Lebron or Fat Lever

[Sman2011]

Everyone wants to talk about how amazing Lebron is with his triple doubles. Personally I think it tends to be an over-rated stat. But since we're talking about trip-doub's who do you guys think is a better player?

"Fat" Lever or Lebron?

Lever retired with 43 triple doubles....Lever was definitely the better rebounder than Lebron....

Here was Lever's stats from 86-90 in his prime compared to Lebron's last 4 years

Rebounds Asst Stls t.o's ppg

Lebron (2010-13)
7.3 8.6 1.6 3.4 29.7
7.5 7.0 1.6 3.6 26.7
7.9 6.2 1.9 3.4 27.1
8.0 7.3 1.7 3.0 26.3


Lever (86-9)
8.9 8.0 2.5 2.0 18.0
8.1 7.8 2.7 2.2 18.9
9.3 7.9 2.7 2.2 19.8
9.3 6.5 2.1 2.0 18.3

As you can see Lever was clearly the better rebounder. The better assist man. Much better at steals. And much fewer assists....Though Lebron scored more....

One more stat that I think I find significant in Levers favor. Lever was the better rebounder than Lebron, even though Lebron was slightly bigger than Lever. Lebron is somewhere between 6 '8'-6'9' and 250 pounds....Lever was listed as 6 foot 3, 170 pounds...

How embarrassing is that?

 

[True Lakers Fan]

What about Oscar Robertson with 41 in a regular season or Wilt Chamberlain with 31 and Magic Johnson with 17?

If you want to move to the playoffs then Magic had 30

 

[HammerDown]

Lafayette

 

[True Lakers Fan]

These are the NBA players who have recorded the most triple-doubles in a season. I'm listing the top ten most triple-doubles in a season.
NBA players with most triple-doubles in a season
1. Oscar Robertson - 41
Oscar Robertson holds the NBA record for most triple-doubles in a season with 41. The Big O accomplished the feat during the 1961-62 season, when he actually averaged a triple-double (30.8 points, 12.5 rebounds, 11.4 assists per game) on the year. Oscar Robertson is the only player to average a triple-double for a season in NBA history.
During the 1961-62 season, Oscar Robertson played in 79 games, so he recorded a triple-double in over half the games in which he played. Oscar Robertson is the all-time leader in triple-doubles with 181.
2. Wilt Chamberlain - 31
Wilt Chamberlain had the second most triple-doubles in a NBA season with 31. Wilt had 31 triple-doubles during the 1967-68 season. During that season, Wilt Chamberlain also set the record for most consecutive triple-doubles in NBA history with nine.
It has to be noted that the NBA did not start counting steals and blocks as stats until the 1973-74 season. By most accounts, Wilt Chamberlain was a prolific shot blocker, and blocked 10 or more shots in a game many times. NBA historian Harvey Pollock claimed that he once saw Wilt block 25 shots in a playoff game.
In all likelihood, had the NBA kept blocked shots stats, Wilt Chamberlain would have had many more triple-double games in his career. The same is probably true of Oscar Robertson with steals, but to a lesser extent.
T-3. Oscar Robertson - 26
Oscar Robertson recorded 26 triple-doubles during his rookie season in 1960-61.
T-3. Oscar Robertson - 26
Oscar Robertson recorded 26 triple-doubles during the 1963-64 season.
T-5. Wilt Chamberlain - 22
Wilt Chamberlain had 22 triple-doubles during the 1966-67 season. Wilt did not get that many triple-doubles in his career prior to the 1965-66 season, when he started passing the ball a lot more.
As already stated, had the NBA counted blocked shots during Wilt's career, he would likely have logged many more triple-doubles.
T-5. Oscar Robertson - 22
The Big O racked up 22 triple-doubles during the 1964-65 season.
7. Oscar Robertson - 20
Oscar Robertson had 20 triple-doubles during the 1962-63 season.
8. Magic Johnson - 17
Magic Johnson had 17 triple-doubles during the 1988-89 NBA season. It's possible that Magic actually exceeded 17 triple-doubles in a season prior to the 1985-86 season. From stats on basketball-reference.com, I know Magic Johnson had 68 triple-doubles from 1986 to the end of his career.
Magic Johnson had 138 triple-doubles in his career, so he recorded 70 triple-doubles from 1980 through 1985. Whether he exceeded 17 in a year over that time frame is unknown.
ESPN usually lists a player's triple-doubles under their stats, but they list virtually nothing for Magic under triple-doubles. So they don't have the breakdown either.
9. Fat Lever - 16
Fat Lever recorded 16 of his career 43 triple-doubles during the 1987 season.
10. Michael Jordan - 15
Michael Jordan recorded 15 of his career 28 triple-doubles during the 1989 season. As mentioned above, Magic Johnson could easily have had 15 or 16 or more triple-doubles in a season from 1980 to 1985.
For those curious about it, the most triple-doubles LeBron James has had in a season is seven, which he accomplished in both 2008 and 2009.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Everybody loves triple-doubles, especially Magic Johnson. He has, by far, the most in playoff history – 30.
Active New York Knick Jason Kidd places a distant second with 11. His triple-double days seem behind him, though.
Both also feature on the all-time regular season list – second and third, respectively.
Check out Rajon Rondo already tied for third with fellow Boston Celtic Larry Bird. Before long, Rondo will surpass Kidd. But Magic? That will be very tough. I’m not saying this record is unbreakable, but it will be tough.
Updated May 22, 2013: LeBron James got his 9th in the wild OT Eastern Finals Game 1 win against the Indiana Pacers. James, like Rondo (and perhaps even more so) may have a shot at Johnson in time. Don’t “kidd” yourself, though. Trip-Dubs are hard to come by, especially in the postseason.

