McCaffery drawing huge buzz

[Sharkinva]

Because Cook is a stonewall as a pass protector?

Never said that. But the thing is, Cook is considered a better over all prospect than some one projected to be a 4th-7th round pick. Very rarely is a player considered cant miss, and I wont even begin to say Cook is a cant miss player. But he is less of a project than a late round RB. And lets be real, the coach would be alot less likely to give up on a back taken in the first round after five attempts, than he would be with a 4th round to undrafted project.

 

[ehb5]

Never said that. But the thing is, Cook is considered a better over all prospect than some one projected to be a 4th-7th round pick. Very rarely is a player considered cant miss, and I wont even begin to say Cook is a cant miss player. But he is less of a project than a late round RB. And lets be real, the coach would be alot less likely to give up on a back taken in the first round after five attempts, than he would be with a 4th round to undrafted project.

Of course hes a better prospect. But Williams isnt a project.

And like you said - Cook sure as hell isnt a cant miss prospect. And if you wanna take a RB in the 1st he better be one hell of a "cant miss" prospect.

Meanwhile, we have example after example of guys like Williams going on to have good to great careers at a fraction of the cost.

 

[Sharkinva]

Of course hes a better prospect. But Williams isnt a project.

And like you said - Cook sure as hell isnt a cant miss prospect. And if you wanna take a RB in the 1st he better be one hell of a "cant miss" prospect.

Meanwhile, we have example after example of guys like Williams going on to have good to great careers at a fraction of the cost.

The same could be said for just about every position. If Williams were considered in the same ball park as Cook, he wouldnt be considered a late round pick.

Again I will state, I think IF he is there at 17, Cook is a better prospect than most of the guys we are being projected to take. And I think most of the guys we are being projected to take are factoring in more of a NEEDS first component, than purely a best player available. IF Cook ends up being the best player available at 17 who also fills a need, I see no point in forcing the defensive player simply because we need defensive help more. But that is a whole lot of what is being pushed both here and on other sites. The concept that anything other than a defensive player would be a mistake.

 

[ehb5]

The same could be said for just about every position. If Williams were considered in the same ball park as Cook, he wouldnt be considered a late round pick.

Again I will state, I think IF he is there at 17, Cook is a better prospect than most of the guys we are being projected to take. And I think most of the guys we are being projected to take are factoring in more of a NEEDS first component, than purely a best player available. IF Cook ends up being the best player available at 17 who also fills a need, I see no point in forcing the defensive player simply because we need defensive help more. But that is a whole lot of what is being pushed both here and on other sites. The concept that anything other than a defensive player would be a mistake.

Im not sure I buy that first part. The ability to easily interchange RBs is pretty unparalleled. On top of that if you wanna look at it a different way. In the last 10 years I think the only 1st round RBs to end up worth the pick are AP and I guess Zeke (though he still went too early and Dallas wouldve been better off with somebody else).

I get you think Cook is an amazing prospect at least in comparison to what we will have available at 17. From that POV I can understand why you want him. But I dont share that view of him (though there is a lot to like). Id be happy to bicker over Cook as a prospect if you want though lol.

As for the whole need thing. I think we've discussed this enough that you should know by now it has nothing to do with need for me. Its a matter of positional value and maximizing our utility from the pick. Thats all that matters. Im not even committed to the pick being a defensive player. So maybe those ideas are out there, but in the context of debating with me theyre entirely irrelevant.

 

[Ruzious]

With Cook, I could probably overlook either his fumbling or his arrests - but not both. I pass on him in the first round, and I do think he'll be there - for the reason I mentioned.

 

[Mitziman]

With Cook, I could probably overlook either his fumbling or his arrests - but not both. I pass on him in the first round, and I do think he'll be there - for the reason I mentioned.

Dalvin's "fumbling" stats are a fact, 687 rushing attempts and 10 fumbles. All the "arrests" charges were dropped as well, and that's a fact. As a young black kid (in a man's body) growing up in the hood of Miami, it would have been a miracle if he was never arrested...and that my redskins brother, is also a fact.

 

[gkekoa]

Dalvin's "fumbling" stats are a fact, 687 rushing attempts and 10 fumbles. All the "arrests" charges were dropped as well, and that's a fact. As a young black kid (in a man's body) growing up in the hood of Miami, it would have been a miracle if he was never arrested...and that my redskins brother, is also a fact.

Why do we excuse behavior, a choice, because of location?

How can "the hood" ever change if people excuse, embrace, or celebrate the behavior?

Can we have people of courage stand up and do the right thing, thus leading "the hood" out of this mentality?

 

[Sharkinva]

Why do we excuse behavior, a choice, because of location?

How can "the hood" ever change if people excuse, embrace, or celebrate the behavior?

