Ken Norton needs to be fired

[flyerhawk]

It's tough to figure out exactly what is wrong with the secondary. Injuries? Partially. Scheme? Yes, that's a large part of the problem in my opinion. Coaches? Sure, to an extent. They aren't teaching these DB's what they are doing wrong. They aren't getting the problem fixed.

But.....at least a portion of the secondary's troubles can be explained by who they've had to face.

1. Matt Ryan: 4th in YPG, and 1st in total yards, Former MVP
2. Josh Allen: 7th in YPG, and 3rd in total yards
3. Kyler Murray: Only 13th in YPG, but he's also 8th in rushing yards per game (including RBs!!). So he's a bonafide dual threat to any defense.
4. Dak Prescott: Was 1st in YPG and total yards before his injury. He was killing it before he was injured.

So having those 4 QB's put up big numbers isn't unique to just the Seahawk's defense. They pretty much torch most teams that they play.

But then it's tough to explain why our defense still played so shitty against these four (five really) QB's

1. Kirk Cousins: decent middle tier guy who plays hot and cold.
2. Cam Newton: Former MVP that was playing much better when the season began and we played him. But he's really just not that good now.
3. Garopollo: We actually did a good job on him. It's the defenses lone victory against a QB this season.
4. Mullens: and then in the same game where we did good, we totally collapsed when Mullens came in and he lit us up for a huge stat line in just one quarter of football.
5. Fitzmagic: He's a decent QB who also plays extremely hot and cold. He was having a nice year before Tua was given the team. But we still shouldn't have allowed him 315 yards passing.

Who can figure it out? Not me. I just think we've played at least half our games against some top tier QB's so that can partially explain the high number of passing yards we give up. But that's just an excuse really. This team just needs to play better. I guess the good news is that we are ranked dead last as a defense so the only way we can go is up.

Allen threw the ball for 38 times, ran the ball 7 times, and was sacked 7 times. The pressure wasn't terrible on Sunday per se. But it could be that the blitzing is leaving too many gaps in the defense to be exploited. Which is troubling because Josh Allen isn't known for being able to read defenses.

 

[Anointed One]

Allen threw the ball for 38 times, ran the ball 7 times, and was sacked 7 times. The pressure wasn't terrible on Sunday per se. But it could be that the blitzing is leaving too many gaps in the defense to be exploited. Which is troubling because Josh Allen isn't known for being able to read defenses.

Seems like Allen was able to get rid of the ball so fast at times because the DB's were playing in a soft zone... When you blitz, you should be playing more man to man not dropping into a soft zone...

 

[Screamin12th]

look at the zone coverage scheme it's so bad. When a man comes through your zone you track and follow him through but the Hawks players just stop. They stop in their zone and do not track. This leaves HUGE voids in between the zones and WR's are just setting up in them. Also it seems that teams game plan for the Hawks zone and run players into the edges for easy wide open completions. I feel like they are playing way to much zone but i also feel like we do not have the skill on the back end to compete in man like it or not.

Diggs is to slow to rotate and cover any ground and Adams is a liability in the passing game right now, which sucks. The technique or lack there off by the CB is easy to see and they can not seem to track players even in man to man.

This team needs a new Positional coach for the Backend.

This is just my untrained assessment from a fan.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I guess Pete accepts being one of the worst defenses in history, not exactly the compete mantra... If we keep Norton at D coordinator it’s a wrap fella’s...

 

[flyerhawk]

I guess Pete accepts being one of the worst defenses in history, not exactly the compete mantra... If we keep Norton at D coordinator it’s a wrap fella’s...

What exactly do the fire Nortion people would happen if he was fired right now? Some new DC is going to come in an deploy a new scheme?

Whether we like it or not, this is Pete's defense and they are simply not executing. Defense is about discipline and execution. I just don't see how firing Norton mid-season is going to change that.

 

[FirebreathingMonkey]

I've just heard the Seattle Seahawks Defense is finally ready to go to Buffalo and start playing. Woo, this should be fun.














(dose anyone want to tell them we are playing the Rams now)

 

[dkmightyhammer]

What exactly do the fire Nortion people would happen if he was fired right now? Some new DC is going to come in an deploy a new scheme?

Whether we like it or not, this is Pete's defense and they are simply not executing. Defense is about discipline and execution. I just don't see how firing Norton mid-season is going to change that.

