Lionstop1's official mock and draft-day discussion.

[gandydancer]

LionsTop1 you are Mayhew. Evans falls to 10. Somebody offers reasonable deal, you take him or trade?

Only because I imagine the answer is NO you take him. Say it is someone in the 20's and it is a first next year and 2nd this year. What say you?

 

[gandydancer]

Evans aint falling that far.

I never say never when Raiders and Vikes pick in front us. People do stupid shit every year to make you scratch your head.

 

[Thruthefog]

Just by his early morning texts, he's prepared for homicidal rage.

Be sure to tell him it's not good to hold that stuff in.

 

[lionstop1]

A job well done LionStop1. A tremendous amount of time, thought process was spent on all.


I'm not for a trade up to acquire a WR, however, maybe the coaching staff thinks they can fix the secondary with the players they have easier than by drafting another CB who would most likely struggle this year as is the norm for them. Hence the WR. No more 20 scoreless quarters. A potentially NFL record breaking offense versus hoping players on defense drafted this year make an impact. It's rare to have success with a player like Ansah who only played football for two years and to get quality play from D. Taylor too. We have to admit the D-Line, Tulloch, Levy and Quin are not considered question marks regarding their play even with some inconsistencies in the past from Levy and Fairley. It's just my thoughts on the possibility of how the coaching staff may be thinking.


GOOD LUCK TONIGHT ON YOUR FINAL EXAM.....

Thanks Big Blue, I'm studying and watching the sports channels right now too.

That's been one point I've been trying to make. The coaching staff may feel comfortable with what they have on defense regardless of what we think. It takes a lot of work to even consider trading up and I highly doubt that the Lions would press the issue here. There has been a lot of talk about Watkins possibly being the best player in the draft, so I dont see how anyone can think that a trade for him would be that bad.

But as I said, I think Watkins is the target but I think they would still trade for Evans or Mack if things fell the right way.

 

[gandydancer]

Just by his early morning texts, he's prepared for homicidal rage.

 

[lionstop1]

LionsTop1 you are Mayhew. Evans falls to 10. Somebody offers reasonable deal, you take him or trade?

Only because I imagine the answer is NO you take him. Say it is someone in the 20's and it is a first next year and 2nd this year. What say you?

Another 2nd and a 1st next year is too good to pass up.

 

[gandydancer]

Props to you Lionstop on the mock. Good converstaion piece heading into tonight.

 

[Old Lion]

I hope you are kidding with giving up a 1,3,4 this year AND A 1 NEXT YEAR!

No fricken way we give up a 1 next year. I like most of your picks, but I dont see the sense in tading up. I don't even think Watkins is much better than Beckham to justify giving away all that. I think we either trade back or take either Ebron or Beckham.

Then again it is the Lions so....

 

[gandydancer]

Another 2nd and a 1st next year is too good to pass up.

Thanks for answering...you passed the test. You did have a GM hat on and not just a love for a WR.

I did notice on first scenario you ran a 4.31 to the podium...

 

[gandydancer]

I'm not convinced that Centers Marcus Martin or Weston Richburg will be available in the 3rd round at all. I counted 14 teams needing Centers this year and four (Jax, Chi, Cincy and NYG) that are in our situation. Teams that have a need for a C; Jax, Atl, Det, Ten, NYG, Chi, Bal, AZ, GB, Cin, SD, NE, SF, Was.... This is why I'd actually be in favor of trading to #30 with SF. We grab that C at #45 and beat everyone to the punch. JMO

I would seriously have to scramble and look at what is there in the 25-35 range if this happened. I have been big on Richburg all along. Martin would add depth for this upcoming year on the whole OL and then move into C next year. Be hard passing him up if center was the pick and both are there. Martin is going late 1st rd. IMO though due to his versatility.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I know it's an extremely far fetched hypothetical

But, if SF is in such a "dire need" for a WR, like Beckhm Jr. whose draft stock has skyrocketed, and are fearful of him being gone top 12-13, why not accept a trade with them for their 1st #30, (two) 2nds. #56 and #61 and possibly an add in of their 4th rd #124.

