Mike Shanahan

[Sharkinva]

Shark, I get that. But my point is it is way too early to claim he is a bust. If he turns into a top 5 qb for us for 7-10 years, would the trade have been worth it? All I ask is that you view his predicament through the lens of all most all good QBs. His production is very similar to most of the best through their first couple of years. Inconsistent. Even those that came from pro style offenses had trouble adapting to the complexities and speed of the NFL. Give him another year.

If we had given up what MOST teams give up for a top flight QB, then yes you view him on that scale. But we have basically given up what it would take to get TWO top flight QBs, a decent to good DT, (last years pick), and another starter. For what we gave up, you would justifiably expect more. And average just doesnt cut it. We paid for a Ferrari, and got a Corvette so far.

 

[j_y19]

If we had given up what MOST teams give up for a top flight QB, then yes you view him on that scale. But we have basically given up what it would take to get TWO top flight QBs, a decent to good DT, (last years pick), and another starter. For what we gave up, you would justifiably expect more. And average just doesnt cut it. We paid for a Ferrari, and got a Corvette so far.

And that's where I think you are unfair. It's too early to say he's not a Ferrari. Look at the numbers for Peyton or brees or Aikman or most any of the greats. They all started off terrible. He regressed this year and needs to develop pocket passing skills. But there is no evidence to say he can't get there. In fact, if you objectively look at his capabilities, intelligence, and work ethic, it would be foolish to bet against him, IMO.

 

[Sharkinva]

And that's where I think you are unfair. It's too early to say he's not a Ferrari. Look at the numbers for Peyton or brees or Aikman or most any of the greats. They all started off terrible. He regressed this year and needs to develop pocket passing skills. But there is no evidence to say he can't get there. In fact, if you objectively look at his capabilities, intelligence, and work ethic, it would be foolish to bet against him, IMO.

OK.. my bad, we paid for TWO Ferrari's a Corvette and a decently equipped F-150, and we might have one Ferrari. Key word is might. Sure he might be an elite QB some day, but he could also be Vick, Carr, Ware or Harrington. Would you give up what we did for any of those guys?? He is always compared to the greats, but reality is you would be hard pressed to find a block buster trade that has worked out for the team getting the player. Which is why i say for what we gave up to get him, if he isnt a first ballot hall of famer with multiple Super Bowl wins, the trade was a failure.

 

[Sportster 72]

I agree although I was not for the trade it is too early to call the trade a bust. To equal what we gave up to get him (4 picks) he has to be an exceptional QB not a pretty good QB.

In the end I think the truth is going to lie somewhere in between his accomplishments in his first two years. Not quite as good as year one but not as bad as year two.

My initial concern for his injury last year was the lost time at getting better. Watching him this year he has looked like a guy who has survived on great athletic talent his entire life. His pocket presence is horrendous right now. Cousins who has no where near the athletic skills is clearly a guy who grew up in a conventional style offense. All we can do is wait to see if he can learn how to be a better drop QB.

The last question is all conjecture and we have no idea what the truth is but let's hope he and his dad aren't coach killers. Sadly this smacks of Dannyism and scares the hell out of me. If that is the case this will all end badly.

If we get 90% of the QB from year one I will be pleased. If he struggles again next year it doesn't look good.

 

[j_y19]

OK.. my bad, we paid for TWO Ferrari's a Corvette and a decently equipped F-150, and we might have one Ferrari. Key word is might. Sure he might be an elite QB some day, but he could also be Vick, Carr, Ware or Harrington. Would you give up what we did for any of those guys?? He is always compared to the greats, but reality is you would be hard pressed to find a block buster trade that has worked out for the team getting the player. Which is why i say for what we gave up to get him, if he isnt a first ballot hall of famer with multiple Super Bowl wins, the trade was a failure.

Of course I wouldn't give up what we gave for those guys. And rg3 might turn out to be them. I feel it's just too early to make that dire claim, given what history tells us of young QBs. I do agree that for what we paid, he needs to be an elite QB for an extended period. I just haven't seen anything yet to say he can't be. Now if he got here and had work ethic issues, or mental challenges, or had off field issues, then I'd be worried. But he doesn't. He still has a gun of an arm, albeit he needs to fix some bad habits with his mechanics that developed as a result of his injury. He still at excellent speed. He still is highly intelligent. Finally, the kid will work. He will put in the hours to improve himself. Now he just needs the right coaching to focus that work.

 

[FLSkinsfan]

For years we complained that we did not have a QB that could play at a professional level. We said that if we get that position that we would be contenders. 2012 proved those statements. The problem with this year was that RG3 did not have the offseason to improve his game. I was all about getting ready for the season. Maybe that was wrong, but if he puts even half of that effort into learning his craft this offseason then I think 2014 (for the QB play) will be better, and we will need to fix the turnover issues as well. As far as defense is concerned, we need to keep the good players we have an fill what ever holes we can. We have some good young talent that just needs to step up and play better.


