Kiper > Mayock

[Sharkonabicycle]

I don't care much for his schtick, but I think it's pure genius what Kiper has done...McShay at least played football (kinda) in college, worked his way up with a scouting firm and Mayock played in the league...Kiper more or less created a very lucrative career for himself as an expert analyst when he really doesn't know anymore about the game than the average NFL head on this board (being serious)...he made some contacts within the sport and he built his knowledge base through them...again genius imo.

Oh I completely agree. I think as a business man he's a genius as well. He knows what gets ratings and how to market the hell out of something. I just think his actual opinions and statements with regards to NFL players and the draft process in general are stupid. Not hard to go look at a bunch of mock sites, switch some things around to create controversy, and then give an opinion on it.

And I'm sure half the statements he makes are literally to cause controversy and rile people up. Part of my enjoyment from the draft comes from all the stupid things he and the rest of those guys say lol. So props to you Kiper.

 

[cdumler7]

No intent to take the thread sideways but I've seen a lot of Clowney, almost none of Mack aside from clips...I was not really surprised to hear Mayock say that...Clowney as certainly given us just cause, but just keeping it real, I have to wonder if Mack were in the same situation as Clowney coming into the season would we be talking about him in a similiar fashion...at the end of the day Mack was trying to play his way into the top of the draft...Clowney was trying to protect his position as a potential top 5 pick.

Few things with Mack. He was on the radar for Scouts the last few years. Because he was at a small school regulars like you and me had never heard of him. He isn't just a one-year wonder even though we only started hearing about him a few months ago. He is a guy that even though the rest of his team is pretty subpar he still was able to dominate even against good competition. Usually when you are scouting a player you look to see no matter the level of competition of they can still produce and he definitely does that.

Second I would say with Mack one of his biggest attributes is his attitude and just non-stop motor. The guy just doesn't take plays off which is exactly what you want in a guy especially when you are taking them this high in the draft.

Again I do think Clowney has the higher ceiling of the two but Mack has the lower floor of the two. Mack to me is going to be a 10 year starter in the NFL with very good production during that time. Of course unless he gets hurt. Clowney is a guy that could put up HOF type numbers but also could be out of the league in 4 years because of his lack of production on the field. So to me it just depends what you feel comfortable investing in early in the draft. So Mayock's picking Mack to me is him just saying the red flags with Clowney are just too much to ignore and he thinks Clowney will never live up to the hype surrounding him.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Few things with Mack. He was on the radar for Scouts the last few years. Because he was at a small school regulars like you and me had never heard of him. He isn't just a one-year wonder even though we only started hearing about him a few months ago. He is a guy that even though the rest of his team is pretty subpar he still was able to dominate even against good competition. Usually when you are scouting a player you look to see no matter the level of competition of they can still produce and he definitely does that.

Second I would say with Mack one of his biggest attributes is his attitude and just non-stop motor. The guy just doesn't take plays off which is exactly what you want in a guy especially when you are taking them this high in the draft.

Again I do think Clowney has the higher ceiling of the two but Mack has the lower floor of the two. Mack to me is going to be a 10 year starter in the NFL with very good production during that time. Of course unless he gets hurt. Clowney is a guy that could put up HOF type numbers but also could be out of the league in 4 years because of his lack of production on the field. So to me it just depends what you feel comfortable investing in early in the draft. So Mayock's picking Mack to me is him just saying the red flags with Clowney are just too much to ignore and he thinks Clowney will never live up to the hype surrounding him.

Good points, but Mack was still at a totally different mindset...being at a small school you have to be more driven if your objective is to play in the NFL...while he may have known he was already a draft worthy talent, it's not the same situation as Clowney...he literally had more to lose than gain from playing in college LY.

I like both players from a talent standpoint...if the talent is comparable, you always want the more motivated player and I think that's the angle Mayock is taking...no doubt Mack is the safer pick but better is another question.

 

[cdumler7]

Good points, but Mack was still at a totally different mindset...being at a small school you have to be more driven if your objective is to play in the NFL...while he may have known he was already a draft worthy talent, it's not the same situation as Clowney...he literally had more to lose than gain from playing in college LY.

I like both players from a talent standpoint...if the talent is comparable, you always want the more motivated player and I think that's the angle Mayock is taking...no doubt Mack is the safer pick but better is another question.

I understand that and for me that gives Clowney a bit of a pass on why he didn't play as hard this last year or sat out games. I still think his work ethic comes into question considering he did not condition hardly at all before the start of this last season. Conditioning has nothing to do with protecting yourself and if anything actually puts him at more risk to get hurt. It also brings up how much drive does he have if something as small as that comes into question. He also had a few incidents off the field and even teammates questioned him. Is he going to be that great locker room leader for them? I don't know.

So again I don't hold it against Mayock for wanting Mack over Clowney. Now if it were me I would still take Clowney over Mack as it would be too hard to pass up the chance to get a guy that really could be a future HOF type guy like Clowney.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I understand that and for me that gives Clowney a bit of a pass on why he didn't play as hard this last year or sat out games. I still think his work ethic comes into question considering he did not condition hardly at all before the start of this last season. Conditioning has nothing to do with protecting yourself and if anything actually puts him at more risk to get hurt. It also brings up how much drive does he have if something as small as that comes into question. He also had a few incidents off the field and even teammates questioned him. Is he going to be that great locker room leader for them? I don't know.

So again I don't hold it against Mayock for wanting Mack over Clowney. Now if it were me I would still take Clowney over Mack as it would be too hard to pass up the chance to get a guy that really could be a future HOF type guy like Clowney.

