Lets talk about Defensive Backs: Who's the best? Who is under the radar?

[WNY_FOOTBALL_DUDE]

Per ESPN and CBS Sports Top 50 rankings.

CORNERBACKS

Caleb Farley - Virginia Tech - 6'2 - 207 pounds
Thomas Graham Jr - Oregon - 5'11 - 196 pounds
Jaycee Horn - South Carolina - 6'1 - 205 pounds
Aaron Robinson - UCF - 6'0 - 189 pounds
Patrick Surtain - Alabama - 6'2 - 202 pounds
Asante Samuel Jr - Florida State - 5'10 - 184 pounds
Shaun Wade - Ohio State - 6'1 - 195 pounds

SAFETIES

Paris Ford - Pittsburgh - 6'0 - 190 pounds
Jevon Holland - Oregon - 6'1 - 201 pounds
Trevon Moehrig - TCU - 6'2- 202 pounds
Hamsah Nasirildeen - Florida State - 6'4 - 220 pounds

 

[Clayton]

I was watching some of Kelvin Joseph and he is really, really good. Or at least has crazy good upside. It seems like he is off some people's radar and some people are really hyping him up. I'm on the 'hype' side of that.

Tyree Gillespie played a lot of single-high at Mizzou but I'm not fully sure if he has the long speed for that in the NFL. He does have a great first step and can use that to get a lot done. There is a ton of 2020 film on him against top prospects in this draft so teams should be able to properly rate him in the draft. I think he'll be a starter in the league. I'd put him somewhere in rd3 but maybe he gets lost in the mix and ends up in rd4.

 

[Clayton]

I think this Cornerback class is really boom or bust.

Lets take Patrick Surtain II, for example. He played at Alabama with stacked dline talent. His strengths are jamming at the line and preventing the short stuff. Great tackler. His weakness is long speed and maybe preventing the big play. He is the exact type of player that playing at Alabama hides his weakest attribute. People say the combine is overrated but he needs to go to the combine so we can make sure he doesn't run a 4.6. He could still shut down the short stuff at the next level but might be limited as to which WRs he can cover. PS2 is ready to go day 1, though. If he is good then he is probably going to be an instant pro bowler if he goes to a team that does a lot of man coverage. Zone coverage is more popular in the NFL, though, so...I don't know. I wouldn't be stunned if he dropped a bit.

Farley has the limited sample size and needs to work on his tackling. Still my favorite CB prospect but he has to be developed.

Jaycee Horn will be a flag machine in the NFL if he doesn't change his technique. Only has two career INTs in college and they came in the same game. He could be great in the NFL but I wouldn't be shocked if he goes lower in the draft than people think.

 

[WNY_FOOTBALL_DUDE]

There are some recent risers by the DBs here.

 

[Diego Roll Tide]

I would draft Wade if I wanted to ensure 5-yd. TD swing passes...

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I would draft Wade if I wanted to ensure 5-yd. TD swing passes...

Hes gonna project as a safety imo

Dreadful year for him

 

[Diego Roll Tide]

Hes gonna project aa a safety imo

Drain
Dreadful year for him

I cut him some slack when it was DeVonta getting the ball, but Slade Bolden? I’m 55, and I think I could’ve caught Bolden given the angle he had.

 

[PDay8810]

I'm good with Richie Grant in Dallas round 3

 

[Iggloo]

I like some of the guys like Paulson Adebo and Ifeatu Melifonwu who look like they should be around at the top of the third round.

I think guys like Surtain Jr., Horn and Samuels Jr. will be decent players too but are maybe overhyped based on bloodlines.

Farley looks good but his injury history concerns me a lot. He is boom or bust IMO.

 

[Iggloo]

In terms of safeties, Richie Grant is the guy I would like to see Philly take. More of a coverage safety but in the NFL safeties can't hit anymore anyway so you might as well get ball hawks in the secondary.

 

[jarntt]

I think this Cornerback class is really boom or bust.

Lets take Patrick Surtain II, for example. He played at Alabama with stacked dline talent. His strengths are jamming at the line and preventing the short stuff. Great tackler. His weakness is long speed and maybe preventing the big play. He is the exact type of player that playing at Alabama hides his weakest attribute. People say the combine is overrated but he needs to go to the combine so we can make sure he doesn't run a 4.6. He could still shut down the short stuff at the next level but might be limited as to which WRs he can cover. PS2 is ready to go day 1, though. If he is good then he is probably going to be an instant pro bowler if he goes to a team that does a lot of man coverage. Zone coverage is more popular in the NFL, though, so...I don't know. I wouldn't be stunned if he dropped a bit.

Farley has the limited sample size and needs to work on his tackling. Still my favorite CB prospect but he has to be developed.

Jaycee Horn will be a flag machine in the NFL if he doesn't change his technique. Only has two career INTs in college and they came in the same game. He could be great in the NFL but I wouldn't be shocked if he goes lower in the draft than people think.

Curious on your thoughts on Surtain now. I think a lot of these "strengths and weaknesses" become group think and are never that valid in the first place. One person writes it and it becomes fact in some people's eyes.

 

[Clayton]

Curious on your thoughts on Surtain now. I think a lot of these "strengths and weaknesses" become group think and are never that valid in the first place. One person writes it and it becomes fact in some people's eyes.

Group think is very high on Surtain so no that doesn't apply.

