Mezsaros Torn Achilles

[banditshcky11]

If we offer a lot of years for subban the habs wont match

I don't agree with this at all. I think the only way we could pry Subban(who I personally hate and don't want because he's a cocky prick and IMO has already reached his ceiling) we'd have to offer a lot of years, a lot of $ & large signing bonus''. MTL will match if they don't get 4 1st rounders or they would say they want Schenn and Cooter, which I feel we've already establishjed is not a starting point or even being considered by management.

I think our D is fine, I am however a bit concerned about our lack of size up front and net presence outside of Harts and Simmonds(B Schenn might contribute too actually). I would still love to see a deal with ANA for Ryan and Sbisa as I feel the asking price would be semi-reasonable, thinking Read, Gus, Cousins & 2 firsts(or better yet insert Briere since ANA has such a problem with C's and Getz is pob gone next year).

I am hoping that the Flyers go after Perry after the season as I really feel he would fit on this team perfectly. I think everyone is aware of my love for gritty F's with some size and good awareness around the net. I mean how sexy would a line of Perry-G-Ryan look in O&B? Talk about a sandpaper line that would all put up 80 PTS.

 

[lasgop8]

I don't agree with this at all. I think the only way we could pry Subban(who I personally hate and don't want because he's a cocky prick and IMO has already reached his ceiling) we'd have to offer a lot of years, a lot of $ & large signing bonus''. MTL will match if they don't get 4 1st rounders or they would say they want Schenn and Cooter, which I feel we've already establishjed is not a starting point or even being considered by management.

I think our D is fine, I am however a bit concerned about our lack of size up front and net presence outside of Harts and Simmonds(B Schenn might contribute too actually). I would still love to see a deal with ANA for Ryan and Sbisa as I feel the asking price would be semi-reasonable, thinking Read, Gus, Cousins & 2 firsts(or better yet insert Briere since ANA has such a problem with C's and Getz is pob gone next year).

I am hoping that the Flyers go after Perry after the season as I really feel he would fit on this team perfectly. I think everyone is aware of my love for gritty F's with some size and good awareness around the net. I mean how sexy would a line of Perry-G-Ryan look in O&B? Talk about a sandpaper line that would all put up 80 PTS.

Most of this you could be right about and i hope we do get more size up front but the one thing in here i really dont agree with is where you said our D is fine. Our D is far from fine.

 

[banditshcky11]

Most of this you could be right about and i hope we do get more size up front but the one thing in here i really dont agree with is where you said our D is fine. Our D is far from fine.

I guess I should clarify. By fine I mean fine to start the season and see where we are at the all-star break/trade deadline. I don't think this D will win a cup by itself. This year more so then years past a ton of defensive responsibility will be place on our back-checking F's and on Bryz himself. If we can get the team to play better in their own zone then they did last year and stop commiting stupid give-a-ways on break out passes(yea I'm talking about the now gone Carle). I also feel we will be much more physical on the defensive side of things this year. Schenn loves to hits things, Coburn and Grossman both looked to take big steps in using their size to their advantage more in the post season, add in the fact that most of our F's will throw big hits given any opportunity and I'm assuming that we will be going for a more blue collar grind out game then run and gun. This may be completely wrong but I think Lavy is too good a coach to not realize that some of the teams systems may need tweaking. Also I believe that we will block way more shits then last year after seeing how effective the Rags could be once they adopted that policy.

Maybe I'm overly optomistic but if we could add Ryan and Sbisa for around the package I said(it may take more I'm not really sure if anyone else is seriously considering Ryan) we would have a more defined top 6 F group and 5 of our 6 D-men on the team would range from being semi-decent to excellent shot blockers & more physical add in Bryz being over adjusting to a big market and that should help lower our team GAA by 30 or so which should equate to more wins.

 

[awaz]

I guess I should clarify. By fine I mean fine to start the season and see where we are at the all-star break/trade deadline. I don't think this D will win a cup by itself. This year more so then years past a ton of defensive responsibility will be place on our back-checking F's and on Bryz himself. If we can get the team to play better in their own zone then they did last year and stop commiting stupid give-a-ways on break out passes(yea I'm talking about the now gone Carle). I also feel we will be much more physical on the defensive side of things this year. Schenn loves to hits things, Coburn and Grossman both looked to take big steps in using their size to their advantage more in the post season, add in the fact that most of our F's will throw big hits given any opportunity and I'm assuming that we will be going for a more blue collar grind out game then run and gun. This may be completely wrong but I think Lavy is too good a coach to not realize that some of the teams systems may need tweaking. Also I believe that we will block way more shits then last year after seeing how effective the Rags could be once they adopted that policy.

