Michael Jordan Documentary.

[nuraman00]

ESPN will air the uncensored version, edited version will be on ESPN 2.

ESPN Plans Two Versions of ‘Last Dance’ Michael Jordan Documentary – Variety

First two parts will air Sunday evening.

 

[MHSL82]

Banned.

 

[MHSL82]

 

[nuraman00]

I apologize for the bad thread title.

This is a Chicago Bulls documentary, not a Michael Jordan documentary.

I either didn't know, or didn't remember, Pippen requesting a trade. I wonder if I can find references to it in my NBA Inside Stuff magazines. I'm not going to look for it now, but the next time I do, I'll look for issues in November and December 1997.

Did Cartwright really fit the Bulls better than Oakley? Did he help more against Ewing, Olajuwon, Laimbeer, Parish, Smits, Robinson, Duckworth, Eaton?

 

[nuraman00]

However, overall, between having read Sam Smith's book (The Jordan Rules); Rodman's book; and Phil Jackson's book, I don't think I've really learned anything new.

I guess the part about Pippen demanding a trade, but it's probably one of those things I knew but forgot. Or one of those things that when I read in the newspaper at the time, I thought was just one of those exaggerated headlines, and I didn't think it would really happen.

 

[MHSL82]

Had to work Sunday but was able to catch the first two episodes of the documentary on DVR, and with Chicago being my closest NBA city, I can honestly say I was not surprised by a whole lot. That said I did not realize Pippen was such a problem child that last year...

The quote from Jason Caffey on his two and a half seasons with the team:

“That’s why I thank Michael, I thank Phil, I thank Dennis, Steve Kerr,” Caffey said. “Coming in under Michael and Scottie, I’m not saying I took the good from those guys and went out and did good, but the things that I did take from them — that ‘never quit’ attitude — has helped me sustain my life.”

Former Bull Jason Caffey opens up about his battles with depression, anxiety

Caffey came though with the game-winner in the game below, on an unconventional play at the rim with one second to go in overtime:


I myself was a couple weeks shy of my 10th birthday at the time, and this particular game was the first time I knew overtime was a thing and that goaltending was a thing. Less than a month later, Caffey would be traded to the shitbag Warriors, a team coming off the Sprewell choking scandal earlier in the season, for a pair of second rounders. While nothing is conclusive with it being 22 years ago, I'm pretty sure Jordan was not a fan of the trade.

Such a terrible teammate he was to side with his guy after he got traded.

As for the Nets, 1997-98 was their first year with that particular uniform scheme, with Kerry Kittles, Keith Van Horn, and Lucious Harris sticking around for their finals run four years later.

Saw this and wanted to share it with you @nuraman00 .

I prefer championships one through four from Jordan over the last two. :P

 

[nuraman00]

Saw this and wanted to share it with you @nuraman00 .

I prefer championships one through four from Jordan over the last two. :P

Thanks. I don't think I've seen a game end on a goaltend before.

Good info about Caffey.

I liked Kittles and Lucious Harris.

I liked Van Horn when he was in Philadelphia years later. He was probably the best forward Iverson played with in Philadelphia. I can't believe they traded Van Horn to Milwaukee, after the success they were having. They also traded Van Horn when he in the middle of vacationing at Disney World with his kids.

I would prefer if Jordan championships 1-4 became 0 to 0.

 

[MHSL82]

Thanks. I don't think I've seen a game end on a goaltend before.

Good info about Caffey.

I liked Kittles and Lucious Harris.

I liked Van Horn when he was in Philadelphia years later. He was probably the best forward Iverson played with in Philadelphia. I can't believe they traded Van Horn to Milwaukee, after the success they were having. They also traded Van Horn when he in the middle of vacationing at Disney World with his kids.

I would prefer if Jordan championships 1-4 became 0 to 0.

Van Horn was part of the Jason Kidd trade were he had to, according to reports, convince the league that he was making a bona fide return to the NBA. He was paid the rest of his contract and supposedly sat on the bench for a while. I never saw him suited up. I even looked for it on Google because it was like someone coming out of retirement but I never saw it. The reason I was interested was because he played for the University of Utah.

 

[nuraman00]

That's right, that was funny about Van Horn.

 

[nuraman00]

I kind of wish I hadn't skipped to the ending of that game. This would have been a good time to watch the whole game.

If someone had just said, "there's a surprising ending, but I suggest you watch the whole game", then that would have been even more fun.