This is not just a one sided problem. Offense or Defense. It is a mindset problem. We look good for a series or a quarter, but then for some unknown reason the wheels come off. I think getting a new DC and a ST coach with help the Defensive side of the ball and a more mature RG3 with a good offseason of work should fix most of the issues on the offense. Now add a couple of good players to this roster and we are back to contention like in 2012.

 

[Sleepy T]

I will start by saying that NO ONE individual is worth 4 starters. Now, with that being said, a team will very rarely go deep in the playoffs with an average QB...teams won't even sniff it with less than average QB play. The value of a stellar QB is priceless in most owners/FO minds. I think we gave up too much for RG, but I think he can be a Top 5 QB who can take us to the promised land.

 

[Blunt8384]

So F. Davis went from one of THEIR best players at the position to not even being in the game plan because he's not one of THEIR best players at the position when Reed went down?? BTW; one of the chief complaints against this seasons team has been THEIR inability to adjust to what's happening during games. This is a direct result of having a system that is inflexible. No one promotes not having a system, just one that can accommodate and be effective with any given personnel changes.

I have NO DOUBT that P. Garcon would absolutely kill IF this team had Stud WR opposite him, this is also why he is a number 2 by NFL standards. You've just said to me that (and I quote) "As for Garcon, I belive you put another good WR on the other side of him and see how much more effective he looks. He is killing it while beating double teams" Shouldn't he then make whoever is on the other side much better??? Especially since he's commanding double teams, which has not been the case most of the season!!! Scandrick shut him down.

We do agree on the whole cap hell thing and the 3-5 year building process. The media here is like anywhere...everyone likes a winner, losers get flushed (metaphorically).

Lastly I think that the whole offense has changed under Kirk thing relates to the team not running the read-option with him, but again this speaks to coaching. If Kirk runs your system better than RGIII without the read-option (as some are saying) then play him......period. If the read-option is an integral part of your scheme and RGIII runs it better..........stop the comparisons!!!

Remember when Sanana was the #1 in 2005, he continually beat double teams but that didn't really increase the production of the receiver opposit him. Is steve smith a #1?

 

[Lonewate44]

I think it is too early to say for certain if we overpaid....


during and after his rookie year, we were all bowing to his greatness, and didn't think we spent too much...

Now after his sophmore season we have????

As was stated before, many players from lots of positions have the sophmore jinx.....It is REAL!!! and RGIII definetly was bitten by it.....

I believe as others do, that with a full offseason to work on the defeciencies he has, RGIII will come out next year a much improved player......

Look, we as Skins fans have been around long enough to have seen the half assed QBs that have been paraded out in front of us, and we knew they were laking, and as such, our team was lacking....

We always had a good to great Defense to keep us close, but our offense ALWAYS let us down....We used to say....if only.....if only we had a legit Franchise QB......

Well...we saw him sitting there, a guy that could be that Franchise QB....We made the deal, and looked like we had a return on our investment last year....we hit the bumps this year, and it just shows....When he is on.....he can carry this team (like a franchse QB can) but when not.....ALL of our defecencies are exposed.......

Lets see what we get next year...The guy the can carry his team, or the one that is part of the problem...If after next year, and he stinks up the joint, I will gladly admitt that we overspent......If however his play is MUCH improved, and he is heading in the direction fo Franchse QB again, I will say we didnt overspend.....

I am sick of the rex grossmans, Becks, wuerfuls.......

 

[skinsdad62]

My issue is this

At 1st we have a debate on which is more important the o/line or a franchise qb . for years i said you could compete for superbowls and win with an avg qb . flacco is an example of this .

but fans didnt want that . they wanted the franchise qb who makes everyone better and covers up for bad o/lines etc .

i said , hey if you do that it will cost , most likely gutting 2 drafts , but the response was it didnt matter the franchise qb would be the panacea for all things we had trade up proposals for sanchez and we had trade up proposals for bradford and every other flavor of the day qb

i said it will cost , but no we must have the franchise guy and gutting the draft be damned was the retort

well we did that with the Rg3 trade and now we have buyers remorse setting in even though the team did exactly what you all stood up on the table and pined for

we got the wrong guy was the refrain . never mind that we also would have picked a scrub up if we were in charge and stuck to our alleged ideals

i said over and over to be a consistent winner you must build up the LOS , then get the qb but alas we took the other route and after that we bemoan the fact that we could have had better if we had done this or that .

you guys had suffered 20 years of futility and you couldnt be reasoned with

now we have our guy but we cant wait for him to grow . we want to hitch our waggon to an avg qb because by god he looks better now .

we talk about having kuechly even though we never would have drafted him 6th overall and we bemoan the 3 other sure fire stars we could have had

RG3 is a huge talent . if we are patient with him we could compete for super bowls but now we have to put a viable team around him

can you guys do that ? the next 2 seasons should be spent getting a solid LOS put together and some playmakers around the guy

maybe we could get a center who can snap the ball back quicker (monty sucks at this ) and a center who can actually make line calls (an asset he allegedly had )

maybe we could build a defense that doesnt make a qb have to put up 31 points a game just to break even

i dont care what qb you have back there . you cant win without a solid LOS and a decent defense .

so maybe we should stop crying about what could have been and focus on what we have and where we need to go we have some pieces , now we have to add some more

 

[Lonewate44]

I don't know if you were speaking to me....or at me...or not...but I will say this......


