Lebron or Fat Lever

[BOTSLAYER]

At the mistake of making a serious comment in an Sman thread, Hammer are you seriously saying that Sman is making more (if any a) valid points over Horns and tlance?

 

[tlance]

Ok. Comparing stats from different eras with different pace of play is completely meaningless, but here you go:

First of all, the fact that Lever had more steals than LeBron is virtually meaningless. Steals are not necessarily indicative of good defense. Allen Iverson led the NBA in steals 3 times and he has never been considered a good defender.

Second, Lever was a point guard on an up tempo team. If he didn't average more assists than LeBron, who is a combo Forward, then something would be wrong. The fact that it is close speaks to LeBron's greatness.

Third, the rebound thing is quite simple. Lever was an excellent rebounder. Schematically though, point guards have an advantage when rebounding defensively. While all the big men battle for position, the PG almost always has a clear shot to go get it since his man is getting back on transition D. While the 2 7 footers crush each other, Lever comes in over the top and snatches the ball, a la Jason Kidd. This is what people in the industry call an "engaged rebound". It is rare for a guard to average as many boards as Lever, but that does not make him a better rebounder than Lebron.

This is my last post on this thread, because it is impossible to have a real conversation with you, but do you really suggest that a player who was selected as an all-star reserve twice is comparable to a 4 time MVP? C'mon man. LeBron haters need to grow up.

 

[Sman2011]

Ok. Comparing stats from different eras with different pace of play is completely meaningless, but here you go:

First of all, the fact that Lever had more steals than LeBron is virtually meaningless. Steals are not necessarily indicative of good defense. Allen Iverson led the NBA in steals 3 times and he has never been considered a good defender.

Second, Lever was a point guard on an up tempo team. If he didn't average more assists than LeBron, who is a combo Forward, then something would be wrong. The fact that it is close speaks to LeBron's greatness.

Third, the rebound thing is quite simple. Lever was an excellent rebounder. Schematically though, point guards have an advantage when rebounding defensively. While all the big men battle for position, the PG almost always has a clear shot to go get it since his man is getting back on transition D. While the 2 7 footers crush each other, Lever comes in over the top and snatches the ball, a la Jason Kidd. This is what people in the industry call an "engaged rebound". It is rare for a guard to average as many boards as Lever, but that does not make him a better rebounder than Lebron.

This is my last post on this thread, because it is impossible to have a real conversation with you, but do you really suggest that a player who was selected as an all-star reserve twice is comparable to a 4 time MVP? C'mon man. LeBron haters need to grow up.

I'm not necessarily saying Lever is better than lebron. I'm just showing you how over-rated Lebron is...The media makes such a big deal about this guy, but what has Lebron achieved in basketball? The 4 Mvp's are worthless to me, since they're voted on by the media who have been trained to Adore Lebron.

I don't care about awards Voted on. I want to know what has Lebron Achieved on the court? First of all, we know he disgraced America with his 2 bronze medals.

He was Swept in the finals.

Twice he had the best record in cleveland and failed to make the finals.

He embarrassed himself against Dallas in the finals...

Finally he wins an Asterisk-title in a shortened season, playing beside 2 Superstars...

So everyone's suppossed to believe he's the greatest player ever? Are you kidding me?

That's why I bring up a guy like Fat Lever, who is 6 inches shorter and 80 less pounds and does the same thing that Lebron is supposed to be famous for: triple doubles.

Fat Lever has 42 triple doubles. 16 in one season....

Fat Lever has better stats then Lebronf or a 4 year period. Better rebounds, assists, steals, and less turnovers....And way more triple doubles..

Perhaps if Fat Lever had Nike/espn worshipping his every move, people would say Fat Lever is the greatest ever....

Bottom line is Lebron is way over-rated. He has great regular season stats, but a career filled with disappointment after disappointment. Choke after choke...

And for you to say that Lebron is a better rebounder than the 6 '3' Fat Lever is laughable. Sorry, but the better rebounder is the guy with more rebounds. Not less. That's how it works.