Sometimes teams fire coaches mid season and the effect it has on the team is it sends a message that management is done playing around. Some teams do much better after a coach has been fired. It lets the players know that anyone is expendable if they aren't doing their job.

I think you look at the Falcons this year as an example. They've been much better post Dan Quinn's firing. Not that Quinn was a terrible coach, but he wasn't get the W's. Maybe the Falcons would have turned their season around if Quinn had stayed, or maybe firing him helped motivate some players. We'll never know. The McCarthy firing in Green bay is maybe another example. GB had a losing season going. They fire MM and finish their last 4 games .500. Maybe they'd have finished .500 anyway, we don't know. But, It definitely didn't hurt those two teams to fire their coaches mid season. And they were head coaches. Norton is just a coordinator. And he's a DC who is coaching a last place defense currently. So what's the worry exactly? We can't get any worse. We are already the worst. So we shouldn't worry about that. The only way this defense can go is up.

I do think Norton's time has run it's course. With Norton only ever achieving average (at best) or worse results it's time to say goodbye. I think Schneider should have pulled the pin and fired him after that embarrassing effort against the Bills. I really just don't think this team's defense has anything to lose by changing schemes right now.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

What exactly do the fire Nortion people would happen if he was fired right now? Some new DC is going to come in an deploy a new scheme?

Whether we like it or not, this is Pete's defense and they are simply not executing. Defense is about discipline and execution. I just don't see how firing Norton mid-season is going to change that.

It’s not totally Pete’s defense, Norton is calling the shots, 6 years now and every year his defenses have been sub par ... Fire his arse and bring back Quinn YESTERDAY!! I guarantee you this defense will improve.... Quinn knows this system WELL!! You stick with what’s not working and bye bye season ... I would lay money down right now that the Seahawks defense would go from 32 overall to about 20th overall under Quinn, and that’s all we would need, that alone would make Seattle a legit threat with that offense ... But changing nothing is insanity, we’re gonna piss any chance we have goodbye ....

 

[returnofjakedog]

I think a midseason firing might be the only option for possible improvement at this point. But PC tends to be very loyal to his coaching staff so I doubt it will happen.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

I think a midseason firing might be the only option for possible improvement at this point. But PC tends to be very loyal to his coaching staff so I doubt it will happen.

Loyalty is great, but this defense is on pace to give up the most yards of all time. And not by a little either, by nearly 1000 yards!!! That's insane when you think about it. So definitely we should make the change at DC. It literally can't get worse.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Loyalty is great, but this defense is on pace to give up the most yards of all time. And not by a little either, by nearly 1000 yards!!! That's insane when you think about it. So definitely we should make the change at DC. It literally can't get worse.

I don't disagree. I'm just skeptical that Pete would do this.

 

[Screamin12th]

We have seen it in other things. The inability to change game plans till the late 4th quarter, holding onto players longer than they should and coaches. The Sad truth is this is Pete's Defense and it's fundamentally a total mess right now. They do not have a FS that can play single high because he doesn't have the range needed or the size to challenge. The CB's are average at best and none of them i think would be a starter this year on most other teams and that includes Shaquill Griffin. When you watch the all 22 video you see the players not dropping to the right depth or not tracking players through their zones. Right now they are reacting to action not reading it and reacting if you get my understanding. it's almost like they are to afraid to make a mistake so they take that extra second to react to make sure they are not wrong. To much thinking and 2nd guessing by players and the Backend is not fast enough to make up for mistakes or slow reactions.

Pete Defense is super basic because they want players flying around, the problem is these players look like they don't trust each other or the scheme or both! Being aggressive up front and blitzing is all good but when you got guys playing 8 yards off on a 3rd and 6 it really makes no sense. Rarely do you see them get right up on the WR and challenge them. I saw one play where they were off the WR by almost 10 yards and the CB went into a back peddle and when he broke on the ball it was a easy 10 yard completion uncontested. The CB wasn't even in the screen he was playing so far off. They are playing scared on the back end.

 

[Anointed One]

It’s not totally Pete’s defense, Norton is calling the shots, 6 years now and every year his defenses have been sub par ... Fire his arse and bring back Quinn YESTERDAY!! I guarantee you this defense will improve.... Quinn knows this system WELL!! You stick with what’s not working and bye bye season ... I would lay money down right now that the Seahawks defense would go from 32 overall to about 20th overall under Quinn, and that’s all we would need, that alone would make Seattle a legit threat with that offense ... But changing nothing is insanity, we’re gonna piss any chance we have goodbye ....

