Looks like Jamal Adams

[richig07]

I thought they signed TJ Yates for some reason. Either way, those two teams are largely successful because they have an elite QB. As far as personnel go, the rest of their teams are subpar. NE has a HOF coach that helps them succeed, but GB without Rodgers is a sorry ass football team. If the front office thinks one of the first round QBs can be good, they should take him at 3. The rest of the team can be built through the rest of this draft and future drafts. Saying we have to build a good team before taking a shot at QB is dumb IMO.

Either way, those two teams are largely successful because they have an elite QB.

Well... yeah. Show me a team without an elite QB, that is consistently a contender... you can't. That's like saying; "that guy is successful because he has a billion dollars". Okay, well, we get that... it's the whole "finding the elite QB" part that's difficult. Not pointing out the teams that do have one, and mentioning that "it really helps, we should get one of those". Every single, solitary team in this league wants an elite QB. Every year, a multitude of teams select a first round QB, hoping he is "elite". The vast majority are not.

the rest of their teams are subpar

The rest of NE's team is not subpar, in the least.

Saying we have to build a good team before taking a shot at QB is dumb IMO

No one is saying that dude. You brought up two instances of teams who already had elite QB's, taking other top QB prospects to stash... and somehow equated it to what we would be doing if we took Watson.

It could not be more different.

A) Those teams had elite QB's and were SB contenders already. Therefore, GB's later first round pick they took Rodgers with, and NE's 2nd round pick they took Jimmy G with was not as pivotal to them pertaining to building a team. They already had damn good ones. They could afford to throw one at a QB they liked to stash, even if they did not need one. We are by no means SB contenders, and our draft picks mean the world to us.

B) Those two QB's fell well below their initial projected value and into those two team's laps. There is no QB we could take at #3, which would not be considered a big reach. Making this, again... a very different scenario.


If you want to say we should take Watson or whichever other QB... fine. However, using that analogy to justify it, just stinks. That's all. Polar opposite circumstances, in every single way.

Finding actual talent at positions that lack it, is far more important than "fostering competition" to us.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

Either way, those two teams are largely successful because they have an elite QB.

Well... yeah. Show me a team without an elite QB, that is consistently a contender... you can't. That's like saying; "that guy is successful because he has a billion dollars". Okay, well, we get that... it's the whole "finding the elite QB" part that's difficult. Not pointing out the teams that do have one, and mentioning that "it really helps, we should get one of those". Every single, solitary team in this league wants an elite QB. Every year, a multitude of teams select a first round QB, hoping he is "elite". The vast majority are not.

the rest of their teams are subpar

The rest of NE's team is not subpar, in the least.

Saying we have to build a good team before taking a shot at QB is dumb IMO

No one is saying that dude. You brought up two instances of teams who already had elite QB's, taking other top QB prospects to stash... and somehow equated it to what we would be doing if we took Watson.

It could not be more different.

A) Those teams had elite QB's and were SB contenders already. Therefore, GB's later first round pick they took Rodgers with, and NE's 2nd round pick they took Jimmy G with was not as pivotal to them pertaining to building a team. They already had damn good ones. They could afford to throw one at a QB they liked to stash, even if they did not need one. We are by no means SB contenders, and our draft picks mean the world to us.

B) Those two QB's fell well below their initial projected value and into those two team's laps. There is no QB we could take at #3, which would not be considered a big reach. Making this, again... a very different scenario.


If you want to say we should take Watson or whichever other QB... fine. However, using that analogy to justify it, just stinks. That's all. Polar opposite circumstances, in every single way.

Finding actual talent at positions that lack it, is far more important than "fostering competition" to us.

So, we don't lack talent at the QB position?

 

[anotheridiot]

If it's a CB it will be Lattimore.

I could still see them going with Jonathan Allen or if Cleveland or SF reach for a QB or Fournette, Solomon Thomas could fall to us, and that would be pretty difficult to pass on.


Kinda starting to get excited. I love the Draft.

I think it is pretty easy to pass on Allen or Thomas, even Myles. All the top D Linemen are 4-3 guys, so you are putting at least a year of development in them, most probably asking Thomas or Myles to gain 20 pounds or lose 20 pounds or Putting Allen between a guard and tackle not around a tackle. We just watched a whole team of professional players being forced to move to the 3-4 and ended up mostly being turned over.

They might get some situational stuff now, but none of them are starters. So either non starter D Linemen, or non starter QB, both #3 choices will not be what they do this year, next year, but in 2 years most probably.

If Myles is not chosen #1 or 2, the bears phone should be ringing off the hook.