Peace

 

[Shanemansj13]

^^^^We all know about Lebron. You are just saying same shit over and over, give it a rest man. Since you are a "Lakers" fan, talk about Kobe a little more and stop be so obsessed w/ LBJ. You nagging on him just means you are threatened by his greatness that he will be better than Kobe.
Grow up and make normal fucking threads!

 

[bocomo007]

You weren't watching basketball in 86-90, were you? The two best teams in NBA history (87 Lakers and 86 Celtics) played then and the defensive juggernaut of the Bad Boyz was quickly emerging. Basketball will never, as long as you live on this Earth, get any better than it was then. And you can take that to the bank.

That statement is nonsensical, man. Go back and watch basketball when teams (five guys playing as a team on both offense and defense) played smothering defense by default.

THIS!!!!

 

[bocomo007]

That assumes LEBRON would meekly continue to play a 2013 style in 1986.

If Lebron was allowed to physically play at the 1986 rules he would be an unstoppable force.
He would not simply play within the 2013 rules while everyone else hacked him 1986-style.

If you look at old footage, those guys were rail thin and relatively slow.
Lebron is chiseled musclebound monster of a freight train.

He would toss 1980s players around like pre-schoolers.
It would be scary if he had the freedom to play with the physicality of the 1986 era.

....................

As for flopping, once again it is era related.

The referees did not reward flops in 1986.
The referees reward flops in 2013.

Lebron would not flop if he played in 1986. There would be no advantage.
He might try it a few times and realize it does not work in 1986.

Conversely, everyone from 1986 would flop in 2013.
They would do it just as much as todays guys....BECAUSE IT WORKS..and helps your team.

disagree

those guys were a different breed

 

[tech_iceman]

Wilt averaged 30 points and 20 boards for his CAREER... how many 30-20 games has LeBron or anyone else in the current NBA had?

 

[Sman2011]

^^^^We all know about Lebron. You are just saying same shit over and over, give it a rest man. Since you are a "Lakers" fan, talk about Kobe a little more and stop be so obsessed w/ LBJ. You nagging on him just means you are threatened by his greatness that he will be better than Kobe.
Grow up and make normal fucking threads!

Lebron's in the finals a$$wipe. That's why we're talking about him...2-12 when the game mattered then showed up for garbage time to pad his stats...

Lebron again 10 points under his season average.

 

[shitsho]

Lebron's in the finals a$$wipe. That's why we're talking about him...2-12 when the game mattered then showed up for garbage time to pad his stats...

Lebron again 10 points under his season average.

Face it. Thats how great he is. Even if he never scored a point that was a game for the archives. True basketball people understand that. I promise if you ever type something that stupid again I'll fix it so that you get an electric shock every time you think of Kobe.

 

[Sman2011]

So you're saying Lebron played a great game? LOL..

Jordan once averaged 40 points in the finals. Lebron is averaging 17...LOL

 

[shitsho]

So you're saying Lebron played a great game? LOL..

Jordan once averaged 40 points in the finals. Lebron is averaging 17...LOL

Did you like that block? Probably not. I know you are still washing your eyes out with soap! You heard the man. When you are struggling on offense you find ways to impact the game. People that understand basketball realize how great of a game he played. It may not be up to what basketball rookies expect since they are only impressed by scoring but those of us that know a bit about basketball recognize an archive game. When did you start watching basketball? Was it 2008?

 

[Sman2011]

Did you like that block? Probably not. I know you are still washing your eyes out with soap! You heard the man. When you are struggling on offense you find ways to impact the game. People that understand basketball realize how great of a game he played. It may not be up to what basketball rookies expect since they are only impressed by scoring but those of us that know a bit about basketball recognize an archive game. When did you start watching basketball? Was it 2008?

The block occurred with 7 minutes left and the Heat up by 19 points...Yet the media is saying the block sparked the mia route. It happened in garbage time.

To lebron's credit he played great - during garbage time. When the game was on the line, Lebron was 2-12...Like I said Lebron is on his way to breaking his record of biggest droppoff in finals history. He's now 10 points below his season average.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

I don't expect the Heat to keep shooting like that in San Antonio.