Helk... Even Kris Richard is still out there... Bring him in... He's a great teacher... Our guys are not being taught very well by Norton and his staff...

 

[WizardHawk]

Pete is directly involved in the game planning. The concepts for the week are a collaboration, but he signs off on it.
Norton calls the plays and Pete generally stays out of it. I'm sure he still talks between series at the least.

Neither is without blame and neither is alone with blame.

I'd throw in RS as well since they have very very serious issues with the roster. No one is going to suddenly coach up some of the scrubs they have around that unit.

 

[Screamin12th]

Helk... Even Kris Richard is still out there... Bring him in... He's a great teacher... Our guys are not being taught very well by Norton and his staff...

No thank you! Bring him in to coach up the Safeties and CB yes please but make sure he is not coaching anyone else. His front end and linebacker play was bad when he was the DC and he had more talent to work with than Norton does. Like i have stated numerous times, go look at who is coaching these CB and Safeties and when he became the Secondary coach and you will see decline and his hiring goes hand in hand. The Secondary coach and the Defensive Pass game coordinator ( yes the Hawks have one ) need to be out on the streets. Replacing those guys with some talented coaches could very well help them on the backend and thats where we need the help.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

There's nothing wrong with bringing in Quinn for help. Something needs to happen to shake up this defense.

 

[Screamin12th]

Sounds like Norton is the one that got these guys meeting on Saturday and the turn around is directly linked to these accountability meetings. One of the things that was hurting this team was people not doing their job not following through with their assignments and not understanding the flow of what they are trying to do on defense. Now with the Accountability meetings they understand hey i got to do my job the "right" way.

This is some great coaching up of what was the worst defense in the league for 9 games.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Sounds like Norton is the one that got these guys meeting on Saturday and the turn around is directly linked to these accountability meetings. One of the things that was hurting this team was people not doing their job not following through with their assignments and not understanding the flow of what they are trying to do on defense. Now with the Accountability meetings they understand hey i got to do my job the "right" way.

This is some great coaching up of what was the worst defense in the league for 9 games.

That's great and all, but why did he wait so long to get it corrected? I think that is where most people had the issue with Norton. There were weeks and weeks of terrible defense seemingly without any change to the schemes or the plays. I'm glad he finally had a meeting to get the players to do better and be more accountable, but that should have happened in September after the 2nd or 3rd game in a row of terrible defense.

Even though the Hawks D has been better the past 4 weeks I still don't trust them to get the job done when they start playing better competition. I don't think a "one and done" scenario for the playoffs is much of a stretch with this team. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[flyerhawk]

That's great and all, but why did he wait so long to get it corrected? I think that is where most people had the issue with Norton. There were weeks and weeks of terrible defense seemingly without any change to the schemes or the plays. I'm glad he finally had a meeting to get the players to do better and be more accountable, but that should have happened in September after the 2nd or 3rd game in a row of terrible defense.

Even though the Hawks D has been better the past 4 weeks I still don't trust them to get the job done when they start playing better competition. I don't think a "one and done" scenario for the playoffs is much of a stretch with this team. I hope I'm wrong.

I don't know how much the accountability meetings really mattered. I think the improvement on D boils down to 2 things.

1. The defense got healthier and received reinforcements. Jamal Adams came back from injury. We acquired Carlos Dunlap. Rasheem Green came off of IR.
2. We played weaker competition.

We were never a historically bad defense. But we aren't a very good defense either. I think getting a clearly hobbled Dunbar off the field has helped. I think Jordyn Brooks has started to get his footing and play with a little more confidence. Bringing in Snacks will help keep our interior linemen a little fresher as well.

I think that this defense could wind up being competent. And if the Seahawks offense can play to its potential we could make a deep playoff run. But an early playoff exit is certainly a possibility.

 

[DHoey]

I think it's all about staying healthy at this point. We have a D that will get us by, as long as all the pieces are in place. Same thing with the offense for that matter. Offensive line needs more consistency. The right tackle spot needs to get healthy with someone, the revolving door isn't working over there. I wish Iupati could stay on the field too.