 

[nuraman00]

Will Purdue was on the radio.

He said in 1989, the Pistons were better than the Bulls.

In 1990, he thinks the Bulls might have been better on paper, but that the Pistons had the mental edge.

He says in 1991, when the Bulls showed that they didn't react to anything the Bulls did, not even Rodman's foul on Pippen, that showed that the Bulls had gained the mental edge then.

 

[nuraman00]

In episode 4, I learned a few things, such as seeing Phil Jackson playing for the Knicks. And seeing him coach Puerto Rico.

In episode 5, I learned even more, such as how his shoe deal came about. Funny that Adidas and Converse were his first choices. He didn't even want to go to the Nike meeting, his Mom made him go.

Also, that Converse commercial with many NBA players, finishing with Larry Bird, was really cheesy.

And yeah, his agent was the one to market him like a tennis player.

 

[MHSL82]

In episode 4, I learned a few things, such as seeing Phil Jackson playing for the Knicks. And seeing him coach Puerto Rico.

In episode 5, I learned even more, such as how his shoe deal came about. Funny that Adidas and Converse were his first choices. He didn't even want to go to the Nike meeting, his Mom made him go.

Also, that Converse commercial with many NBA players, finishing with Larry Bird, was really cheesy.

And yeah, his agent was the one to market him like a tennis player.

To be fair, he may have made Adidas or Converse the alternate universe Nike; right now, it seems like a fortunate decision by Jordan‘s mom to make him go to Nike. But he had not gone to Nike and Nike floundered and then Converse signed him, we will be talking about the Converse ads. I’m sure Nike personnel made some good decisions to further his brand, but he is Mike. And knowing that he was the biggest sports figure in the world let them boldly do whatever they did. Would they do that with Pete Sampras? Didn’t even do it with Magic.

My examples above are a comparison for name only because Pete Sampras won a lot and so did Magic but they weren’t as big as Mike. Would they have done the same type of marketing strategy with them? I think that San Francisco person is apples to oranges because basketball is more popular but my point is Jordan was big. Maybe Converse could’ve used it, too?

 

[nuraman00]

To be fair, he may have made Adidas or Converse the alternate universe Nike; right now, it seems like a fortunate decision by Jordan‘s mom to make him go to Nike. But he had not gone to Nike and Nike floundered and then Converse signed him, we will be talking about the Converse ads. I’m sure Nike personnel made some good decisions to further his brand, but he is Mike. And knowing that he was the biggest sports figure in the world let them boldly do whatever they did. Would they do that with Pete Sampras? Didn’t even do it with Magic.

My examples above are a comparison for name only because Pete Sampras won a lot and so did Magic but they weren’t as big as Mike. Would they have done the same type of marketing strategy with them? I think that San Francisco person is apples to oranges because basketball is more popular but my point is Jordan was big. Maybe Converse could’ve used it, too?

Did your voice to text change your actual words, to "I think that Sampras person to Jordan is apples to oranges"?

 

[nuraman00]

To be fair, he may have made Adidas or Converse the alternate universe Nike; right now, it seems like a fortunate decision by Jordan‘s mom to make him go to Nike. But he had not gone to Nike and Nike floundered and then Converse signed him, we will be talking about the Converse ads. I’m sure Nike personnel made some good decisions to further his brand, but he is Mike. And knowing that he was the biggest sports figure in the world let them boldly do whatever they did. Would they do that with Pete Sampras? Didn’t even do it with Magic.

My examples above are a comparison for name only because Pete Sampras won a lot and so did Magic but they weren’t as big as Mike. Would they have done the same type of marketing strategy with them? I think that San Francisco person is apples to oranges because basketball is more popular but my point is Jordan was big. Maybe Converse could’ve used it, too?

Converse and Adidas both told him that they didn't have the budget to give him his own shoe line. He had gone to them first.

Converse said they already had all of these other stars (Bird, etc.)

Nike also said they hoped to sell $3 M in shoes over 4 years.

They sold $126 M in the first year.

Nike underestimated Jordan too.

I'll rewatch the segment to confirm what the reasons were for Converse and Adidas declining him.

So I'm not sure if Adidas and Converse would have been the alternate Nike, because they didn't want to give Jordan his own shoe line. They only wanted to promote him in groups, and have regular basketball shoes.

Adidas had done well giving other non basketball stars their own shoe line. But again, they decided they didn't have room for Michael.

