conor Gillaspie, in fact. He was drafted in 2008, and placed on the 40-man in Sep '08 when he was called up to the majors (NOT using an option). He was then optioned to the minors in 09, 10, 11, and 12 (he was in the "exception" case, where he had 4 option years). Next year he will have to pass through waivers to be assigned to the minors.

AND be removed from tdhe 40. If this happens, I would be surprised if he chides to stay with the org. There isn't much for him here.

 

[MarcoPolo]

No, he doesn't have to be removed from the 40-man.

 

[SFGRTB]

Kershaw scratched from tonight's start. Must be an issue if its against us.

 

[calsnowskier]

No, he doesn't have to be removed from the 40-man.

First, sorry for that mangled post of mine. The iPad can really destroy posts on occasion...

Second, the giants will not be able to send Gonnor down next year without his OK. He is out of options. If they want to send him down, they would need to DFA him, and then he would need to accept th assignment. I would expect him to clear waivers, but I do not expect him to accept the assignment.

 

[Mays-Fan]

That's a tough one for the dogs. He was pitching out of his mind until he went down.

Adam Kennedy out for the year as well.

 

[MarcoPolo]

First, sorry for that mangled post of mine. The iPad can really destroy posts on occasion...

Second, the giants will not be able to send Gonnor down next year without his OK. He is out of options. If they want to send him down, they would need to DFA him, and then he would need to accept th assignment. I would expect him to clear waivers, but I do not expect him to accept the assignment.

That isn't the way it works. He wouldn't need to be DFA'd. And even if he was DFA'd, they wouldn't need his OK; only guys with 3+ years of MLB service time can refuse a first outright assignment to the minors. (An outright assignment removes the player from the 40-man.)

1- He will be out of options next season.
2- The giants will not be able to send Gillaspie down next year without him making it through waivers.
3- If no team claims Gillaspie, then he stays on the 40-man and goes to the minors.

Conner has *no* say in the matter. (well, unless he quits pro baseball.) Gillaspie can stay in the minors for years with no say in the matter, so long as he remains on the 40-man and he passes through waivers every year with no team claiming him.

Now, the waivers in this "he's out of options" case are *revocable*, meaning that the Giants don't automatically lose the player if somebody claims him. They can just pull him back off of waivers if he is claimed - but then he must stay in the majors. Or they can try and get a deal in place with the team that put in the claim, and trade him. Or, they can just release him (or give him to the team that claimed him in the first place). But Connor has NO say whatsoever in any of this - his OK isn't needed. (In comparison, when a player is DFA'd, the player is put on "irrevocable outright waivers" and if a team claims him, he is gone.) When a player is claimed (and lost to another team) via waiver claim, the new team must place him on *their* 40-man roster (or DFA him). If the new team wants to send him to their minor league system, the player will have to pass through waivers again for the new team, and the process starts over.

The Giants *could* DFA Gillaspie, but that wouldn't be required for him to return to Fresno next season. A team DFA's a player when they have to make room on the 40-man roster immediately. The rules are stricter and more confining when DFAing a player, so it's better to try and sneak him through waivers late in Spring Training (if they don't need the spot on the 40-man roster before that).

 

[SFGRTB]

Who says the Giants are old school:

New Sportvision technology could unlock Holy Grail of baseball metrics

Finally, there may be hope in finding a good stat to judge fielding. It doesn't specifically say the Giants use this, but it says "The FIELDf/x technology, first implemented at AT&T Park in San Francisco last season, uses three additional cameras to track each fielder’s every move"... So they more than likely use it.

 

[gp956]

Never cared much for Susan Slusser's work as a sportswriter, but she has shown some tremendous niipplage on the MLB network. Nice pokies.

 

[tzill]

Never cared much for Susan Slusser's work as a sportswriter, but she has shown some tremendous niipplage on the MLB network. Nice pokies.

 

[tzill]

AB: NEWSFLASH, STAT FREAKS: THE ONLY WAY BELT WILL HIT 2ND IS IF YOU PUT HIM THERE ON YOUR BASEBALL VIDEO GAME FOR COLECOVISION.

 

[SFGRTB]

Almost looks like Susan Slusser

 

[tzill]

Never cared much for Susan Slusser's work as a sportswriter, but she has shown some tremendous niipplage on the MLB network. Nice pokies.

AB: SLUSSER IS ONE OF SHULMAN'S PEOPLE...LONELY, IN THE GARGE POUNDING AWAY AT A LAPTOP AND KNEE DEEP IN EGG MCMUFFIN WRAPPERS.

 

[calsnowskier]

That isn't the way it works. He wouldn't need to be DFA'd. And even if he was DFA'd, they wouldn't need his OK; only guys with 3+ years of MLB service time can refuse a first outright assignment to the minors. (An outright assignment removes the player from the 40-man.)

1- He will be out of options next season.
2- The giants will not be able to send Gillaspie down next year without him making it through waivers.
3- If no team claims Gillaspie, then he stays on the 40-man and goes to the minors.

Conner has *no* say in the matter. (well, unless he quits pro baseball.) Gillaspie can stay in the minors for years with no say in the matter, so long as he remains on the 40-man and he passes through waivers every year with no team claiming him.

Now, the waivers in this "he's out of options" case are *revocable*, meaning that the Giants don't automatically lose the player if somebody claims him. They can just pull him back off of waivers if he is claimed - but then he must stay in the majors. Or they can try and get a deal in place with the team that put in the claim, and trade him. Or, they can just release him (or give him to the team that claimed him in the first place). But Connor has NO say whatsoever in any of this - his OK isn't needed. (In comparison, when a player is DFA'd, the player is put on "irrevocable outright waivers" and if a team claims him, he is gone.) When a player is claimed (and lost to another team) via waiver claim, the new team must place him on *their* 40-man roster (or DFA him). If the new team wants to send him to their minor league system, the player will have to pass through waivers again for the new team, and the process starts over.

The Giants *could* DFA Gillaspie, but that wouldn't be required for him to return to Fresno next season. A team DFA's a player when they have to make room on the 40-man roster immediately. The rules are stricter and more confining when DFAing a player, so it's better to try and sneak him through waivers late in Spring Training (if they don't need the spot on the 40-man roster before that).

I do not ever remember anyone going to the minors in this fashion. Do you have an example of a Giant player who was sent to the minors after his options were out?

 

[MarcoPolo]

I do not ever remember anyone going to the minors in this fashion. Do you have an example of a Giant player who was sent to the minors after his options were out?

Can't think of a single example. But then the Giants generally have the problem of having too many people on the roster and not enough slots - that's why they use the "DFA" and "adding a minor leaguer to the 60-day DL" so often (they need to immediately make room on the roster for somebody else because it's full). The Giants tend to lose quite a few players to other teams each year because of it.

If you don't believe me, use google and search for "transaction rules" or "transaction glossary". Read the info on what "options" are, and what happens when no options are left. Before Cot's moved to BP it had a pretty good transaction section - it may still be there.