Agree...Clowney definitely needs to take ownership for his lack of conditioning and even for sitting out if he wasn't really hurt...that is a red flag and a big part of the reason I would not be anxious to trade up for him. Thus far...I think he came into the combine more prepared and probably motivated by the knocks he's taken.

 

[AngryNiner]

Yes, the whole package of Kiper is promoted by ESPN as a personality. It's sort of the same thing with Clayton. When do you ever see a Normal Joe on these networks? Never because no one wants to just get information, they want to be entertained by huge personalities like Stephen A.



Mayock is no different though! What about the time on NFL Network during the draft when they have Eisen on the left side of the screen and Mayock on the right and Eisen asks him "So what do you think about this new DE for the Cleveland Browns?" Mayock is furiously shuffling papers, goes silent for about 10 seconds then looks at the camera with a deer-in-the-headlights look and sheepishly admits "I've never heard of this guy."

Well... at least he admitted that he didnt know.
He could have just said something like, "this kid is explosive, has a tremendous motor and lower body strength."

I prefer McShay myself, but i have no hate toward Mayock or Kiper.
Dont watch NFLNetwork on Draft day anyway. Cant stand Warren Sapps fat head perpetually bobbling and Irven's astute analysis on who is a "Beast!" and who is not a "Beast!"
No thanks.

 

[Oldschool739]

Tell me I'm not the only one who likes Kiper and detests Mayock?

I like Kiper because he's a huge Ravens fan and Mayock is the guy that called Ozzie to check out Joe Flacco when Ryan was all the rage....I am grateful for that because Ozzie couldn't pick a good qb on his own if his life depended on it.....So I got respect for both, bias as it may be.....

 

[Shanemansj13]

An interesting test between the accuracy of Kiper and McShay.

Who Is the Better "Mocker", Mel Kiper or Todd McShay? - The Statistics Game | Minitab

Flip a coin!

 

[Shanemansj13]

Btw...Is anyone an ESPN insider to see what Kiper, Mcshay, or Maylock mocks are???

 

[cdumler7]

They haven't updated since early February so none of the risers and fallers in the combine will be shown.

 

[HammerDown]

Tell me I'm not the only one who likes Kiper and detests Mayock?

/bump

 

[Hangman]

I like Mayock more. He knows more about technique. But, I hate his lisp. Kiper I grew up on, he was the only one doing it in the day, but he has been known to take money from agents to hype up some guys and gets pissed when they slip in the draft. Then those guys turn out to be busts. McShay im iffy on. Sometimes he seems fine. Others he sounds like he has no clue about football at all.

On draft day Ill watch NFL network and try to ignore the lisp. Then I will switch to espn after my team picks and watch the pick with the dvr. So I end up watching both to see what all 3 say about the 9ers pick.

 

[Southieinnc]

I don't pay much attention to the writers names. Often They make a pick and then go about explain to me the logic why I don't like the pick. For me, I listen to their logic and then check to see if the facts bear this out.....

 

[jarntt]

As far as knowledge of picking NFL players and how the draft will go:
Kiper = Mayock = All other "draft gurus" = Internet Board poster = bag boy at Stop-n-Shop

 

[Iggloo]

Kiper is a total clown who has been a caricature of a draft expert, rather than an actual guy who does his homework, for several decades now. I find it hard to understand how anyone could think Kiper knows more than Mayock.

 

[Iggloo]

This.

Kiper just regurgitates what he hears from his sources IMO.

Mayock lost some cred' when he ranked Mack as the #1 overall prospect ahead of Clowney IMO.

Huh? He gained some cred on that!

 

[eaglesnut]

The blowing of Mayock is above the annoying threshold.

 

[jarntt]

Huh? He gained some cred on that!

You have to look at the date on that post, but as of now you are right. That is an interesting one to pick to try to make a point...

 

[cdumler7]

Huh? He gained some cred on that!

Haha when I opened the thread and read that I thought man right now Mayock is looking pretty darn impressive with that bold statement. I know Clowney can make a big comeback but Mack either way has shown to be a pretty darn good player that looks like he will have that 10-15 year career.

As for these guys I honestly like them each for something different.

Kiper--I do think he actually has some of the better inside sources because he has been doing this the longest. I know some of his stuff he spouts is BS but when he says there is something a brewing I usually trust he knows what he is talking about.

McShay--He is probably the most knowledgeable of the three in the late rounds. He doesn't always do the best with the 1st round work but I actually like to listen to him in the later rounds on prospects as he seems to be the guy that likes to watch the no name prospects more. He is the guy I would want on my scout team finding me those diamonds in the rough.

Mayock--He is the guy that just football wise knows his players. He knows what a football player looks like and is the one guy who can ignore the combine freaks and get down to can this guy actually play football the way a team will want them to?

 

[dredinis21]

Haha when I opened the thread and read that I thought man right now Mayock is looking pretty darn impressive with that bold statement. I know Clowney can make a big comeback but Mack either way has shown to be a pretty darn good player that looks like he will have that 10-15 year career.

As for these guys I honestly like them each for something different.

Kiper--I do think he actually has some of the better inside sources because he has been doing this the longest. I know some of his stuff he spouts is BS but when he says there is something a brewing I usually trust he knows what he is talking about.

McShay--He is probably the most knowledgeable of the three in the late rounds. He doesn't always do the best with the 1st round work but I actually like to listen to him in the later rounds on prospects as he seems to be the guy that likes to watch the no name prospects more. He is the guy I would want on my scout team finding me those diamonds in the rough.

Mayock--He is the guy that just football wise knows his players. He knows what a football player looks like and is the one guy who can ignore the combine freaks and get down to can this guy actually play football the way a team will want them to?

^^^This. Perfectly said sir.