Manning chooses Broncos

[Southern9er]

I guess I see this as a "he can never fail, because he's never being given everything to succeed" argument. What constitutes a fair shake? On offense last year, he had first round picks at both tackles, two WR's, and an all pro TE, in addition to high draft picks at RB, C, and both G's. I would call that more than a fair shake. Many QB's in this league have done more with less.

Now we're being asked to wait and see what he can do with another two first rounders at WR. Maybe I'm being critical before he fails, but nothing in his history suggests he is going to succeed with these new weapons. My criticism of his future expectation is based soley on his past failures.

That's half the story...what about that group being, coincidentally enough, ranked #26 (the O-line). He also had the WR ranked #10 for dropped passes...who should get bonus points for tipping passes to the other team...thus beating out Roddy White.

I agree with that last part absolutely, that is where most of us split, excellent comment. However, just as you say that, one can also say "...nothing in his history suggests he is going to fail with these new weapons"...he's never had that before and other than Turner & McCarthy (for one year) he's NEVER had good coaching.

I am willing to keep going and give him another chance; however, I understand those who are not willing...I always like an underdog and I think Smith is just beginning to bloom, how many other top QB prospects had his kind of beginning to the NFL...is it reasonable to assume he (or anyone) should have succeeded given those circumstances? I opine not...

 

[RedneckNiner]

I like Tebow as a person not as the QB of the Niners unless they bring in Steve Young to work with him.

 

[Southern9er]

His new campaign. Fairly predictable.

Skip Bayless: I'd love to see Tim Tebow as the starting QB for the San Francisco 49ers, coached by a former "gamer" QB w/ great intangibles, Harbaugh.

:bj:

or



Couldn't figure out which one was most appropriate for Bayless' comment...puke has got to be it...

 

[iHATEdodgers]

I guess I see this as a "he can never fail, because he's never being given everything to succeed" argument. What constitutes a fair shake? On offense last year, he had first round picks at both tackles, two WR's, and an all pro TE, in addition to high draft picks at RB, C, and both G's. I would call that more than a fair shake. Many QB's in this league have done more with less.

Now we're being asked to wait and see what he can do with another two first rounders at WR. Maybe I'm being critical before he fails, but nothing in his history suggests he is going to succeed with these new weapons. My criticism of his future expectation is based soley on his past failures.

We did get to the NFC Championship game. Not the ultimate success but I would say last season was a resounding success, so does that mean he's proven if you surround him with talent the Niners can succeed?

 

[beardown07]

Maybe he just suffers from Hippomania??

 

[ChrisPozz]

Failed ownership effort may have prompted Manning to turn down Titans | ProFootballTalk

 

[Crimsoncrew]

That's half the story...what about that group being, coincidentally enough, ranked #26 (the O-line). He also had the WR ranked #10 for dropped passes...who should get bonus points for tipping passes to the other team...thus beating out Roddy White.

Bullshit. Crabtree had a problem tipping up passes early in the season in 2010. He had no issues with that last year. Smith threw two INTs when targeting Crabtree. The first was a throw that was completely off against Detroit, about six yards behind Crabtree and way over his head. The second was a play in the red zone against Arizona where Smith rolled away from pressure and Daryl Washington undercut the route to make a clean leaping grab. So Crabtree didn't get his hands on either INT Smith threw when targeting him this year.

This is the equivalent of saying Smith is terrible because we went 0-5 to start the 2010 season. As Clyde pointed out, it's the guys who so adamantly defend Smith that treat Cratbree the same way Cazic treated Smith. It's pretty frickin' ironic.

And you're right about one thing: Crabtree was tied for 10th in dropped passes. With 13 other guys. It's worth mentioning that two of the guys he was tied with were Hakeem Nicks and Victor Cruz. How is it that Eli had such a good season when two of his receivers were ranked 10th in drops, his OL was one of the worst in the league, and his RBs - when Bradshaw was healthy - were in the bottom half of the league? To steal one of Iguana's favorite phrases, it would seem that a surgeon can do damn fine work with a butter knife after all.

 

[threelittleturds]

I guess I see this as a "he can never fail, because he's never being given everything to succeed" argument. What constitutes a fair shake? On offense last year, he had first round picks at both tackles, two WR's, and an all pro TE, in addition to high draft picks at RB, C, and both G's. I would call that more than a fair shake. Many QB's in this league have done more with less.

Now we're being asked to wait and see what he can do with another two first rounders at WR. Maybe I'm being critical before he fails, but nothing in his history suggests he is going to succeed with these new weapons. My criticism of his future expectation is based soley on his past failures.