Updated June 7, 2013: LeBron got his 10th in Game 1 of the 2013 NBA Finals.
PLAYERTRIPLE-DOUBLES1.Magic Johnson302.Jason Kidd113.Larry Bird103.Rajon Rondo103.LeBron James
106.Wilt Chamberlain
97.Oscar Robertson88.John Havlicek59.Tim Duncan49.Charles Barkley49.Elgin Baylor49.Walt Frazier49.Scottie Pippen4

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

Sman sman sman

It is all about the era.
Raw numbers are useless when you compare players over 25 years apart.

Dudes routinely pulled down 18-20+ rebounds a game in the 60s.
Teams routinely scored 110 a game in the 1980s.
Stats need to be era adjusted.

Nobody in his right mind believes that guys like Shaq or Duncan were inferior rebounders cause they only got 11/game compared to guys who were averaging 24/game.
That is absurdity to think that Wilt would double the rebounds of Shaq in the same era.

That is why we use the PER statistic.

PER tends to balance any era bias.
It is the best way to compare guys who played 20 years apart.

A PER=15 is the number that the exact average player of his era would expect to accumulate in terms of points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, FG%, etc etc etc

Lebron PER for those same years:
31.3 best in NBA
27.3 best in NBA
30.7 best in NBA
31.6 best in NBA


Fat Lever PER for those same years:
20.8
20.5
20.6
19.9

You can clearly see that inflated numbers were far easier to come by in 86-90.

Lebron becomes infinitely more impressive to do it in his era.

 

[HammerDown]

Lafayette > Lebron

If I'm starting a team right now, I go with Fat.

 

[Sman2011]

Sman sman sman

It is all about the era.
Raw numbers are useless when you compare players over 25 years apart.

Dudes routinely pulled down 18-20+ rebounds a game in the 60s.
Teams routinely scored 110 a game in the 1980s.
Stats need to be era adjusted.

Nobody in his right mind believes that guys like Shaq or Duncan were inferior rebounders cause they only got 11/game compared to guys who were averaging 24/game.
That is absurdity to think that Wilt would double the rebounds of Shaq in the same era.

That is why we use the PER statistic.

PER tends to balance any era bias.
It is the best way to compare guys who played 20 years apart.

A PER=15 is the number that the exact average player of his era would expect to accumulate in terms of points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, FG%, etc etc etc

Lebron PER for those same years:
31.3 best in NBA
27.3 best in NBA
30.7 best in NBA
31.6 best in NBA


Fat Lever PER for those same years:
20.8
20.5
20.6
19.9

You can clearly see that inflated numbers were far easier to come by in 86-90.