I am not sure that basketball was more popular than tennis in 1984. The NBA Playoffs were on tape delay through 1986.

Meanwhile, John McEnroe was big in the 1980s, as was Chris Evert. American tennis was successful in the 80s through some point in the 90s.

There were also less TV options available than now, and tennis wasn't competing with so many choices now.

I don't know how to tell what sports were popular for a particular year or decade in the 80s.

I just don't know if basketball was as popular until after Jordan's first few years in the league.

 

[MHSL82]

Converse and Adidas both told him that they didn't have the budget to give him his own shoe line. He had gone to them first.

Converse said they already had all of these other stars (Bird, etc.)

Nike also said they hoped to sell $3 M in shoes over 4 years.

They sold $126 M in the first year.

Nike underestimated Jordan too.

I'll rewatch the segment to confirm what the reasons were for Converse and Adidas declining him.

So I'm not sure if Adidas and Converse would have been the alternate Nike, because they didn't want to give Jordan his own shoe line. They only wanted to promote him in groups, and have regular basketball shoes.

Adidas had done well giving other non basketball stars their own shoe line. But again, they decided they didn't have room for Michael.

I am not sure that basketball was more popular than tennis in 1984. The NBA Playoffs were on tape delay through 1986.

Meanwhile, John McEnroe was big in the 1980s, as was Chris Evert. American tennis was successful in the 80s through some point in the 90s.

There were also less TV options available than now, and tennis wasn't competing with so many choices now.

I don't know how to tell what sports were popular for a particular year or decade in the 80s.

I just don't know if basketball was as popular until after Jordan's first few years in the league.

You are right. Either way, Converse and Adidas were wrong for not giving him his own line of shoes. With or without Nike he would have had success. He didn’t become popular because Nike pushed him. He became popular because he won, had the personality publicly, etc.

They were as wrong as M and M was to decline ET. Reeses Pieces got a lot of good publicity when they agreed on Reese‘s pieces being used in ET. If I remember correctly, M and M did not know how America would do with an alien movie. I think that Reese‘s pieces had to pay to get it placed and M and M didn’t want to pay for it.

 

[MHSL82]

Did your voice to text change your actual words, to "I think that Sampras person to Jordan is apples to oranges"?

The word “person” wasn’t supposed to be there. but it works because he is less known than Michael Jordan now. But I liked him.

 

[nuraman00]

The word “person” wasn’t supposed to be there. but it works because he is less known than Michael Jordan now. But I liked him.

I've never heard you acknowledge tennis before.

Wow.

I watch and attend a decent amount of tennis events. I once went to an exhibition billed as "The Legend vs. The Rebel".

It was McEnroe vs. Agassi.

Afterwards, they auctioned off items for charity. I couldn't believe people bid thousands of dollars for those racquets.

I've seen Sampras in exhibitions twice. I'll send you those recaps in a few days.

 

[nuraman00]

You are right. Either way, Converse and Adidas were wrong for not giving him his own line of shoes. With or without Nike he would have had success. He didn’t become popular because Nike pushed him. He became popular because he won, had the personality publicly, etc.

They were as wrong as M and M was to decline ET. Reeses Pieces got a lot of good publicity when they agreed on Reese‘s pieces being used in ET. If I remember correctly, M and M did not know how America would do with an alien movie. I think that Reese‘s pieces had to pay to get it placed and M and M didn’t want to pay for it.

I hadn't heard that one before.

Wow.

The Stories Behind 10 Famous Product Placements

I've always liked Reeses Pieces more than the Reeses Pieces peanut butter cups.

I might like Reeses Pieces more than M&Ms too.

Here's a good site on Dairy Queen Blizards.

Blizzards - DQ Northside Rochester MN

If you go to the last table, it lists the flavors in groups.

I'm trying to get one in every flavor group.

I already did the candy group in 2017, when I had the Heath Blizzard.

But, maybe when I'm done with all of the groups, I have another candy one and this time I'll do Reese's Pieces. Thanks for the endorsement / reminder.

 

[nuraman00]

He became popular because he won, had the personality publicly, etc.

Not quite yet. He got his shoe deal as a rookie.

He didn't win a championship until his 7th year.

As the documentary has pointed out, there were a lot of critics that said he wasn't a winner like Johnson or Bird.

But, he did do a decent amount of winning, just not the championship until his 7th year. (Pippen was a reason why too, as were Paxon, etc.)