Malcolm Butler "wants to be a Patriot for life"

[PatsFan2003]

Well from what I understand they offered him a deal where he was only going to make $6-7 million. That is maybe half of what he would make on the open market so I"m sure it felt a bit like an insult to get such an offer. Then throw in having the team turn around and pay a CB from another team $14 million yeah not the best feeling in the world.

Sure. I'm sure that would piss him off but that's Belichick doing what he thinks is best for the team. And yes he is an incredible hard-ass.. So Butler has a good reason to be upset. Still there are choices he can make and I think doing something dramatic like holding out is not the best. Maybe they'll make a contract and pay him, make a contract and trade him, maybe they'll franchise next year. In most of those of scenarios he'll get paid well. But he needs to keep his focus on playing well.

 

[soxfan1468927]

it wouldn't matter, new england has essentially owned the entire NFL over the past 16 years. Put them in any division and they'll likely be contending for that division every season, if not outright owning it. This graph details it all through the season before last, and of course, this past season was the same story yet again.

This graph needs an update:

Cardinals: 3-1
Falcons: 5-0
Ravens: 8-3
Bills: 29-5
Bengals: 7-2
Browns: 6-2
Broncos: 9-9
Texans: 8-1
Chiefs: 6-2
Dolphins: 22-12
Jets: 25-11
Eagles: 4-1
Steelers: 10-3
49ers: 3-1
Seahawks: 3-2
Titans: 6-1

 

[Rex Racer]

He's bi-polar

 

[Rex Racer]

You're probably right, but the NFC East certainly makes it a bit easier.

New England is in the AFC East and they also have a better record against teams outside the division than they do against those in it during the BB/Brady era.

 

[Rex Racer]

Well from what I understand they offered him a deal where he was only going to make $6-7 million. That is maybe half of what he would make on the open market so I"m sure it felt a bit like an insult to get such an offer. Then throw in having the team turn around and pay a CB from another team $14 million yeah not the best feeling in the world.

That offer was made last year when he had zero leverage. BB is not about the break the bank for a guy who is under team control for at least one more year, that's not how he rolls.

 

[PatsFan2003]

Terence Newman wants to play for a Ring

Terence Newman says deal is 'imminent,' wants a shot at 'winning a ring'

 

[soxfan1468927]

New England is in the AFC East and they also have a better record against teams outside the division than they do against those in it during the BB/Brady era.

With Brady as the starter, they have a .791 winning percentage in games within the division and .764 in games played outside the division. That's including playoff games.

 

[Rex Racer]

With Brady as the starter, they have a .791 winning percentage in games within the division and .764 in games played outside the division. That's including playoff games.

I was refering to a stat that did not include playoff games.

 

[soxfan1468927]

I was refering to a stat that did not include playoff games.

Doesn't affect it that much. With Brady as the starter they have a .798 winning percentage against division teams and .767 outside of the division.

 

[BigKen]

Well from what I understand they offered him a deal where he was only going to make $6-7 million. That is maybe half of what he would make on the open market so I"m sure it felt a bit like an insult to get such an offer. Then throw in having the team turn around and pay a CB from another team $14 million yeah not the best feeling in the world.

Let's get all of the pieces in place and in order.

The offer the Patriots made to Butler was between $6M-$&M a year for 4 years with about half guaranteed. The offer was made last AUGUST 2016, not 2017. They tried to get him signed BEFORE the season started. He flat out refused the offer and did not want to negotiate. Some people think his agent was behind it, others think but is getting an ego. Either way, he had an opportunity to make 10X what he did. He could also have gotten seriously injured and never played another game of professional football.

He made it through 2016 and is now being treated as a restricted free agent as the CBA and NFL dictate. Patriots are playing by the rules. If Butler doesn't sign by June 16, 2017, the tender offer reverts to 110% of his 2016 salary or $660,000. He can pull a Logan Mankins and hold out, but he's not Logan Mankins. He may be listening to all of those TV cement heads who have somehow placed him as one of the top 5 CBs in the NFL. He's good but he's not in the top 5. I'm not sure if he's actually top 10. He does not cover #1 WRs over 6'2". He may play in a double team, but not 1 on 1. He's only 5'10" on a good day.

 

[flyingelvis]

Let's get all of the pieces in place and in order.

The offer the Patriots made to Butler was between $6M-$&M a year for 4 years with about half guaranteed. The offer was made last AUGUST 2016, not 2017. They tried to get him signed BEFORE the season started. He flat out refused the offer and did not want to negotiate. Some people think his agent was behind it, others think but is getting an ego. Either way, he had an opportunity to make 10X what he did. He could also have gotten seriously injured and never played another game of professional football.