That kind of trade down pretty much guarantees us an OLB/edge-rusher at #30 VanNoy
at #45 we get a replacement for Railoa, Weston Richburg or Martin
at #56 a WR Adams, Matthews, Moncrief
at #61 a S Bucannon, T. Brooks or T. Smith
at #76 a CB Jean-Baptiste, Gaines, McGill, Watkins or go DT's Reid/Quarles

Something like this above adds a lot of talent in players that many of us have spoken about.

The rest could be close to the following
#111 QB Aaron Murray
#124 DE Larry Webster (trade from 49er's)
#133 ILB Preston Brown (Louisville maybe a Tulloch replacement in 2 years)
#136 WR Josh Huff or Janis or K. Norwood
#189 OT/OG ?Justin Britt? or LT Larry Lucas (Kansas St 6' 8" 320)
#227 PK Nathan Freese

 

[jayfan]

Nice work, LionStop1. But if that trade, and it's terms, come to fruition, then Mayhew will eclipse Millen in my mind as the worst GM in Lions history.

 

[lionstop1]

I hope you are kidding with giving up a 1,3,4 this year AND A 1 NEXT YEAR!

No fricken way we give up a 1 next year. I like most of your but I dont see the sense in tading up. I don't even think Watkins is much better than Beckham to justify giving away all that. I think we either trade back or take either Ebron or Beckham.

Then again it is the Lions so....

No, I'm not kidding Old Lion. If the Lions are able to avoid giving up a second round pick this year, that's another starter for the defense. They get Watkins (or whoever) and then someone like Van Noy or Ward. In the fourth, they take a couple late round guys with great upside.

Mayhew said he would like to get at least 3 starters. I think they could.

 

[gandydancer]

But, if SF is in such a "dire need" for a WR, like Beckhm Jr. whose draft stock has skyrocketed, and are fearful of him being gone top 12-13, why not accept a trade with them for their 1st #30, (two) 2nds. #56 and #61 and possibly an add in of their 4th rd #124.

San Fran is one of the few teams in the 1 or 2 players away types. With 11 picks and the roster at hand there is NO way all these picks can stick around. It might not be with the Lions, but they will trade away 3-5 of them to move around for the guys they want.

 

[lionstop1]

But, if SF is in such a "dire need" for a WR, like Beckhm Jr. whose draft stock has skyrocketed, and are fearful of him being gone top 12-13, why not accept a trade with them for their 1st #30, (two) 2nds. #56 and #61 and possibly an add in of their 4th rd #124.

That kind of trade down pretty much guarantees us an OLB/edge-rusher at #30 VanNoy
at #45 we get a replacement for Railoa, Weston Richburg or Martin
at #56 a WR Adams, Matthews, Moncrief
at #61 a S Bucannon, T. Brooks or T. Smith
at #76 a CB Jean-Baptiste, Gaines, McGill, Watkins or go DT's Reid/Quarles

Something like this above adds a lot of talent in players that many of us have spoken about.

The rest could be close to the following
#111 QB Aaron Murray
#124 DE Larry Webster (trade from 49er's)
#133 ILB Preston Brown (Louisville maybe a Tulloch replacement in 2 years)
#136 WR Josh Huff or Janis or K. Norwood
#189 OT/OG ?Justin Britt? or LT Larry Lucas (Kansas St 6' 8" 320)
#227 PK Nathan Freese

I wouldnt mind something like that but 30 is a long way down. Sometimes (not all the time) you cant go with quantity over quality. If the Lions were at 18 or so, I wouldnt even be for a trade up. At ten though, you have to consider it.

 

[Naughtymax]

I'd take 30, 56, and 61 for 10 in this draft. The Lions could get a WR, a DE, and a safety out of that. Only rider is if one of the studs drops because 3 QBs are taken in the first 10.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Mayhew said he would like to get at least 3 starters. I think they could.

If Detroit trades away their 1st, 3rd, 4th and a 1st next year to move up (which I pray they do not, unless it is to move to #1 to draft Clowney), it'd be rather difficult to draft 3 starters, as after their 1st and 2nd round pick -- they wouldn't pick again until like pick 133 or something like that. Unless you consider a kicker one of the starters, as we currently don't have one. I'm think best case scenario if they trade up is possibly 2 starters.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Sometimes (not all the time) you cant go with quantity over quality.