His age and experience combo is the best of probably any prospect in the draft. I'm just skeptical of that footspeed.

 

[jarntt]

Group think is very high on Surtain so no that doesn't apply.

His age and experience combo is the best of probably any prospect in the draft. I'm just skeptical of that footspeed.

I'm talking about the idea he isn't fast enough which his 40 time (if you believe Pro Day 40's) dispels

 

[Clayton]

I'm talking about the idea he isn't fast enough which his 40 time (if you believe Pro Day 40's) dispels

Its not so much groupthink, though, as its trying to figure out what is happening when Surtain gives up plays. I think when I typed that out awhile back I was looking at the fact that he was timed at a 4.58 coming out of high school and the general expectation for Surtain was a 4.5.

So here is all of the snaps that Florida threw at Surtain:


Play 1: Surtain gets probably the toughest 1 on 1 matchup in college football with Pitts. It looks like some sort of deep out route towards the sideline. Surtain has inside leverage and just is kinda at the exact point to basically act as a wall with Pitts. Pitts gives me a shove and turns Surtain around and then gets the out but the route and throw were all busted at that point. That just looks like two raw college players and a college QB trying to make a play and doesn't look like an NFL play.

Play 2: Surtain has outside leverage. Pitts breaks in the middle and is NFL open for an easy throw and run. If Trask is more accurate then Pitts keeps on running until the safety makes a play on him.

Play 3: Surtain one on one against Grimes. Some hand fighting and a stop and go by Grimes but Surtain is right there. Then its a 50/50 ball and Grimes pushes Surtain in the back and he gets spun around and never sees the ball and Grimes runs in a 50 yd TD.

Play 4: Slow developing play to Pitts and Surtain breaks it up.

Play 5: Short play to Copeland and Surtain breaks it up.

So the footspeed problem does show up a little bit imo but part of the issue is that Florida was legitimately asking Surtain to cover these guys 1 on 1 and Pitts is a freak. The other thing I see is that he is great at attacking the catch point when its in front of him but had some issues tracking and technique when things got behind him. This might seem like a big deal but thats also when you have to factor in his age. That play against Grimes is something he can clean up.

My guess at this point is that Surtain will be a pro bowl type of guy if he ends up in a system where he gets safety help. That includes Zone systems like Cover 2 so there is some team flexibility. I don't think you're going to see PS2 Island but he can also help teams win games. I'd guess he is going somewhere in the 8-12 range.

 

[jarntt]

I think when I typed that out awhile back I was looking at the fact that he was timed at a 4.58 coming out of high school and the general expectation for Surtain was a 4.5.

Yeah, that's why I asked you. A lot of the people that were down on Surtain as an NFL corner were thinking that is what he was going to run as well. Now that he ran much faster I was wondering if people thinking that have changed their stance on him. Me, I only half believe those insane 40 times that Parsons, Pitts and Surtain ran at their Pro Days and I'm more a "what you did during the game" person and have little use for combine/Pro day stats. I am a big fan of Surtain though

 

[jarntt]

Foot speed and closing ground (see the slant) actually look good in those clips as does his coverage. The only knock I can give him on those plays is awareness on the ball in the air. A big trait NFL DBs need is making a play on the ball in tight coverage. But, like you said there were two pushoffs that made it a little tougher on him including on the TD. On the slant it looked like he may have had inside safety help so I can't say that was his responsibility. Time will tell what he is. I think he is the best corner in the draft but as we all know it likely takes a few years to find out

 

[Clayton]

I think he is the best corner in the draft but as we all know it likely takes a few years to find out

I think Surtain and Horn are the two safe picks. Farley needs to develop but I personally expect him to be the best but when you add in his lack of experience and injury history overall I think you're going to see a big dropoff after the first two in terms of draft range

 

[Golden Spur]

Gamecocks had two DB's declare early. I think Horn is over-rated, Israel Mukuamu is under-rated.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I think this Cornerback class is really boom or bust.

Lets take Patrick Surtain II, for example. He played at Alabama with stacked dline talent. His strengths are jamming at the line and preventing the short stuff. Great tackler. His weakness is long speed and maybe preventing the big play. He is the exact type of player that playing at Alabama hides his weakest attribute. People say the combine is overrated but he needs to go to the combine so we can make sure he doesn't run a 4.6. He could still shut down the short stuff at the next level but might be limited as to which WRs he can cover. PS2 is ready to go day 1, though. If he is good then he is probably going to be an instant pro bowler if he goes to a team that does a lot of man coverage. Zone coverage is more popular in the NFL, though, so...I don't know. I wouldn't be stunned if he dropped a bit.

Farley has the limited sample size and needs to work on his tackling. Still my favorite CB prospect but he has to be developed.

Jaycee Horn will be a flag machine in the NFL if he doesn't change his technique. Only has two career INTs in college and they came in the same game. He could be great in the NFL but I wouldn't be shocked if he goes lower in the draft than people think.

Outside of Lawrence and Sewell I think a lot of this draft is boom/bust. But that's not surprising given the COVID and NCAAF impact.

 

[jarntt]

Gamecocks had two DB's declare early. I think Horn is over-rated, Israel Mukuamu is under-rated.

I was talking with someone who said he was the better prospect of the two, which I don't agree with. I think he could have trouble with the quickness of the NFL game. I'm guessing he goes to the Saints at some point. Richard loves his long CBs