I only disagree with you saying Smith should have been better because he had 2 1st round WRs last year. Even though Braylon Edwards, Ted Ginn and Crabtree were all drafted in the 1st round... only Edwards has actually lived up to his 1st round billing and he only did for a handful of years with 1 exceptional year.... and Edwards only played 2 games at full health this past season??

Who knows about Crabtree, I believe that he'd be better with a star QB but he obviously isn't talented enough to elevate a QB like Smith. In the way that Megatron made Shaun Hill look great 2 years ago.

As much as I believe Smith will only put up ProBowl numbers with a WR talent at the level of Fitz or Megatron, I think its really unfair to say he should have been much better because he was throwing to Ginn, Crabtree and Edwards (for a few games)... just because they were 1st round talent.

 

[ViperVisor]

Bullshit. Crabtree had a problem tipping up passes early in the season in 2010. He had no issues with that last year. Smith threw two INTs when targeting Crabtree. The first was a throw that was completely off against Detroit, about six yards behind Crabtree and way over his head. The second was a play in the red zone against Arizona where Smith rolled away from pressure and Daryl Washington undercut the route to make a clean leaping grab. So Crabtree didn't get his hands on either INT Smith threw when targeting him this year.

This is the equivalent of saying Smith is terrible because we went 0-5 to start the 2010 season. As Clyde pointed out, it's the guys who so adamantly defend Smith that treat Cratbree the same way Cazic treated Smith. It's pretty frickin' ironic.

And you're right about one thing: Crabtree was tied for 10th in dropped passes. With 13 other guys. It's worth mentioning that two of the guys he was tied with were Hakeem Nicks and Victor Cruz. How is it that Eli had such a good season when two of his receivers were ranked 10th in drops, his OL was one of the worst in the league, and his RBs - when Bradshaw was healthy - were in the bottom half of the league? To steal one of Iguana's favorite phrases, it would seem that a surgeon can do damn fine work with a butter knife after all.

False Equivalency. There are irrational people or people who are lazy/ignorant and fail to use reason.

Crabtree has some talent and is OK. The dipshoots like Cazic would position Smith as a complete failure of a QB no shade of gray.

Overall Eli drop % was middle of the pack. 49ers 2nd to last.

Eli is better anyhow. But Eli's WRs would also from time to time make awesome plays.

Victor Cruz had 4 plays of 60+ yards. 319 yards with just 4 catches.
Nicks had 3 of his own.

We had a couple 50+ plays total.

Part of that is Smith and the offense. But I have little reason to believe Crabtree has that extra something to be great or even very good. Usually with the non QB positions you just occasionally need to see a spark of brilliance even in a bad situation to have a clue of potential.

 

[Bemular]

False Equivalency. There are irrational people or people who are lazy/ignorant and fail to use reason.

Crabtree has some talent and is OK. The dipshoots like Cazic would position Smith as a complete failure of a QB no shade of gray.

Overall Eli drop % was middle of the pack. 49ers 2nd to last.

Eli is better anyhow. But Eli's WRs would also from time to time make awesome plays.

Victor Cruz had 4 plays of 60+ yards. 319 yards with just 4 catches.
Nicks had 3 of his own.

We had a couple 50+ plays total.

Part of that is Smith and the offense. But I have little reason to believe Crabtree has that extra something to be great or even very good. Usually with the non QB positions you just occasionally need to see a spark of brilliance even in a bad situation to have a clue of potential.

False equivalency??? - Haha! Nicely stated and very factual - great post.

 

[Flyingiguana]

crabtree isn't even in the same league as cruz and nicks. there's a reason why we went and got the guy who's the 3rd option behind those guys...

 

[CalamityX11]

His new campaign. Fairly predictable.

Skip Bayless: I'd love to see Tim Tebow as the starting QB for the San Francisco 49ers, coached by a former "gamer" QB w/ great intangibles, Harbaugh.

 

[clyde_carbon]

crabtree isn't even in the same league as cruz and nicks. there's a reason why we went and got the guy who's the 3rd option behind those guys...

Such BS. If only you make half the excuses for Crabtree, Staley, and the other offensive players that you consistently bring down as you do for Alex. You're the absolute inverse of Cazic. He used to prop up everyone else on offense to make Alex look worse than he is, while now you're discrediting everyone on offense to make Alex look better than he is. You've even thrown the coaching staff, including our coach of the year, under the bus to prop up Smith as a QB.

I've never seen such blind and unwarranted loyalty towards a player, and especially a QB, that has been largely disappointing for the majority of his career. It's excuse, after excuse, after excuse with you. At what point does Alex become the primary denominator for the ineptitude of this offense? Alex is not gonna be surrounded by a star studded cast at every offensive unit. That's NEVER gonna happen. While I don't think we had an amazing supporting cast last year, we had much better players than our 26th ranked offense indicated.