Don't tell Martin Mayhew that -- that was his philosophy when he drafted Bentley, Greenwood and Green in the same year.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

But, if SF is in such a "dire need" for a WR, like Beckhm Jr. whose draft stock has skyrocketed, and are fearful of him being gone top 12-13, why not accept a trade with them for their 1st #30, (two) 2nds. #56 and #61 and possibly an add in of their 4th rd #124.

That kind of trade down pretty much guarantees us an OLB/edge-rusher at #30 VanNoy
at #45 we get a replacement for Railoa, Weston Richburg or Martin
at #56 a WR Adams, Matthews, Moncrief
at #61 a S Bucannon, T. Brooks or T. Smith
at #76 a CB Jean-Baptiste, Gaines, McGill, Watkins or go DT's Reid/Quarles

Something like this above adds a lot of talent in players that many of us have spoken about.

The rest could be close to the following
#111 QB Aaron Murray
#124 DE Larry Webster (trade from 49er's)
#133 ILB Preston Brown (Louisville maybe a Tulloch replacement in 2 years)
#136 WR Josh Huff or Janis or K. Norwood
#189 OT/OG ?Justin Britt? or LT Larry Lucas (Kansas St 6' 8" 320)
#227 PK Nathan Freese

I wouldnt mind something like that but 30 is a long way down. Sometimes (not all the time) you cant go with quantity over quality. If the Lions were at 18 or so, I wouldnt even be for a trade up. At ten though, you have to consider it.

I do not view a trade down scenario like this, if it could even possibly happen, as a quantity over quality consideration.

1st) If they move up and take Watkins or Evans, there goes at a minimum this years #10 and either #45 or #10, #76, #111 and a next year pick. That alone removes at least one impact player in either rounds 2 or 3.

2nd) Moving down to #30 and drafting VanNoy means he's an instant starter, unless he becomes Aaron Curry or Rolando McLain. = Impact Player

3rd) Drafting Adams, Matthews or Moncrief means they're immediate 3rd WR = impact player

4th) Drafting Richburg or Martin and having them sit for a year to learn to be the QB of line calls is a huge benefit for the sole purpose Raiola has time teach them the nuances of Pro-level line adjustment and calls plus the fact they aren't thrown into the foray in year 1 and expected to produce. That's impact for next year with a year of NFL camp, pre-season, off-season experience. = impact learning now for next year instead of being thrown to the wolves without a pick his brain teacher, Raiola in this case.

5th) Drafting a S like Bucannon, Brooks or Smith, IMO, means they would get 20%+ snaps to become acclimated and possibly more. = providing an impact similar to the snaps D. Taylor got in a limited time.

6th) adding a DT (Reid or Quarles) they may very well unseed Fluellen or Martin or learn for a year similar to Sammie Lee Hill did for us which is who Caraun Reid has been compared to. not an impact this year.

7th) Murray is a plus draft pick in that he comes in and learns, gets reps, and Golden Tate can have Murray's and Staff's WAGS any time he wants too..

8th) DE Larry Webster has nearly identical combine #'s compared to Clowney and may very well likely get reps on 3rd and long passing situations because that is what he's best at. Similar to West Virginia/Seattles Bruce Irvin. If he can get after the QB solely and be a disruptor this year. = impact this year.

9th) PK Nate Freese becomes the starter and has done extremely well 3 out of 4 years. = impact like drafting Martin last year.

Trade away 1 or 2 picks this year for Watkins or Evans plus a pick next year, that alleviates 1-2 impact players this year and one next year for a WR. Now drafting all these players, even ones that project to start/make an impact, does not mean they will actually do that.

Moves like this, which Myhew has never done, is what made NE, Bal, SF, GB successful in years past. Not the huge trade downs but still trading down a few times throughout the draft. I just named above what are likely 5 starters by next year at worse. VanNoy, Richburg, WR, Safety, DT or Webster. 2014 Starters would be VanNoy, WR, plenty of snaps Safety, Webster... Mayhew had Webster in for a private workout and talked him up (what else would we expect). All of this JMO..and not necessarily these players "only."

 

[lionstop1]

Im fine with getting two starters out of the first two rounds and then taking a kicker and a few others with the late picks.