 

[beardown07]

I think it is pretty easy to pass on Allen or Thomas, even Myles. All the top D Linemen are 4-3 guys, so you are putting at least a year of development in them, most probably asking Thomas or Myles to gain 20 pounds or lose 20 pounds or Putting Allen between a guard and tackle not around a tackle. We just watched a whole team of professional players being forced to move to the 3-4 and ended up mostly being turned over.

They might get some situational stuff now, but none of them are starters. So either non starter D Linemen, or non starter QB, both #3 choices will not be what they do this year, next year, but in 2 years most probably.

If Myles is not chosen #1 or 2, the bears phone should be ringing off the hook.

Ya, I don't know about that AI. The Draft is not even distinguishing between the 2 this year, (DE or OLB) they are just calling them all "edge rushers". Most teams incorporate both styles of defense at some point or another.

I think Garrett, Thomas and Allen will all be day 1 starters, regardless of which team they go to.

 

[anotheridiot]

Ya, I don't know about that AI. The Draft is not even distinguishing between the 2 this year, (DE or OLB) they are just calling them all "edge rushers". Most teams incorporate both styles of defense at some point or another.

I think Garrett, Thomas and Allen will all be day 1 starters, regardless of which team they go to.

I did a little bit of research on the three, each one was part of a 4 man front in college. My point was we definitely have already experienced the Fangio deal, so thats why I do not believe they will be a good choice for the bears. Are they great players worthy of 1,2 and 3? No question. But in a 3-4 scheme with possibilities of needing to drop in coverage. Not here.

As far as I see, OLB speed guys are currently considered 250 pound range, NT for the 3-4 is at least 300 if not 310 or more, where DE for the 3-4 like Hicks is the 280-290 range, about the size of the DT in the 4-3. Its just the positioning and always having 2 linemen to get thru.

Richard Dent dominated at around 270 in a 4-3, and thats about the size of Soloman and Garrett. That was 20 years ago though with the DE going around the tackle, or going inside if the guard engages the tackle. To me that puts them 20 over or 20 under and after watching them try to add weight to McClellan (bad example) I would prefer they get what they draft.

 

[BsGenius]

I believe we will take a QB at 3 If the one Pace wants is there. I believe the reason we got Glennon is so a rookie can sit a year as none of these guys are ready to start.

"If the one Pace wants is there" ?

Every QB will be avai

I did a little bit of research on the three, each one was part of a 4 man front in college. My point was we definitely have already experienced the Fangio deal, so thats why I do not believe they will be a good choice for the bears. Are they great players worthy of 1,2 and 3? No question. But in a 3-4 scheme with possibilities of needing to drop in coverage. Not here.

As far as I see, OLB speed guys are currently considered 250 pound range, NT for the 3-4 is at least 300 if not 310 or more, where DE for the 3-4 like Hicks is the 280-290 range, about the size of the DT in the 4-3. Its just the positioning and always having 2 linemen to get thru.

Richard Dent dominated at around 270 in a 4-3, and thats about the size of Soloman and Garrett. That was 20 years ago though with the DE going around the tackle, or going inside if the guard engages the tackle. To me that puts them 20 over or 20 under and after watching them try to add weight to McClellan (bad example) I would prefer they get what they draft.

Totally disagree. You draft talent not based on what scheme they played in. This is quite simply one of the dumbest i've heard anyone say about the draft. Drafting based on scheme maybe you do way later in the rounds when talent pool diminishes.

 

[anotheridiot]

"If the one Pace wants is there" ?

Totally disagree. You draft talent not based on what scheme they played in. This is quite simply one of the dumbest i've heard anyone say about the draft. Drafting based on scheme maybe you do way later in the rounds when talent pool diminishes.

Well thats why you are the genius. Me, I think its different for a 280 pound man who gained glory by going around one tackle to be placed between a guard and the tackle and expect the rush you he was drafted for, or take that talent and either tell him to add weight or lose weight and expect him to be a top 3 pick.

Is it much different that taking a QB that ran college in the pistol or shotgun and wanting him under center? The talent was there, he is being drafted for what he did, but never did a 5 or 7 step drop.

Was Eddie Goldman simply the best talent or did he beat out our second round picks because he played the 3-4 at Florida State?

Thats all we watched here when Fangio got here, talented professional men being brought here for the 4-3 system and being told to change and really, only getting one out of the entire roster in Young to make it in the new system. Houston is still here, but young is the one more noticeable.

 

[BsGenius]

Well thats why you are the genius. Me, I think its different for a 280 pound man who gained glory by going around one tackle to be placed between a guard and the tackle and expect the rush you he was drafted for, or take that talent and either tell him to add weight or lose weight and expect him to be a top 3 pick.

