Mariners Minors

[seattlefan75]

To be fair to Jerry, he has done really well with drafting and has done well with international signings. The pitching staff we all love was drafted and used Jerry’s draft picks to get Castillo. Drafted Cal, Julio has been a disappointment except for 5 months but he still has been good. The two biggest flaws with Jerry is his stupid CTZ crap, his toxicity with his players, and his inability to evaluate MLB talent with trades…well and his weird fixation on certain players.

Yes I give Jerry a ton of credit to building the pitching staff 4 out of the 5 starters were drafted and what Andres Munoz has done for us is so unspoken its a crime. I will also say it was a tough break that both Kyle Lewis and Evan White had career altering injuries because if they would have panned out the make up of the lineup would be a lot different.

With all that being said that is roughly 6 players that panned out in 8 years since taking over

 

[seattlefan75]

While this is great, it also sucks cause all of the high upside guys are years away. Ford has no path to the big leagues unless Garver or Cal are dealt. Cole Young has heated up big time but I can’t see him getting everyday AB’s next year. In theory he could platoon with Bliss next year but is a “playoff caliber” team really going to roll with him? Plus IMO for Young to really prove his value, they finally have to be a big boy organization and treat JP like who he actually is. If he really is the captain, then he should look at himself in the mirror and be a 9 hole 2B. Even in his one good offensive season he was still a below average 2B.

Yeah the organization adores JP and he had a very good 2023 season. The rule of thumb whenever looking at a players stats is to take away their best season and worst season and see what it looks like. If you take away the 23 as his best and 24 as his worst he is an average hovering around below average player. I think he is just loved by players and coaches around the clubhouse and there are worse positions to address which is why I think they keep him where he is.

For Cole Young I think its in his best interest to learn to play 2nd as I think that's could be his every day calling. I don't think Jorge Polanco will come back I think the Mariners will exercise his 1 million buyout as he didn't meet his 550 plate appearance requirement. Dylan Moore and Bliss are nothing more than platoon players. Now Ford will be a weird player. I have never seen a catcher that can steal bases but Cal is a wonderful game caller and you need experience at that position. I know they tried placing him in the OF for a few games but after acquiring Arozarena and Mitch Haniger most likely opting into his 17.5 mill final year where would be place Ford?

 

[wazzu31]

Yes I give Jerry a ton of credit to building the pitching staff 4 out of the 5 starters were drafted and what Andres Munoz has done for us is so unspoken its a crime. I will also say it was a tough break that both Kyle Lewis and Evan White had career altering injuries because if they would have panned out the make up of the lineup would be a lot different.

With all that being said that is roughly 6 players that panned out in 8 years since taking over

I started to write a reply defending Jerry, I threw up and deleted it.

 

[wazzu31]

Yeah the organization adores JP and he had a very good 2023 season. The rule of thumb whenever looking at a players stats is to take away their best season and worst season and see what it looks like. If you take away the 23 as his best and 24 as his worst he is an average hovering around below average player. I think he is just loved by players and coaches around the clubhouse and there are worse positions to address which is why I think they keep him where he is.

For Cole Young I think its in his best interest to learn to play 2nd as I think that's could be his every day calling. I don't think Jorge Polanco will come back I think the Mariners will exercise his 1 million buyout as he didn't meet his 550 plate appearance requirement. Dylan Moore and Bliss are nothing more than platoon players. Now Ford will be a weird player. I have never seen a catcher that can steal bases but Cal is a wonderful game caller and you need experience at that position. I know they tried placing him in the OF for a few games but after acquiring Arozarena and Mitch Haniger most likely opting into his 17.5 mill final year where would be place Ford?

But keeping JP at SS has been a huge problem for them. He is a bad defensive SS and should not ever lead off. This team has desperately been trying to find a 2B during JP’s entire career here, would be much easier evaluating a SS.

Why do you think Cole Young’s best interest is 2B? I did too but then realized the Mariners don’t have a SS. Moore is a platoon player but Jerry has done everything in his power to make him an everyday player.

With Ford we all saw the exact player, his ceiling in the big leagues was and that is Craig Biggio. Biggest issue with Ford is if they are serious about moving him as an everyday catcher is limited. Don’t think at all they should try to make him a COF. If that is the case then they should trade him while his value is high

 

[NWinAZ]

To be fair to Jerry, he has done really well with drafting and has done well with international signings. The pitching staff we all love was drafted and used Jerry’s draft picks to get Castillo. Drafted Cal, Julio has been a disappointment except for 5 months but he still has been good. The two biggest flaws with Jerry is his stupid CTZ crap, his toxicity with his players, and his inability to evaluate MLB talent with trades…well and his weird fixation on certain players.