 

[shitsho]

The block occurred with 7 minutes left and the Heat up by 19 points...Yet the media is saying the block sparked the mia route. It happened in garbage time.

To lebron's credit he played great - during garbage time. When the game was on the line, Lebron was 2-12...Like I said Lebron is on his way to breaking his record of biggest droppoff in finals history. He's now 10 points below his season average.

The block pretty much told the Spurs that a comeback was officially off the table for consideration. It was a punctuation mark. I just asked if you liked it or were your eyes still bleeding from the lye you used to scrub it from your sight. Lebron did what all the greats do. He found other ways to get his team the win besides scoring.

 

[Sman2011]

The block pretty much told the Spurs that a comeback was officially off the table for consideration. It was a punctuation mark. I just asked if you liked it or were your eyes still bleeding from the lye you used to scrub it from your sight. Lebron did what all the greats do. He found other ways to get his team the win besides scoring.

Enough already. Lebron had 3 assists and was 3-13 after 3 quarters. The team carried him (Wade, Anderson, Bosh, Chalmers)....It's laughable how the media wants to give this guy all the credit. If Lebron missed the next game and the team won, the media would rave about Lebron for how he supported the team from the bench....

The propaganda machine lives on.

 

[Heatles84]

Enough already. Lebron had 3 assists and was 3-13 after 3 quarters. The team carried him (Wade, Anderson, Bosh, Chalmers)....It's laughable how the media wants to give this guy all the credit. If Lebron missed the next game and the team won, the media would rave about Lebron for how he supported the team from the bench....

The propaganda machine lives on.

I still remember all of those 7-29, 6-24 games that Kobe had.....how one forgets.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Enough already. Lebron had 3 assists and was 3-13 after 3 quarters. The team carried him (Wade, Anderson, Bosh, Chalmers)....It's laughable how the media wants to give this guy all the credit. If Lebron missed the next game and the team won, the media would rave about Lebron for how he supported the team from the bench....

The propaganda machine lives on.

Do the 1st 3 quarters matter, I guess you could call him clutch!

You would have excuses if he avg'd 40 pts 10 rebounds and only 2 assists.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Duncan 3-13, Parker 5-14. If they played defense like that in SA, it will be a looong series for SA.

 

[shitsho]

Enough already. Lebron had 3 assists and was 3-13 after 3 quarters. The team carried him (Wade, Anderson, Bosh, Chalmers)....It's laughable how the media wants to give this guy all the credit. If Lebron missed the next game and the team won, the media would rave about Lebron for how he supported the team from the bench....

The propaganda machine lives on.

Its true the team supported Lebron during his offensive struggles. Thats what teams do for great leaders. Tell Kobe to take notes. If Lebron was not a great leader and all he did was hog the ball then the Heat would have lost. It takes being great to understand how to lead a team when you are off. That sequence of events at the end. Just wow! The signature block, the incredible assist to Ray, and the thunderous 2 hand smash off the forced turnover? Even Pop knew it was over and gave up. Must have hurt you deeply to see that performance right?

 

[C U Buff Fan1]

The one thing on this thread I will agree with and that the media makes a much bigger deal when LeBron makes a play than if anyone else makes a play. I agree that WAY too much was made about LeBron's block. It was a nice block against a white guy who can't jump. It in no way affected any part of the game except keeping 2 points off the board.

Earlier LeBron drove and kicked the ball out to the wing and the announcers just raved about the pass. Please, it was a basic pass but because it was LeBron it was the greatest pass ever.

But back to Fat Lever. As a Nuggets fan since the 70's I loved Fat Lever. Very few players had the heart that Lever had. 6"3" was a generous listing for Fat. We used to hang out at his resteraunt in Denver that he had with ex-Bronco safety Mike Harden, Fat N Mikes. I saw him in there and i'm 6-3 and he was shorter than I was. But he battled in the trenches for those rebounds. He had a couple 20-20 games.