He made it through 2016 and is now being treated as a restricted free agent as the CBA and NFL dictate. Patriots are playing by the rules. If Butler doesn't sign by June 16, 2017, the tender offer reverts to 110% of his 2016 salary or $660,000. He can pull a Logan Mankins and hold out, but he's not Logan Mankins. He may be listening to all of those TV cement heads who have somehow placed him as one of the top 5 CBs in the NFL. He's good but he's not in the top 5. I'm not sure if he's actually top 10. He does not cover #1 WRs over 6'2". He may play in a double team, but not 1 on 1. He's only 5'10" on a good day.

Without top end speed. There is a reason why he went undrafted.

I like Butler, he's a competitor but he and his agent badly handled this. He could learn from the Hightower situation. He could have been in the same situation next year.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Exactly. It has gotten to the point where I don't even pay attention to what they do. As long as BB and Brady are there they will be in the final 4.

This is true... Father time is the only thing that will finally stop that from happening... But as of now, Brady still looks effin awesome...

 

[cdumler7]

Let's get all of the pieces in place and in order.

The offer the Patriots made to Butler was between $6M-$&M a year for 4 years with about half guaranteed. The offer was made last AUGUST 2016, not 2017. They tried to get him signed BEFORE the season started. He flat out refused the offer and did not want to negotiate. Some people think his agent was behind it, others think but is getting an ego. Either way, he had an opportunity to make 10X what he did. He could also have gotten seriously injured and never played another game of professional football.

He made it through 2016 and is now being treated as a restricted free agent as the CBA and NFL dictate. Patriots are playing by the rules. If Butler doesn't sign by June 16, 2017, the tender offer reverts to 110% of his 2016 salary or $660,000. He can pull a Logan Mankins and hold out, but he's not Logan Mankins. He may be listening to all of those TV cement heads who have somehow placed him as one of the top 5 CBs in the NFL. He's good but he's not in the top 5. I'm not sure if he's actually top 10. He does not cover #1 WRs over 6'2". He may play in a double team, but not 1 on 1. He's only 5'10" on a good day.

Ok well then let's get some things in order here...

1) Yes I know the deal was from last offseason. I'm guessing he was watching all these CB's getting paid in that $14 million range and decided to hold off from a deal like that knowing that yes there is risk he gets hurt but the payoff could be 10X more in the end overall.

2) Yes I know he is a RFA and the Pats have every right to have just put him with a 1st round designation and if they don't get an offer from another team just keep him at that price. Heck then probably collect a 3rd round comp pick the next offseason when he does get paid by another team.

3) My comments have been more just understanding why he is frustrated with the Pats though. He has wanted a deal now for 2 offseasons and while they have made him some offers nothing close to what he knows he is worth on the open market. Again we are talking deals that are maybe half the value other teams would be willing to pay him. And then he watches as they pay Gilmore huge money who Butler outplayed this past season. So they go out of the organization to pay somebody at the same position that was doing it better. Yeah I would be frustrated as well. Still doesn't mean the Pats have to pay him. And honestly this is how they have always operated so it shouldn't be a shock to him that this is happening.

 

[flyingelvis]

And honestly this is how they have always operated so it shouldn't be a shock to him that this is happening.

Not totally true. Gronk signed an extension before he reached FA for example. I'd be willing to bet Butler had the same opportunity. Then when he didn't, he was tendered. He and his agent has taken it to the point where it is now. Refusing to sign the tender offer and so the Pats appear to have moved on by signing Gilmore.

I think his agent really did him a disservice here. Either sign an extension before it gets to this point, or play out your contract like Hightower and explore the market as a UFA.

 

[cdumler7]

Not totally true. Gronk signed an extension before he reached FA for example. I'd be willing to bet Butler had the same opportunity. Then when he didn't, he was tendered. He and his agent has taken it to the point where it is now. Refusing to sign the tender offer and so the Pats appear to have moved on by signing Gilmore.

I think his agent really did him a disservice here. Either sign an extension before it gets to this point, or play out your contract like Hightower and explore the market as a UFA.

I understand that it doesn't always operate that way but most of the time it does. The Pats have shown they are willing to pay market price for very few players. Gronk and McCourty are 2 that come to mind that they did pay market value to at the time.

And no I don't think Butler and his agent have played this wrong at all. The extension the Pats offered while yes offering security that at least he would get more money in the short term was a deal that didn't come close to his value on the open market. Players bank on themselves all the time and that is what Butler did. Paid off as he had a great season on a Super Bowl winning team.

As for him holding off signing his tender. Do you realize how many players haven't signed their tenders right now? Most of them. Most wait until the last couple of weeks to sign it. They want to make the team sweat a little bit and maybe push them into doing a long-term contract. Most players do this and are told by their agent to do this. It is the only power they have in this situation as they are putting plenty of risk into the situation playing on a 1-year deal. So might as well wait until you have to sign it. Teams know this so they don't panic but might as well not make it easier on them by signing it right away.

 

[flyingelvis]

I understand that it doesn't always operate that way but most of the time it does. The Pats have shown they are willing to pay market price for very few players. Gronk and McCourty are 2 that come to mind that they did pay market value to at the time.