I didn't say it, but I was talking the offensive side. I think pitching is easier to guess at. Get guys that throw hard and add a pitch or two. Hitters is where the work begins. Take the best college hitter and you may never see him at the big league level. That happens a lot. Plus it seems he drafts pitching 2 to 1 so what happened to all the other guys?

 

[NWinAZ]

Yes the same is said in all sports you have to do well in drafting, signing free agents and trades. I think hitting in the draft and developing an above average player in the major leagues is about a 15% average I think. This franchise however has been atrocious in free agent signing. I remember when the Seahawks were building their super bowl team people talk about how well they drafted but over look the Marshawn Lynch trade and Michael Bennett/Cliff Avril signings. If I remember right I think most of the offense line were free agents other than Max Unger.

I agree but I do give them an excuse on free agent signings. The reason they don't hit well on that is simply because they are CHEAP!. When Garver, a backup catcher turned DH who plays half his seasons and has an average bat on good teams, is your biggest offensive signing ever under DIP you will never improve. Jack signed better people. Yes Cano cost them a fortune, but he is also the highest rated 2B in Mariners history. Talent costs more than junk.

 

[wazzu31]

I didn't say it, but I was talking the offensive side. I think pitching is easier to guess at. Get guys that throw hard and add a pitch or two. Hitters is where the work begins. Take the best college hitter and you may never see him at the big league level. That happens a lot. Plus it seems he drafts pitching 2 to 1 so what happened to all the other guys?

I don’t think you can put Kyle Lewis on Jerry though. Evan White I 100% put on Jerry for his stupid philosophy. Jerry said his philosophy went wanting college pitching then HS position players, which to me makes no sense. We are seeing the problem with that philosophy where there is a huge gap.

 

[NWinAZ]

I don’t think you can put Kyle Lewis on Jerry though. Evan White I 100% put on Jerry for his stupid philosophy. Jerry said his philosophy went wanting college pitching then HS position players, which to me makes no sense. We are seeing the problem with that philosophy where there is a huge gap.

No I don't put the Lewis injury on DIP, but we don't know what kind of a MLB career he would have had without it either. Short year ROY but Sept/Oct he batted .147. Then started 2021 batting .161 in March/April. I still have my question mark on him as a long term MLB guy even w/o the injury.

 

[seattlefan75]

I agree but I do give them an excuse on free agent signings. The reason they don't hit well on that is simply because they are CHEAP!. When Garver, a backup catcher turned DH who plays half his seasons and has an average bat on good teams, is your biggest offensive signing ever under DIP you will never improve. Jack signed better people. Yes Cano cost them a fortune, but he is also the highest rated 2B in Mariners history. Talent costs more than junk.

Yeah having an average budget trying to acquire top end talent in free agency is impossible especially when teams like the Dodgers or Yankees having unlimited payroll. Also with that I don't think many players are wanting to come to Seattle unless we overpay their value. I do believe as you mentioned most owners want to get away from signing mega contracts. Cano may have been a highly touted 2nd baseman in Mariner history (I think I would give the edge to Bret Boone) but in its whole it was a failure as we didn't win, was suspended twice for PED, was basically a washed player his last 4-5 years in the league, and just last year 2023 the mariners sent him his final check and hasn't played major league ball since like 2019. Heck even our homegrown player JROD that contract all of a sudden looks pretty bad we are all holding our breathe with him.

 

[seattlefan75]

But keeping JP at SS has been a huge problem for them. He is a bad defensive SS and should not ever lead off. This team has desperately been trying to find a 2B during JP’s entire career here, would be much easier evaluating a SS.

Why do you think Cole Young’s best interest is 2B? I did too but then realized the Mariners don’t have a SS. Moore is a platoon player but Jerry has done everything in his power to make him an everyday player.

With Ford we all saw the exact player, his ceiling in the big leagues was and that is Craig Biggio. Biggest issue with Ford is if they are serious about moving him as an everyday catcher is limited. Don’t think at all they should try to make him a COF. If that is the case then they should trade him while his value is high

If I was in Cole Youngs camp and being objective I would look at like hey you can either try to be a SS and compete with JP whom is on the books until 2026 or you can take the 2nd base opening as I don't think Jorge Polanco will be with us after this season. If Cole can take that position and make it his and get 400-500 ABs and start knocking away at his service commitment. This path I think would be better for his career.

As far as Ford I think they really did try and put him on the market to acquire a big name bat (Vlad Jr) I don't think teams were very high on Ford or Young or maybe they wanted more of a huge package deal which I'm sure the Mariners weren't willing to do. Him getting at bats in the OF I am sure was to showcase his ability to play the position.

Vlad Jr trade

 

[wazzu31]

If I was in Cole Youngs camp and being objective I would look at like hey you can either try to be a SS and compete with JP whom is on the books until 2026 or you can take the 2nd base opening as I don't think Jorge Polanco will be with us after this season. If Cole can take that position and make it his and get 400-500 ABs and start knocking away at his service commitment. This path I think would be better for his career.