Can we have people of courage stand up and do the right thing, thus leading "the hood" out of this mentality?

Because to a degree people are a product of their environment. Just as a young black man growing up in certain areas will be at risk of committing crimes of stupidity, a young white male who grows up in certain areas is predisposed to be raised with certain antiquated ideals about race/religion or gender. No one is saying either behavior is acceptable. But if you are raised in these environments, odds are you will pick up some of those behaviors.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Why do we excuse behavior, a choice, because of location?

How can "the hood" ever change if people excuse, embrace, or celebrate the behavior?

Can we have people of courage stand up and do the right thing, thus leading "the hood" out of this mentality?

It appears he suffered the consequences of his past actions, and it will even affect his ability to get a job.
He isn't from the best area or environment, but you are right he should have made better choices.
I think he is sorry for his actions. Also this guy -- who grew up in better surroundings also should be forgiven right? He did very bad things too, and some will ask the very same questions.
Incognito, others tormented Martin

Miami Dolphins offensive lineman Jonathan Martin was subjected to "a pattern of harassment" that included racial slurs and vicious sexual taunts about his mother and sister by three teammates, according to a report released Friday by NFL investigator Ted Wells.

The 144-page report said Richie Incognito, who was suspended by the team in November, and fellow offensive linemen John Jerry and Mike Pouncey harassed Martin. Another offensive lineman and an assistant trainer also routinely came under attack, the investigation found. Neither was named in the report.

Martin's agent, Kenneth Zuckerman, said his client feels "vindicated" by the report and plans to resume his football career.

"He feels a great sense of relief," Zuckerman said. "Jonathan Martin is a great man, and he's only shown me that he is very honest since the day I met him. He loves football and is eager to get back on the field, regardless of what team he plays for."

Incognito's attorney, Mark Schamel, released a statement saying Wells' report was "replete with errors" and said Martin "was never bullied by Richie Incognito or any member of the Dolphins' offensive line."

Wells said his inquiry found Martin was taunted and ridiculed almost daily. After Martin left the team in October, Incognito boasted about "breaking Jmart" in a notebook the linemen used to tally fines and bonuses among themselves. When the investigation began, Incognito asked another player to destroy the book, but investigators obtained it.

Incognito took to Twitter on Friday afternoon.

Pleeeeease Stop The Hate. Happy Valentines Day

- Richie Incognito (@68INCOGNITO) February 14, 2014

The other harassed player was "subjected to homophobic name-calling and improper physical touching," while the assistant trainer, who was born in Japan, was subjected to racial slurs.

"It was not difficult to conclude that the assistant trainer and Player A were harassed, but the questions raised in Martin's case were more complex, nuanced and difficult," the report said.

In the case of Player A, the report said, Dolphins offensive line coach Jim Turner "was aware of the running 'joke' that Player A was gay, and on at least one occasion, he participated in the taunting."

"Around Christmas 2012, Coach Turner gave the offensive linemen gift bags that included a variety of stocking stuffers. The gifts included inflatable female dolls for all of the offensive linemen except Player A, who received a male 'blow-up' doll," the report said.

"According to Incognito, Player A was a 'good kid' who 'took it well' and never told his teammates to stop. In Incognito's eyes, jokes about Player A's sexuality were all harmless fun."

The report continued, "With the recent announcement by Michael Sam, a defensive lineman from the University of Missouri who is expected to be selected in the 2014 NFL draft, that he is gay, it is even more urgent that a tolerant atmosphere exist throughout the league. The frequent use of homophobic insults undermines this goal."

The report rejected suggestions that Martin, who left the team amid allegations of bullying and harassment, made up the claims. Incognito was ultimately suspended for the final eight games of the season -- two without pay -- while the NFL investigated the situation.

Incognito ranted at Martin on Twitter on Wednesday, telling him, "The truth is going to bury you and your entire 'camp'. You could have told the truth the entire time." Eight days earlier, Incognito tweeted that he supported Martin "100 percent in his return to football in 2014."

Dolphins coach Joe Philbin and the front office were not aware of the players' mistreatment of Martin, Player A or the assistant trainer, the report determined.


"After interviewing Coach Philbin at length, we were impressed with his commitment to promoting integrity and accountability throughout the Dolphins organization -- a point echoed by many players. We are convinced that had Coach Philbin learned of the underlying misconduct, he would have intervened promptly to ensure that Martin and others were treated with dignity," the report said.

Dolphins owner Stephen Ross recently said he doesn't expect either Incognito or Martin to return to Miami next season. Incognito is an unrestricted free agent, and Martin has two years left on his contract but likely will be traded or released.