And no I don't think Butler and his agent have played this wrong at all. The extension the Pats offered while yes offering security that at least he would get more money in the short term was a deal that didn't come close to his value on the open market. Players bank on themselves all the time and that is what Butler did. Paid off as he had a great season on a Super Bowl winning team.

As for him holding off signing his tender. Do you realize how many players haven't signed their tenders right now? Most of them. Most wait until the last couple of weeks to sign it. They want to make the team sweat a little bit and maybe push them into doing a long-term contract. Most players do this and are told by their agent to do this. It is the only power they have in this situation as they are putting plenty of risk into the situation playing on a 1-year deal. So might as well wait until you have to sign it. Teams know this so they don't panic but might as well not make it easier on them by signing it right away.

We are talking about Belichick here. He waits for no man.

But seriously, the trade off signing an extension before reaching UFA is early security and protection from injury, getting cut etc.

Market value as a guy who has more years of team control vs. UFA is not apples to apples. That applies to anyone, including the top players. It's a leverage issue.

Let's see how this plays out. My bet is that he doesn't get near Gilmore money. Because the Saints or anyone needs to give up draft capital AND pay him.

 

[cdumler7]

We are talking about Belichick here. He waits for no man.

But seriously, the trade off signing an extension before reaching UFA is early security and protection from injury, getting cut etc.

Market value as a guy who has more years of team control vs. UFA is not apples to apples. That applies to anyone, including the top players. It's a leverage issue.

Let's see how this plays out. My bet is that he doesn't get near Gilmore money. Because the Saints or anyone needs to give up draft capital AND pay him.

I agree all of this is a leverage issue. And unfortunately for Butler being an undrafted guy has hurt him allowing the Pats to really control him quite a bit. It is nice that you can hit the market a year earlier than signed guys but the team like I said can pretty much have you on 3 1-year type deals. He is banking on himself at this point and that is the risk you take when doing that of possibly getting injured and getting nothing. I think it is a great thing for the Pats and Butler for him to be looking for deals with other teams. Pats get a 1st round pick back possibly (deal can be negotiated) and Butler gets his money. They are not going to pay him so might as well get something in return for him. He is a big loss talent wise to the team though. When you lose both Ryan and Butler in the same offseason with Gilmore being the only guy coming back in there is quite a bit of unknown at that point opposite Gilmore.

 

[BigKen]

I have a problem with Butler thinking he's worth as much as the other CBs. He's not required to do what Gilmore, Talib, Harris, etc are required to do. He can't take on a big WR at the line of scrimmage and redirect his route. He can't jump with those same guys in the field and muscle the ball away from them. He can a lot of other things like run step for step with most WRs and he has an incredible knack for getting in position to defend passes.

Granted, he's been a starter for two years, has played well in two Super Bowls. But he's still a restricted free agent and there are rules that everyone has to abide by. You may not like them, but he's not in apposition to force the Patriots to do his bidding. The reality of the situation is that the Patriots could say "we're not trading you. Simple as that. Take the tender or not. If you don't and decide to sit out, then sit out. We will not negotiate after June 16th. Your $3.91M becomes $660,000 or nothing at all. Just remember, we can franchise you in 2018. AND you can sit out 2018 if you please. Sit out two years, no pay and who do you think will sign you for top dollar in 2019??

Personally, I think he's getting bad advice from someone. Agent, family, friends........HT signed today for less than $11M a year......... Maybe it would be wise to rethink your demands.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I understand that it doesn't always operate that way but most of the time it does. The Pats have shown they are willing to pay market price for very few players. Gronk and McCourty are 2 that come to mind that they did pay market value to at the time.

And no I don't think Butler and his agent have played this wrong at all. The extension the Pats offered while yes offering security that at least he would get more money in the short term was a deal that didn't come close to his value on the open market. Players bank on themselves all the time and that is what Butler did. Paid off as he had a great season on a Super Bowl winning team.

As for him holding off signing his tender. Do you realize how many players haven't signed their tenders right now? Most of them. Most wait until the last couple of weeks to sign it. They want to make the team sweat a little bit and maybe push them into doing a long-term contract. Most players do this and are told by their agent to do this. It is the only power they have in this situation as they are putting plenty of risk into the situation playing on a 1-year deal. So might as well wait until you have to sign it. Teams know this so they don't panic but might as well not make it easier on them by signing it right away.

As each day passes Butler loses any leverage he may have had. If BB goes into the draft and Butler hasn't signed there is a good chance BB finds a new CB to replace Butler. It's not unheard of Butler was undrafted. HT signed now, the team is basically set for another strong season. Stay and have fun winning or sit and watch your value drop day by day.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

New England is in the AFC East and they also have a better record against teams outside the division than they do against those in it during the BB/Brady era.

Oh relax. You're SB champs.

Obviously the NFC was a type-o.