I DON'T have buyers Remorse...

I am thankful for a guy I believe to be a Franchise QB....that can elevate his game...elevate the play of those around him....... I was happy with the deal when it happened, and that has not waived.....So we are giving a real hi pick for the last pick......It has happened before (been years) but has happened before.....I saw enough of his Rookie year to believe in him that he will work his ass off to be a better QB (which I believe he would have done had he not been rehabbing the injury)...that next year this time......the craziness of calling it a bad deal etc....will be a bad memory!!

I agree we need to fortify the LOS to protect this investment!!!

I believe we will via FA and the draft....

I also believe resources will be spent on the Defense as well (as it needs to be) ...But I believe getting a better DC would do wonders for our defense as well.....

 

[Krusheasy]

b u m p

 

[Krusheasy]

I will start by saying that NO ONE individual is worth 4 starters. Now, with that being said, a team will very rarely go deep in the playoffs with an average QB...teams won't even sniff it with less than average QB play. The value of a stellar QB is priceless in most owners/FO minds. I think we gave up too much for RG, but I think he can be a Top 5 QB who can take us to the promised land.

If he can win a super bowl ... then no price is too steep.

 

[Sharkinva]

If he can win a super bowl ... then no price is too steep.

One would make the trade bearable. Two would make it well worth the price to do business.

 

[Lonewate44]

One would make the trade bearable. Two would make it well worth the price to do business.

Luckily we have time to build the team around our franchise guy so that he can Deliver!!!

 

[skinsdad62]

I don't know if you were speaking to me....or at me...or not...but I will say this......


I DON'T have buyers Remorse...

I am thankful for a guy I believe to be a Franchise QB....that can elevate his game...elevate the play of those around him....... I was happy with the deal when it happened, and that has not waived.....So we are giving a real hi pick for the last pick......It has happened before (been years) but has happened before.....I saw enough of his Rookie year to believe in him that he will work his ass off to be a better QB (which I believe he would have done had he not been rehabbing the injury)...that next year this time......the craziness of calling it a bad deal etc....will be a bad memory!!

I agree we need to fortify the LOS to protect this investment!!!

I believe we will via FA and the draft....

I also believe resources will be spent on the Defense as well (as it needs to be) ...But I believe getting a better DC would do wonders for our defense as well.....

nope i am not

 

[martinez]

i had texans over skins in the sb lol. how dare you bump this

 

[skinsdad62]

patience

Patience!

this is what we need . we need to get away from shortcuts we need to value our draft picks , and build a solid LOS on both sides of the ball

we should stay away from any FA who is over the age of 28 . we may need to have a lot of dead cap space to get rid of dead weight .

we need a revised scouting dept . we need a gm to supervise that .

we need to get away from gimmick coaches and recycled retreads

a bill o brien is a college coach we can use because of his nfl experience but i prefer we look at some NFL assistants

resist the urge to target a cowher or John gruden or dungy and develop our own coach with a good upper management system in place

and most of all we need a fan base that will stop troubleshooting every move a guy makes . our press corp is among the NFL's worst . they dont support the team and look to shoot down everything a coach wants to do if it doesnt fit their personal agendas

how about setting aside their hatred of snyder and get back to reporting ? why do we need another off season of mike wise telling us the name is a slur

i dont want a mouth piece for the organization but i would like a touch of fairness

how about a fan base that cheers for the team and not for their point of view "being right " ? these bloggers are the number one guilty party when it comes to that

 

[Krusheasy]

HTTR 24/7 interview Jason La Confora

some good information here about the Redskins GM & football operations possibilities ... also discuss HC and field conditions

[SOUNDCLOUD]https://soundcloud.com/krusheasy/httr24_7-interviews?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=twitter[/SOUNDCLOUD]

 

[Sportster 72]

All these things in theory sound good. When have we seen any of this under Snyder's ownership? Dan has hired three good coaches, guys that could win, did win to some extent but I think he interfered enough to make it not work as well as it could have all three times.

Why would any of us think this organization under Snyder will all the sudden change and run like Baltimore or New England? We haven't seen anything like that here. We were under the impression that Shanahan was in control here but I'd say it looks like Dan has interfered again.

I thought 4 years ago when people quit showing up to the stadium and all the fallout at that time that Dan was going to change his stripes but it appears obvious to me that isn't the case and I have no expectations that will change. Everyone will get excited at our off season moves again this year but within three years I am afraid we will have the same old problems. That's this teams MO under Snyder.

While I am typing this Marvin Lewis just popped up on the TV screen. Imagine him as head coach of our team with no interfence. He ran out of here after one year and I don't think Dan could have given him enough money to come back.