Maybe I'm overly optomistic but if we could add Ryan and Sbisa for around the package I said(it may take more I'm not really sure if anyone else is seriously considering Ryan) we would have a more defined top 6 F group and 5 of our 6 D-men on the team would range from being semi-decent to excellent shot blockers & more physical add in Bryz being over adjusting to a big market and that should help lower our team GAA by 30 or so which should equate to more wins.

love the thought, but i dont think that package will even get Ryan.. the ducks are set on couturier and/or bschenn being part of the deal, and i dont see them caving. someone will give up a highly touted prospect for Bobby Ryan, they'll hold out until then i think

i think pretty much every team the flyers try to trade w/ to acquire a big name, will refuse unless schenn or couturier are involved. considering they didn't give them up for weber, i dont think they'll trade either of them, and therefore i dont see the flyers making any kind of big splash this year.. if they add via trade, i expect it will either be a veteran guy for a 3rd pick, or an earlier pick for a prospect that hasn't panned out so far (similar to Lschenn)

 

[banditshcky11]

love the thought, but i dont think that package will even get Ryan.. the ducks are set on couturier and/or bschenn being part of the deal, and i dont see them caving. someone will give up a highly touted prospect for Bobby Ryan, they'll hold out until then i think

I don't agree with ANA standing pat on what they want because they alienated Ryan and he's all but demanded a trade at this point. Know this I can't see any GM giving them what they'd really want for Ryan(being 2 blue chips prospects and a 1st I'm guessing). Keeping Ryan in the room will IMO drive Getz and Perry to both be counting the days to FA since their linemate who has contributed a ton to their team has been deemed expendable regardless of his quality production. The package I said basically does incude 1 F (either Briere or Read that could play C and put up 50+ pts), 2 quality prospects + 2 first rounders which would be one of the better if not best returns they could hope for now. If I was the GM of a rebuilding team I'd think that a pretty attractive return.

 

[TOX1]

All I know is that this current D set up is pretty much equivalent to what we had going into the playoffs and we all know how that played out. Yes, they'll win games with the 3 musketeers platooning, but come playoff time, the vets will be overused and the youngsters will get pummeled & exposed.

I'm pretty sure we're all in agreement that Homer HAS to make a move. It's just a matter of when imo.

 

[awaz]

I don't agree with ANA standing pat on what they want because they alienated Ryan and he's all but demanded a trade at this point. Know this I can't see any GM giving them what they'd really want for Ryan(being 2 blue chips prospects and a 1st I'm guessing). Keeping Ryan in the room will IMO drive Getz and Perry to both be counting the days to FA since their linemate who has contributed a ton to their team has been deemed expendable regardless of his quality production. The package I said basically does incude 1 F (either Briere or Read that could play C and put up 50+ pts), 2 quality prospects + 2 first rounders which would be one of the better if not best returns they could hope for now. If I was the GM of a rebuilding team I'd think that a pretty attractive return.

those aren't real quality prospects though.. from everything i've read cousins projects at best, as a 3rd line agitator that can score some goals if need be, but most likely a 4th line agitator

gust, at absolute best, is a #4 dman, but more likely a bottom pair, PP specialist type dman..

briere probably wouldn't waive his NTC to go to a rebuilding team, plus i dont think the flyers have any desire to move an all-world playoff performer, veteran presence, for the team they've assembled now..

and read, while solid, doesn't have a shit ton of trade value in my mind.. i think what he provided last year is about what he's going to provide for his career, 50ish points, solid two way play.. which is good, but not enough to be a centerpiece of a bobby ryan trade, let alone a bobby ryan + luca sbisa trade..

the two first round picks have value though, i agree..

but the players you have listed, at best you end up with two 3rd liners and a #4 dman.. maybe i'm undervaluing some of our players/prospects, but the flyers are last in the league in terms of prospects for a reason

 

[awaz]

All I know is that this current D set up is pretty much equivalent to what we had going into the playoffs and we all know how that played out. Yes, they'll win games with the 3 musketeers platooning, but come playoff time, the vets will be overused and the youngsters will get pummeled & exposed.

I'm pretty sure we're all in agreement that Homer HAS to make a move. It's just a matter of when imo.

yep. and the way the market is right now, i dont think its worth it to make the move now. the 3 musketeers (nice btw) can hold up until the deadline i think

i really like bourdon, i really think if he reverts to pre-conky form, he can hold down the #5 spot all season, but if moved to the 6th spot, relative to other teams' #6, he'd be a strength

 

[mall3013]

Guys. I've been searching for answers for some time now on this defense. I'll say it again. The perfect trade partner would be the Sabres. They are loaded with quality dmen top to bottom. Nothing sexy with names, but the bottom line is it wouldn't cost us a fortune. On the Briere trade talk, I'm willing to bet he would waive his NTC to go back to Buffalo to finish his career off. Leino would love to have him as well. Briere could solve our defensive issues by getting a couple of solid dmen in return. Not sure why or if Homer has looked into this, but it would save us from trading any Schenn's, Cooter, or Read. Buffalo desperately needs a center or two. Furthermore, the Bobby Ryan rumors to Buffalo would come to a halt. Just my opinion.