"I now have had a chance to read the report and obviously, the language that was used and the behavior as described is deeply disturbing," Ross said in a statement Friday. "Although the report commended Joe Philbin's commitment to promoting integrity and accountability throughout the Dolphins organization, I told Ted Wells personally during my visit with him that we are committed to addressing the issues outlined in this report. We must work together towards a culture of civility and mutual respect for one another. It is important to me, important to Coach Philbin and important to the entire Dolphins organization."

Although Wells concluded that Martin was abused by three teammates, he qualified some of the assertions in Martin's account.

Evaluating Martin's claims was difficult, "given his mental health issues, his possible heightened sensitivity to insults and his unusual, 'bipolar' friendship with Incognito," the report said.

"Nonetheless, we ultimately concluded that Martin was indeed harassed by Incognito, who can fairly be described as the main instigator."

In a statement emailed by a league spokesman, the NFL did not make any mention of possible punishment stemming from the case. Instead, the league confirmed it had received Wells' report and said it appreciated the Dolphins' cooperation with the investigation.

Wells, retained by the league Nov. 6, said he does not intend to comment further on a case that prompted a national debate about hazing and workplace bullying.

Incognito later tweeted his feelings on the Wells report Friday night:

You could not define me in 144 years let alone 144 pages Mr Wells. Thank you for your hard work and dedication.

- Richie Incognito (@68INCOGNITO) February 15, 2014

Martin told investigators Incognito joked that he and other teammates would r*pe Martin's sister, a medical student none of them had ever met. Incognito also used racial slurs with Martin, made jokes about slavery and routinely demeaned Martin for not being "black enough."

The report said Pouncey and Jerry followed Incognito's lead.

"To a great extent, Incognito dictated the culture," the report said. "We doubt that matters would have gotten so out of hand had Incognito not set a tone on the offensive line that made extremely vulgar taunting a typical form of communication."

The 6-foot-5, 312-pound Martin abruptly left the team Oct. 28. He was briefly hospitalized, and then joined his family in California and underwent counseling for emotional issues. Incognito expressed regrets about the racial and profane language he used with Martin but said it stemmed from a culture of locker-room "brotherhood," not bullying.

Martin has said he tried to be friends with Incognito. The two traded more than 1,000 text messages in a year's span, and the teasing and vulgar banter went both ways, with references to sex, drugs, violence and bawdy behavior, often in a jocular tone.

"When we asked the NFL to conduct this independent review, we felt it was important to take a step back and thoroughly research these serious allegations," Ross said. "As an organization, we are committed to a culture of team-first accountability and respect for one another."

During the investigation, Wells reviewed thousands of voluntarily produced documents, including text messages, emails and team policies, while also completing more than 100 interviews. Wells talked with Dolphins players, coaches and front-office personnel.

The report said text messages Martin sent to his parents and others before he left the team verified Martin's claim that harassment at the hands of his teammates caused him "significant emotional distress."

However, the report concluded that Martin's teammates didn't intend to drive the left tackle from the team or cause him lasting emotional distress.

Green Bay Packers offensive lineman T.J. Lang took to Twitter with a plea seemingly meant for fans.

"Please don't stereotype NFL players for what's going on with Miami. That type of stuff is not common in other locker rooms," he wrote.

 

[gkekoa]

Do all people from those environments commit crime and get arrested? Crimes are actions...actions are choices in that sense.

Again, how will people change if it is accepted or even promoted?

 

[Stymietee]

Why do we excuse behavior, a choice, because of location?

How can "the hood" ever change if people excuse, embrace, or celebrate the behavior?

Can we have people of courage stand up and do the right thing, thus leading "the hood" out of this mentality?

Obviously you have distanced yourself from the reality of law enforcement, the biggest jobs program in the country today.
I defy you to get through a single day without breaking some law or ordinance, but let's play it your way.

Your question: why do we excuse behavior, a choice, because of location?..... Well we don't, in fact we encourage it by concentrating large clusters of people into small areas, eliminate resources and leave them to thier own devices to survive. All of this is then placed under the watchful eye of law enforcement.

Your question: How can the "hood" ever change, if people excuse, embrace, or celebrate behavior?.......The "hood" is not, by design, supposed to change. This tells me that you are either unaware of or didn't factor into your reasoning the Caste system of this country. Behavior, contrary to your position on it is DIRECTLY linked to opportunity. Even the biggest saint in the "hood" wakes up and goes to sleep under the same conditions. That said, let's play it your way and imagine a "hood" filled with nothing but righteous people. How many cops are you ready to dismiss in a reduction of force? Lawyers? Judges? Jails and prisons with ancillary personnel?

 

[Stymietee]

Do all people from those environments commit crime and get arrested? Crimes are actions...actions are choices in that sense.

Again, how will people change if it is accepted or even promoted?

Why didn't you finish that line of thinking? So rather than me telling you what choice of words to use, finish it by answering the question.......and choices are determined by?