Lebron becomes infinitely more impressive to do it in his era.

Horns do you want me to reach through the computer and smack you? You're being ridiculous. During those same 4 years that Fat Lever averaged 9 rebounds per year at 6 '3'. Jordan (6'6) averaged 6 rebs. And Magic (6 '9') averaged 6.5 rebounds...

So you're going to say that has to do with "era"? And Lebron is more impressive at 6 '9' 260 pounds getting 7.5 rebs a game, then Lever was getting 9 rebs a game at 6 foot 3 170?

Please!!!

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Lafayette > Lebron

If I'm starting a team right now, I go with Fat.

I expect you are saying that because we both know that Fat being old school would smack the shit out of Lebron

 

[HammerDown]

You can clearly see that inflated numbers were far easier to come by in 86-90.

You weren't watching basketball in 86-90, were you? The two best teams in NBA history (87 Lakers and 86 Celtics) played then and the defensive juggernaut of the Bad Boyz was quickly emerging. Basketball will never, as long as you live on this Earth, get any better than it was then. And you can take that to the bank.

That statement is nonsensical, man. Go back and watch basketball when teams (five guys playing as a team on both offense and defense) played smothering defense by default.

 

[HammerDown]

Man, I'd give anything I have to see the 2013 Heat play the 1987 Lakers in a seven game Championship series. Put it this way, it'd never come back to the Forum. The celebration would have to take place in SoBe.

 

[shitsho]

You guys are officially on crack if you really and truly believe Fat was better than Lebron is. Give me a friggin break!!

 

[HammerDown]

Lebron? Meh. Fat? The fuckin' MAN!

 

[Shanemansj13]

Sman sman sman

It is all about the era.
Raw numbers are useless when you compare players over 25 years apart.

Dudes routinely pulled down 18-20+ rebounds a game in the 60s.
Teams routinely scored 110 a game in the 1980s.
Stats need to be era adjusted.

Nobody in his right mind believes that guys like Shaq or Duncan were inferior rebounders cause they only got 11/game compared to guys who were averaging 24/game.
That is absurdity to think that Wilt would double the rebounds of Shaq in the same era.

That is why we use the PER statistic.

PER tends to balance any era bias.
It is the best way to compare guys who played 20 years apart.

A PER=15 is the number that the exact average player of his era would expect to accumulate in terms of points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, FG%, etc etc etc

Lebron PER for those same years:
31.3 best in NBA
27.3 best in NBA
30.7 best in NBA
31.6 best in NBA


Fat Lever PER for those same years:
20.8
20.5
20.6
19.9

You can clearly see that inflated numbers were far easier to come by in 86-90.

Lebron becomes infinitely more impressive to do it in his era.

Times are different now guys, it is virtually impossible to compare stats from different eras (PER is the closest to it).

But nobody is denying that basketball was better times back than, but this era players are so athletic it is hard to compare.

And "Fat Lever" is a little boy compared to Lebron!!!

 

[WhiteMamba]

Cool blast from the past. Thank you for the memories and recognition of one of the most overlooked players in the history of the game. My Dad took me too many TrailBlazers games in the early 80s.

Calvin Natt and Fat Lever were my 1st two favorite NBA players, along with Ricky Henderson from the A's and Marcus Allen from the Raiders.

I was a pissed off little boy when Portland shipped Natt and Lever to Denver for Kiki Vandeweghe.

Long live Lafayette Lever!!!

 

[WhiteMamba]

Also to the OP. Although I love Fat Lever, it is silly IMO to compare him to LeBron...

 

[TexasMan]

I'll take the one who played in a real era where you could hand check and who doesn't flop all over the place.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Also to the OP. Although I love Fat Lever, it is silly IMO to compare him to LeBron...

What Hammer is most likely thinking is Lever played a old school game and very physical. He doesn't think Lebron could hold up to the rough stuff like they used to do

 

[HammerDown]

Hell, Alex English would kick Lebron's ass.

 

[shitsho]

You guys forget Lebron doesn't have to be a passive victim in all this. I'm sure if he played in that era he would knock all those guys on their asses like a freight train hitting an old couch.