 

[banditshcky11]

those aren't real quality prospects though.. from everything i've read cousins projects at best, as a 3rd line agitator that can score some goals if need be, but most likely a 4th line agitator

gust, at absolute best, is a #4 dman, but more likely a bottom pair, PP specialist type dman..

briere probably wouldn't waive his NTC to go to a rebuilding team, plus i dont think the flyers have any desire to move an all-world playoff performer, veteran presence, for the team they've assembled now..

and read, while solid, doesn't have a shit ton of trade value in my mind.. i think what he provided last year is about what he's going to provide for his career, 50ish points, solid two way play.. which is good, but not enough to be a centerpiece of a bobby ryan trade, let alone a bobby ryan + luca sbisa trade..

the two first round picks have value though, i agree..

but the players you have listed, at best you end up with two 3rd liners and a #4 dman.. maybe i'm undervaluing some of our players/prospects, but the flyers are last in the league in terms of prospects for a reason

It's possible that I over-value our prospects, this is the way I see it though.

I think that Briere's talent is known. Read IMO is a 50-60 pt a year guy depending on the team and his PP time, but his true value is in the fact that he is a great 2-way player and plays the PK so well. Gusty was originally touted to be a guy in the mold of Timonen, while this may not be true at worst he's a 2nd pairing D-man who makes a good first pass, has speed, likes to join the rush and could earn time on a 2nd PP unit. Cousins has a tool set that has been compared to Harts(minus Harts size), these types of players have intangibles that can't accurately be measured until they see significant time with steady line mates. You could end up with another Harts or Neal type or you could get Kaleta. The 2 firsts make up the gap to me since I don't think Sbisa is worth more then a 1st rounder and that gives you 3 players who could make the Ducks roster and an additional 1st. That gives you 3 spots filled on a team that was 23rd in GF last season and 20th in GA. The other thing this could do is it could open up the doors to get Getz, Perry & Fowler to all re-sign long term which would help them considerably.


Moving on to trading with Buffalo. I'm all for it if Briere is going the other way but you need to get the right value for him. In fact trading with Buffalo makes a ton of sense I just don't really see who we would target from there. Leopold and Reghr( I'm not convinced I'd want any of them though unless there was a significant prospect or higher(1st/2nd) pick coming back) are the 2 that I would think they'd be willing to deal possibly even Sekera. I'd take Sekera and a pick while dumping a D-man to them to free up a contract spot and some cap. I still believe the LEafs may be good trading partners since they also have a huge abundance of defensive prospects, I'd target Franson since he has some size and some offensive skills even though he's not overly physical(possibly a good compliment to L Schenn's game though).

Lastly I'll just say I still am not convinced that our younger guys can't fill the holes we'll have. The big thing is Homer has to be careful to not over-pay a team now especially since most of the teams that appear to be good trading partners have holes that we could fill for them also.

 

[ProppRules]

I agree with Awaz. Don't make a panic move now. If the bottom half of our D starts letting us down, something different could open up by November, let alone the deadline. Injuries have a way of opening up trade possibilities in both directions.

 

[TOX1]

My only concern with the waiting game is the ultimate price that will have to be paid in any trade at the end of the year. Like what NJ did for Zidlicky - 3 players and 2 draft picks. No, Homer isn't Clarke stupid ( see Adam Oates ), but...

 

[ProppRules]

With Zidlicky, there was some prior history which factored into that trade. Look at the Grossmann deal. Right now, there is no worthwhile move that we wouldn't get raped for. Yandle's price is insane. Subban may be worse for some reason. Everyone else sucks, so we may as well stick with our current sucky choices.
Look at Gonchar. Not my favorite choice but as an example. He is a UFA next year. If Ottawa starts off horrible and Alfie goes down with a LT injury, they may be looking to dump salary for some youth. If a player like Gus has been in our lineup all year at that point, his value may have increased, Gonchar's would have decreased, and we could foot the cap hit while lowering their payroll. babchuk on Calgary is another example.

 

[Maverick426h]

I see no need to make an immediate move for a defenseman. The top four is still fairly strong, Gervais can play the 5 and one of Bourdon/Gustafsson/Manning could probably settle into the 6 extensively. If Meszaros isn't healthy by the trade deadline, then pull the trigger on a deal. Besides, with G making a serious run at the Hart and Art Ross plus another year of experience for our young forwards, we're going to score a lot of goals and shut down a lot of elite players. You also have to think that Bryz will have a better season. Why? He pretty much has to...lol

 

[TOX1]

Defenseman Andrej Meszaros (torn Achilles) is also rehabbing and receiving his regular paychecks. Meszaros, though, just recently began on-ice workouts and is not terribly close to being game-ready.



Here's some good news though :wacko:--

Monday, December 3, 2012, 6:18 PM


Flyers defenseman Andreas Lilja, who underwent left hip surgery in mid-July, joined the Adirondack Phantoms on Monday in Glens Falls, N.Y., on a conditioning assignment.



Lilja rehabs with Phantoms