 

[gkekoa]

Obviously you have distanced yourself from the reality of law enforcement, the biggest jobs program in the country today.
I defy you to get through a single day without breaking some law or ordinance, but let's play it your way.

Your question: why do we excuse behavior, a choice, because of location?..... Well we don't, in fact we encourage it by concentrating large clusters of people into small areas, eliminate resources and leave them to thier own devices to survive. All of this is then placed under the watchful eye of law enforcement.

Your question: How can the "hood" ever change, if people excuse, embrace, or celebrate behavior?.......The "hood" is not, by design, supposed to change. This tells me that you are either unaware of or didn't factor into your reasoning the Caste system of this country. Behavior, contrary to your position on it is DIRECTLY linked to opportunity. Even the biggest saint in the "hood" wakes up and goes to sleep under the same conditions. That said, let's play it your way and imagine a "hood" filled with nothing but righteous people. How many cops are you ready to dismiss in a reduction of force? Lawyers? Judges? Jails and prisons with ancillary personnel?

Every single one of them.

Why didn't you finish that line of thinking? So rather than me telling you what choice of words to use, finish it by answering the question.......and choices are determined by?

Need and desire. People in "the hood" do not NEED to do what they do. They choose to.

 

[Stymietee]

Every single one of them.



Need and desire. People in "the hood" do not NEED to do what they do. They choose to.

The very first instinct of human life is survival. What would you not do to survive? They may very well not need to do what's necessary to survive but the cost otherwise is death.

 

[gkekoa]

The very first instinct of human life is survival. What would you not do to survive? They may very well not need to do what's necessary to survive but the cost otherwise is death.

Then how does anybody escape without being in prison or dead?

 

[Stymietee]

Then how does anybody escape without being in prison or dead?

There's always a way out but not for many, again this is by design. A talented athlete,..... "illegal" and unnecessary war on drugs especially marijuana which is a booming industry in the states where it is legal and where itt is not,......religious entities that take and rarely do business or give back to the communities in which they also only sell hope. Then there's the big game lotteries where millions are raked out giving back that once in a lifetime payout. Small wonder why the greatest number of tickets sold are among the poor.

Everything that I've noted above pales in comparison to the systematic ways in which legal businesses are granted opportunities to siphon capital out of these places without reinvestment. Our Caste system is alive and well.

I know that you often stand against racism charges and often decry its existence, however I've come across a very good example of it. Try it yourself......in your search bar type in this, dollar circulation in poor communities, let me know what the immediate results are.

 

[gkekoa]

Why isnt it a way out for all? If more attempted this way out, wouldn't more get out? Maybe if more attempted a better way, "the hood" itself would change.

Is weed necessary? Why is it the poor in the ghettos choose to waste their money on weed and lottery tickets? If they chose not to waste their money, wouldn't they have more of it? If they chose not to accept the drugs in their neighborhoods, wouldn't they be safer?

Racism exists but what you are talking about isn't racism. It is just being smart. Would you live in the hood, spend your money in the hood, if you could make money from them and live elsewhere? If you want business to improve in the hood, give businesses a reason to be there.

 

[Stymietee]

Why isnt it a way out for all? If more attempted this way out, wouldn't more get out? Maybe if more attempted a better way, "the hood" itself would change.

Is weed necessary? Why is it the poor in the ghettos choose to waste their money on weed and lottery tickets? If they chose not to waste their money, wouldn't they have more of it? If they chose not to accept the drugs in their neighborhoods, wouldn't they be safer?

Racism exists but what you are talking about isn't racism. It is just being smart. Would you live in the hood, spend your money in the hood, if you could make money from them and live elsewhere? If you want business to improve in the hood, give businesses a reason to be there.

Again make yourself intimately familiar with the US Caste system. For the most part a two tiered system until FDR when it became a three tiered system. The one percent now make up a fourth tier.

 

[gkekoa]

Again make yourself intimately familiar with the US Caste system. For the most part a two tiered system until FDR when it became a three tiered system. The one percent now make up a fourth tier.

Extremely familiar. Familiarize yourself with choice.

 

[Sharkinva]

Extremely familiar. Familiarize yourself with choice.

OK damn it got to chime in.

You have a CHOICE between your kids not eating, or committing a crime and ensuring your kids eat. Which is the RIGHT choice??

See the problem here is, if the current situation doesnt negatively affect you (and this is a general you by the way), or some one you directly care about, then odds are you will have no desire to see it change. Or will more than likely adopt an attidue of, its not my problem. Now if that same situation intentionally or not, actually benefits you, then its real easy to say... well IM doing fine.. whats wrong with those people? Why cant they do what I did?? Its nice to say, well everyone has a choice. But sometimes all the options available to a particular person are simply all bad choices.