Mike Trout

[DragonfromTO]

He's a great player but so was Ryan Howard once upon a time.

Lots of things can go wrong but if they don't he has a chance to be an all time great.

I'm not sure that a player that didn't "break through" until he was 26 and had most of his value tied up in one particular skill is a good comparison point for a guy like Trout, who has had about the exact "opposite" path to stardom.

 

[navamind]

He's a great player but so was Ryan Howard once upon a time.

Lots of things can go wrong but if they don't he has a chance to be an all time great.

Howard only had about one "great" year (2006). 2007 and 2009 may have been great offensive years for him (he was in the top 10 in the NL in OPS+ those years), but he lost a decent amount of value from baserunning/defense.

I'm not sure that a player that didn't "break through" until he was 26 and had most of his value tied up in one particular skill is a good comparison point for a guy like Trout, who has had about the exact "opposite" path to stardom.

Absolutely this. Only thing Howard really had going for him was his historically good power. And as a result (that and being in a pretty good lineup), pitchers pitched around him and he got on base. But now Howard's only a decent power hitter that can't get on base, run or field.

 

[Loneranger]

Trout has over 200 runs, over 60 hrs, over 80 sbs and almost 200 rbis, by the age of 21..

Are we seeing one of the best hitters to ever play the game? granted, a lot of years left but also nobody has started off at this pace.

the talent is without question so this boils down to the person. Does he WANT to be one of the all time greats? Does he have it between the ears to accomplish this ? I say he will become an alltime great because he knows he can and he wants to. The Bryce Harper comparison days are over for good. Trout is on another level from everyone and I bet he maintains that for a long ass time to come.

 

[navamind]

the talent is without question so this boils down to the person. Does he WANT to be one of the all time greats? Does he have it between the ears to accomplish this ? I say he will become an alltime great because he knows he can and he wants to. The Bryce Harper comparison days are over for good. Trout is on another level from everyone and I bet he maintains that for a long ass time to come.

the funny part about that is, some people seem to think being incomparable to Mike Trout means that Harper sucks. Which couldn't be further from the truth. Harper's been quite good (especially when you factor in age)... but Trout's been historically good.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

the funny part about that is, some people seem to think being incomparable to Mike Trout means that Harper sucks. Which couldn't be further from the truth. Harper's been quite good (especially when you factor in age)... but Trout's been historically good.

Harper has been good, but nothing special... Trout is on pace to be in discussion for best player of all time... Harper is not even on pace to be a HOF...

I agree with Loneranger, that he will be his own biggest obstacle in being one of the great ones... That and of course injury... But the thing I am most impressed with is the fact that he walks a nice amount... He is one of the best OBP players in baseball, and that is not even counting the fact he hits for HRs and steals bases... This shows me that even if he slows down in one of his main statistics(likely SBs), he will still be a great player...

 

[navamind]

Harper has been good, but nothing special... Trout is on pace to be in discussion for best player of all time... Harper is not even on pace to be a HOF...

I agree with Loneranger, that he will be his own biggest obstacle in being one of the great ones... That and of course injury... But the thing I am most impressed with is the fact that he walks a nice amount... He is one of the best OBP players in baseball, and that is not even counting the fact he hits for HRs and steals bases... This shows me that even if he slows down in one of his main statistics(likely SBs), he will still be a great player...

Of course he isn't. How many players were ever on a HOF pace by the age of 21?

Harper isn't on a HOF pace by any means. But not many players make it to the majors at the age of 19. And even fewer of them actually have any success at that kind of age. His age-19 season compares very favorably to guys like Ott and Griffey Jr.

He could end up being another Pete Reiser. A guy that had the talent, but was plagued by injuries. We'll just have to see.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Of course he isn't. How many players were ever on a HOF pace by the age of 21?

yes, I was just commenting to how night and day Trout and harper is... Harper is not even one of my top 5 OF picks in who I would want to start a team around, for now and the future...

Top 3 is obvious: Trout, then either Stanton or mcCutchen

 

[navamind]

yes, I was just commenting to how night and day Trout and harper is... Harper is not even one of my top 5 OF picks in who I would want to start a team around, for now and the future...

Just curious, who would they be?

If I was picking players only 25 and under, Harper would be up there for me (behind Trout and Stanton, and maybe another guy or two I'm blanking on).

Would definitely build a team around McCutchen, but he is turning 28 in October.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Harper might not even be my top 10!!

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Didn't realize how old McCutchen is for this, but I would still start my team with him over Harper, and some other under 30s over harper...

But lets start with 27 or under

1. Mike trout
2. Gioncarlo Stanton
3. Yasiel Puig
4. Justin Upton

then the under 30's I would take before Harper

1. Andrew McCutchen
2. Carlos Gomez

Not sure about the new rookies like springer, polanco and tavarez, but it is not like harper has proven much more than any of them yet...

I will admit though I was a little to quick to say not top 10...

 

[navamind]

Didn't realize how old McCutchen is for this, but I would still start my team with him over Harper, and some other under 30s over harper...

But lets start with 27 or under

1. Mike trout
2. Gioncarlo Stanton
3. Yasiel Puig
4. Justin Upton

then the under 30's I would take before Harper

1. Andrew McCutchen
2. Carlos Gomez

Not sure about the new rookies like springer, polanco and tavarez, but it is not like harper has proven much more than any of them yet...