As far as Ford I think they really did try and put him on the market to acquire a big name bat (Vlad Jr) I don't think teams were very high on Ford or Young or maybe they wanted more of a huge package deal which I'm sure the Mariners weren't willing to do. Him getting at bats in the OF I am sure was to showcase his ability to play the position.

Vlad Jr trade

Completely disagree with if you were in Young’s camp you would want that. Cole maybe but anyone in his camp knows he could make way more money as a SS. But it isn’t Cole’s decision. The franchise needs to do what is best for them and that is to not let JP hold them hostage.

I don’t think Vlad could be had unless the Mariners gave up basically everything they had. Pretty sure the rumor was Ford/Young/Emerson, with Montes and another top 10 guy. Which with this current system was just as good as the Soto deal IMO.

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[seattlefan75]

Completely disagree with if you were in Young’s camp you would want that. Cole maybe but anyone in his camp knows he could make way more money as a SS. But it isn’t Cole’s decision. The franchise needs to do what is best for them and that is to not let JP hold them hostage.

I don’t think Vlad could be had unless the Mariners gave up basically everything they had. Pretty sure the rumor was Ford/Young/Emerson, with Montes and another top 10 guy. Which with this current system was just as good as the Soto deal IMO.

I think how you get paid is relative to both how well you play and willingness to leave to the highest bidder. Manny Machado moved from SS to 3rd and he has been making a fortune in his career. I think if Jose Altuve would have left Houston earlier in his career going to the highest bidder in free agency he would be making more money today. Fancisco Lindor and Xander Boegarts when their contracts are up would make relatively the same at the end point. I think the key thing IMO opinion is the younger you are when your service time starts to come to an end assuming you can play makes you more appealing to teams offering those 11+ year contracts.

As far as JP it is a tricky thing because us fans are thinking to trade him or bench him but its a little political as players around the league and agents will take notice how franchises treat their players when they have an off year with injuries. I am sure JP would be a little embarrassed to lose playing time getting benched over a rookie. At the same time he is apart of the problem this year of how bad the lineup as been but the franchise is stuck with him until 2026 because nobody in their right mind would want to trade for him and pay a guy 11 million to hit under .200.

I also heard the same about the Vlad deal that the asking price was very steep and I am glad we didn't pull the trigger unless some kind of extension was already in place. The Jays will be in tough spot soon as the price tag will be lower as Vlads service time comes to an end and he can test free agency and all they will get is a comp pick

 

[wazzu31]

As far as JP it is a tricky thing because us fans are thinking to trade him or bench him but its a little political as players around the league and agents will take notice how franchises treat their players when they have an off year with injuries. I am sure JP would be a little embarrassed to lose playing time getting benched over a rookie. At the same time he is apart of the problem this year of how bad the lineup as been but the franchise is stuck with him until 2026 because nobody in their right mind would want to trade for him and pay a guy 11 million to hit under .200.

There is nothing tricky about JP. The Mariners are his boss and he should not be a starting SS. He is having a bad year, but it isn’t a down year. He has had one good offensive season for a SS. Players and agents around the league are irrelevant. You can’t intentionally hurt your team to appease people who won’t sign here anyway. I’m not saying bench him or DFA him, his position should be 2B. And if he feels “embarassed” about switching position then they should intentionally embarass him by taking away his captain status.

 

[seattlefan75]

There is nothing tricky about JP. The Mariners are his boss and he should not be a starting SS. He is having a bad year, but it isn’t a down year. He has had one good offensive season for a SS. Players and agents around the league are irrelevant. You can’t intentionally hurt your team to appease people who won’t sign here anyway. I’m not saying bench him or DFA him, his position should be 2B. And if he feels “embarassed” about switching position then they should intentionally embarass him by taking away his captain status.

dang lol you would take away his captain status? Honestly I don't think they gave him that title because of his play even though this season has been terrible. I think he was given it because he was loved by both management and the players which is important when dealing with issues behind closed doors. I would say in the offseason assuming JP comes back to give him that time and spring training to play 2nd to see if it works but TBH if I had to choose between a rookie and a veteran to switch positions I would say the rookie would have to earn his stripes and if he pans out he can choose to move back to his natural position.

 

[wazzu31]

dang lol you would take away his captain status? Honestly I don't think they gave him that title because of his play even though this season has been terrible. I think he was given it because he was loved by both management and the players which is important when dealing with issues behind closed doors. I would say in the offseason assuming JP comes back to give him that time and spring training to play 2nd to see if it works but TBH if I had to choose between a rookie and a veteran to switch positions I would say the rookie would have to earn his stripes and if he pans out he can choose to move back to his natural position.

If he refused to move to 2B if asked then yes. I didn’t say just go do it. Doesn’t your theory of moving a rookie instead of an established vet have to do with that established vet being good at his position?