There's no question that the situation Alex has been thrown into wasn't ideal. But the main job of a legitimate starting QB is to make everyone else around him better. Offensive players are usually only as good, or as mediocre, or as bad as their QB is. An OL isn't gonna play their best if the QB isn't efficient at adjusting blitzing schemes at the LOS or at maneuvering within the pocket. RBs aren't gonna play their best if opposing defenses don't respect the passing game and consistently stack the box. WRs aren't gonna play their best if the QB isn't seeing the entire field and isn't taking chances with the football.

I'm not an Alex hater. In fact, I think most here remember that I used to defend him up and down ESPN's board his first three years in the league against guys like PlasmaHero and Cazic who were too quick to judge Alex as an NFL QB. But after 7 years if you can't tell what Alex is or isn't capable of, then you need to start looking at yourself.

I was wrong last year about Smith. I thought he'd completely implode in Harbaugh's quick timing and play-action based offense. He didn't. He emerged as a marginal starting QB and a decent game manager that doesn't turn the ball over. He did, however, display the same inefficiencies that he did years prior. An inability to create on his own or ad-lib when a play breaks down, an inability to throw WRs open and take chances with the ball, an inability to make pre-snap reads and calls on the LOS, and an in-ability to consistently place the ball where it needs to be. In 7 years that hasn't changed, and I'm not being a hate, I'm just being realistic.

Even Harbaugh in his short time as the 49ers HC saw Alex's limitations. We saw less timing patterns in SF than was did in Palo Alto. We saw less play-action in SF than saw in Palo Alto. Harbaugh essentially created a fishnet offense designed to limit Alex as much as possible and to ride the running game and defense to the playoffs. Taking Tim Tebow out of the equation, Alex Smith was dead last in the league in attempts last season. And I doubt it's because Harbaugh, who's a former QB, doesn't like throwing ball.

Even under Harbaugh Alex actually averaged LESS yards per game and LESS TDs per game than he did under Singletary. Is that the improvement everyone is talking about? Cam Newton, coming from a spread offense and 1 year of legitimate college ball, made more plays in one season than Alex has in the last three years in the NFL.

Why the hell should we bring Alex back? So we can eek our way through games hoping that we don't make any mistakes again? Bullseye is on our back now, and that's NOT gonna work again. At some point we're gonna need our QB to make plays, and Alex has not shown he can consistently do that in 7+ years he's been in a 49ers uniform.

Honestly, I don't even know why I'm wasting my time with this. You're just gonna come back with the same BS excuses like you usually do. Blaming the OL, the WRs, the coaches, the lockout, anything other than Alex himself. If it makes me a hater to point all of this out to you and the other extreme pro Alex posters, then I'm a motherfuckin' hater.

 

[Flyingiguana]

crabtree's lack of ability to get seperation and his chronic foot problems have nothing at all to do with alex smith or any other qb.

whether we bring back smith or not, i will want crabtree gone if he doesn't show he can perform. crabtree isn't a big guy and he doesn't have the quickness into and out of his breaks. even jerry rice commented about it.

maybe jerry rice is an alex smith fanboy as u would say...

 

[clyde_carbon]

Jerry Rice also said Alex sucks.

Or is he only right when he agrees with you?

 

[Flyingiguana]

Jerry Rice also said Alex sucks.

Or is he only right when he agrees with you?

when did he say this? musta been before this season. there's no disputing crabtree has problems getting seperation.

 

[ViperVisor]

You are either a hater or ignorant.

He was very good last year. Admit that fact and we can debate how likely it is he repeats that vs. a better or worse year and is the investment worth it.

And this offense was was never gonna be new hottness in 2011. But you are Miss-identifying the main reason for the severe pull back. The preseason pass protection was horrible. QBs were getting sacked 13% of the time.

 

[clyde_carbon]

when did he say this? musta been before this season. there's no disputing crabtree has problems getting seperation.

Really? You don't remember when Rice said that whomever decided to draft Alex should've been fired?

 

[clyde_carbon]

You are either a hater or ignorant.

He was very good last year. Admit that fact and we can debate how likely it is he repeats that vs. a better or worse year and is the investment worth it.

And this offense was was never gonna be new hottness in 2011. But you are Miss-identifying the main reason for the severe pull back. The preseason pass protection was horrible. QBs were getting sacked 13% of the time.

LOL.

 

[ViperVisor]

LOL.

We went over this before. It is obvious to most people.
3rd in the voting for the A.P. Comeback Player of the Year Award.
They gave him votes cause he was very good. Ryan Grant came back and was just OK.