Is it much different that taking a QB that ran college in the pistol or shotgun and wanting him under center? The talent was there, he is being drafted for what he did, but never did a 5 or 7 step drop.

Was Eddie Goldman simply the best talent or did he beat out our second round picks because he played the 3-4 at Florida State?

Thats all we watched here when Fangio got here, talented professional men being brought here for the 4-3 system and being told to change and really, only getting one out of the entire roster in Young to make it in the new system. Houston is still here, but young is the one more noticeable.

I have no idea what you are saying.

I take talent, you take scheme, good luck.

 

[beardown07]

 

[anotheridiot]

I have no idea what you are saying.

I take talent, you take scheme, good luck.

Jonathan Allen is textbook 3 technique in a 4-3. He is worth the third pick because he is a textbook 3 technique defensive tackle and will thrive and be worthy of that pick in a 4-3.

Myles is the only one that might work, since Solomon is a tweener.

Were you paying attention when all the 4-3 PROFESSIONALS were turned over on this roster?

 

[beardown07]

Jonathan Allen is textbook 3 technique in a 4-3. He is worth the third pick because he is a textbook 3 technique defensive tackle and will thrive and be worthy of that pick in a 4-3.

Myles is the only one that might work, since Solomon is a tweener.

Were you paying attention when all the 4-3 PROFESSIONALS were turned over on this roster?

There is such a huge jump from college to pros, physically tho AI. Myles Garrett is a perfect example. He played in a 4-3, in college, but if he stays at that in the pros, he will need to add a significant amount of strength to hold his gap against the run. I believe most scouts see him as a 3-4 in the pros.

As for Allen, your textbook 4-3 comment is not accurate. He played in both schemes in his college career and excelled at both, arguably doing BETTER in a 3-4.

From Pro Football focus...

Versatility is key

Allen played primarily as a 4-3 defensive end in 2014, he played primarily as a 3-4 defensive end in 2015. What we’ve seen from him over the past two years is a player who can fill in on pretty much any spot on the defensive line, and do it well. Nose tackle? Played it. 3-tech? Played it. 5-tech? Ditto. He even spent time outside the offensive tackles and a little bit in a two point stance. Allen has been asked to fill a number of roles by the Alabama defense and he’s still graded out as one of the best interior defenders in the nation.

You would be foolish to pass on any of these top players due to schematic reasons. They are babies that haven't even taken their first steps yet. They'r frames and skillsets will undoubtedly improve once trainingfull-time, for a living.

 

[BsGenius]

Never heard any professional say "this player has all the talent in the world, he's amazing but he played in a 4-3 and we run a 3-4 so we're not drafting him". Just so utterly ludicrous that it's not even worth the genius's time to argue.

Talent always bubbles to the top. Take talent.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

"If the one Pace wants is there" ?

Every QB will be avai


Trubs may be the guy Pace wants and he might be gone before we pick.

 

[anotheridiot]

Never heard any professional say "this player has all the talent in the world, he's amazing but he played in a 4-3 and we run a 3-4 so we're not drafting him". Just so utterly ludicrous that it's not even worth the genius's time to argue.

Talent always bubbles to the top. Take talent.

Maybe thats the whole problem, some of us are here to exchange thoughts and ideas and some of us need to make every post an argument. We have a defensive coordinator and defensive minded head coach that forces pegs into the shape of their holes.

 

[BsGenius]

Maybe thats the whole problem, some of us are here to exchange thoughts and ideas and some of us need to make every post an argument. We have a defensive coordinator and defensive minded head coach that forces pegs into the shape of their holes.

Or maybe you are just wrong.

 

[richig07]

Seeing Allen's name back in the conversation for the #3 pick to us now. Interesting...

I'm now just subscribed to the fact that I have no clue who we are taking (except I know we're not taking a QB). I'm just going to kick back and enjoy the show.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Or maybe you are just wrong.

Hey NOW!!! AI is NEVER wrong... Never.

 

[anotheridiot]

Hey NOW!!! AI is NEVER wrong... Never.

That seems to be the only thing to bring you around is to tell me I am wrong. I thought you were a bears fan.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

Seeing Allen's name back in the conversation for the #3 pick to us now. Interesting...

I'm now just subscribed to the fact that I have no clue who we are taking (except I know we're not taking a QB). I'm just going to kick back and enjoy the show.

It'll be Watson.

 

[beardown07]

It'll be Watson.

I think I'd be pretty annoyed if they take Watson at 3.


I could see him falling to late first round, maybe even the top of the 2nd.



Not that it has any bearing, or any semblance of fact to it, but just for fun in throwing it out there....I got Watson with our second pick, in the SportsHoopla mock draft, and I was still kind of annoyed with it.

I'm not sold on the kid.