I will admit though I was a little to quick to say not top 10...

I agree with 5 of the 6, not so sure about Upton. He's only had about one or two really good years (2011 and 2009). Outside of that, he's been kinda average. I think Trout will be the best of the bunch, but I could see Puig becoming a better hitter than Trout in a few years.

I love Springer's tools, but the contact issues are worrisome. If he can cut down on the Ks and make better contact, he could end up being a star. He could end up being another Chris Young (solid player, but his low BA kept him from being really good). It's too early to compare any of them to Harper (who has 279 games under his belt).

Gomez is a good one. It took him a while for the power to breakout, but better late than never. Gomez has been starting to walk more too, though I'm not sure how many of those walks have been semi-intentional. But if Gomez can add OBP to the rest of his tools, then you have yourself a pretty great player.

 

[navamind]

As for McCutchen, he's a top 5 player right now.

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

Harper has been good, but nothing special... Trout is on pace to be in discussion for best player of all time... Harper is not even on pace to be a HOF...

Trout has been the best player in baseball since he came up but "on pace to be in discussion for best player of all time" after 400 games is a lot like being on pace to be the greatest team ever after one week of baseball. He has been nothing short of phenomenal but let's not go crazy describing a 22 year old kid.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I agree with 5 of the 6, not so sure about Upton. He's only had about one or two really good years (2011 and 2009). Outside of that, he's been kinda average. I think Trout will be the best of the bunch, but I could see Puig becoming a better hitter than Trout in a few years.

I love Springer's tools, but the contact issues are worrisome. If he can cut down on the Ks and make better contact, he could end up being a star. He could end up being another Chris Young (solid player, but his low BA kept him from being really good). It's too early to compare any of them to Harper (who has 279 games under his belt).

Gomez is a good one. It took him a while for the power to breakout, but better late than never. Gomez has been starting to walk more too, though I'm not sure how many of those walks have been semi-intentional. But if Gomez can add OBP to the rest of his tools, then you have yourself a pretty great player.

Gomez is the best or 2nd best defensive CF in baseball, the fact that he is becoming one of the better hitters in baseball too is just a huge bonus...

Justin Upton, who was your one "not sure", he is only 26... and he has had one great season, and is off to a very good one this season... Again, what has harper done yet?? His hype is still only based on his potential... His actual major league stats are Nothing special... He is only 21, so even though he has been a little injury plagued in his career, he is still seen to be an elite future talent...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Trout has been the best player in baseball since he came up but "on pace to be in discussion for best player of all time" after 400 games is a lot like being on pace to be the greatest team ever after one week of baseball. He has been nothing short of phenomenal but let's not go crazy describing a 22 year old kid.

I do agree, that it is too early to say it... But when he has given 2+ seasons like he has, at such a young age, with the tools he has shown it is easy to imagine... And isn't that what this whole thread is about??

 

[navamind]

Gomez is the best or 2nd best defensive CF in baseball, the fact that he is becoming one of the better hitters in baseball too is just a huge bonus...

Justin Upton, who was your one "not sure", he is only 26... and he has had one great season, and is off to a very good one this season... Again, what has harper done yet?? His hype is still only based on his potential... His actual major league stats are Nothing special... He is only 21, so even though he has been a little injury plagued in his career, he is still seen to be an elite future talent...

Harper's rookie year was one of the greatest age-19 seasons ever (and even finished just outside the top 10 in the NL in WAR) and he had a 134 OPS+ last year.

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

I do agree, that it is too early to say it... But when he has given 2+ seasons like he has, at such a young age, with the tools he has shown it is easy to imagine... And isn't that what this whole thread is about??

I think you're kidding yourself with how "easy" it is to imagine.

A real lot of things will have to go very right for Mike Trout just to make the Hall of Fame one day.

 

[da55bums]

I think you're kidding yourself with how "easy" it is to imagine.

A real lot of things will have to go very right for Mike Trout just to make the Hall of Fame one day.

no kidding, but nobody ever in the history of baseball as started out like this.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Of course he isn't. How many players were ever on a HOF pace by the age of 21?

Harper isn't on a HOF pace by any means. But not many players make it to the majors at the age of 19. And even fewer of them actually have any success at that kind of age. His age-19 season compares very favorably to guys like Ott and Griffey Jr.

He could end up being another Pete Reiser. A guy that had the talent, but was plagued by injuries. We'll just have to see.

There are 18 players who had more WAR than Harper through their age 21 seasons (21 or younger on July 31). Here's the list. HOFers are bolded, players who haven't come up for election yet have an asterisk

Trout*
Ott
Cobb
Griffey Jr.*
Kaline
Hornsby
A-Rod*
Foxx
Frank Robinson
Mantle
Ted Williams
Pinson
Magee
Cedeno
Andruw Jones*
Vaughan
Bench
Mathews

 

[navamind]

There are 18 players who had more WAR than Harper through their age 21 seasons (21 or younger on July 31). Here's the list. HOFers are bolded, players who haven't come up for election yet have an asterisk

Trout*
Ott
Cobb
Griffey Jr.*
Kaline
Hornsby
A-Rod*
Foxx
Frank Robinson
Mantle
Ted Williams
Pinson
Magee
Cedeno
Andruw Jones*
Vaughan
Bench
Mathews

Even the worst of that bunch were HOF caliber players, but didn't age so well.