Kaep, RGIII, Russel, Cam, Vick

[imac_21]

ReaD option or not the fact Remains, a player getting hit more often, increases the chance of an injury. When any QB leaves the protection of the pocket he becomes more likely to get hit. Even if on average, said QB only does this an additional 5-10% of designed plays per game. Does this not expose him to additional hits that A typical pocket passer isn't exposed too? 44 plays, thats just over 700 opportunities in the span of one season. When it only takes one hit to cause an injury, are you really trying to suggest there isn't added risk?

And I am asking for someone to provide some form of evidence of this. People keep saying it, but no one has any evidence.

Every time Kaep keeps on the read option is he getting hit? No. As I said in an earlier post, he kept 7 times against GB in the playoffs and on 5 of them he was NEVER hit. Generally when the QB is hit when he keeps, it's by a DB.

Explain to me how seeing a DB coming and bracing for the hit is worse than getting smoked in the back from a blindside hit by Clay Matthews/Aldon Smith/DeMarcus Ware/Cameron Wake/JJ Watt/Terrell Suggs etc.

I don't see how running 44 option plays in a season amounts to 700 chances to get hit. San Francisco's option plays are a little misleading from last year because of the QB switch, but they ran 3.7 plays per game in the regular season with Kaep at QB. The way the play is drawn up, the QB only keeps the ball if he ISN'T going to get hit near the LoS. So most of the keep plays can be thrown out.

The question now becomes are teams willing to give up big plays to Gore/Lynch/Williams/Morris for the opportunity to MAYBE get a big hit on Kaepernick/Wilson/Newton/Griffin III?

Will teams be willing to lose games on the off chance they can injure a QB?

And as I said earlier, since there isn't enough material in the NFL to from any conclusion we have to look to college. How many option QBs in college have suffered significant injuries?

 

[imac_21]

Saw your edit and am responding

44 plays, thats Over 400 opportunities in the span of one decade.

That's a significant change from what you said earlier. The suggestion that each of those plays is an opportunity to hit the QB is quite misleading. I could easily make the same argument against throwing the ball.

The 49ers last season threw 567 passes and took 41 sacks. That's 608 opportunities for the QB to be hit.

New England threw 641 passes and took 27 sacks. 668 opportunities. 60 more opportunities per season for the QB to be hit. 600 in a decade.

New Orleans thew 671 passes and took 26 sacks. 698 = 90 more in a season and 900 in a decade.

Detroit threw 740 passes and took 29 sacks. 769 = 161 in a season (10 per game) and 1610 in a season.

Looking at other option teams:

Carolina threw 490 passes and took 36 sacks (526)
Seattle 405 + 33 = 438
Washington 442 + 33 = 475

I'm not including scrambles because those can't be differentiated from called QB runs and option keeps, but I'm willing to bet that Seattle nor Washington had the QB carry the ball 300 times to expose Wilson and Griffin as much as Detroit exposed Stafford.

And again, in option offenses the QB often gets to see the hit coming. In pocket situations the QB is often hit when he isn't expecting it, sometimes blindsided, sometimes hit high and sometimes hit low.

 

[LPinSLC]

You're asking for someone to do your research?

 

[LPinSLC]

Throwing the ball behind a line is the same as not?

 

[imac_21]

If we include option plays in the numbers from my post above (projecting Kaep's 3.7 options per game over a 16 game season for 59 total) they go to 667. Essentially equal to New England, still less than New Orleans and significantly less than Detroit.

Carolina ran 147 option plays for a total of 675
Seattle ran 55 (493)
Washington ran 129 (604)

 

[imac_21]

You're asking for someone to do your research?

No, I'm telling people that are saying option QBs are more susceptible to injury and being hit to do their own research.

If you tell me there's life on Jupiter and I say I haven't seen any proof it doesn't mean I'm asking someone to do my research.

 

[LPinSLC]

Trying (Unsuccessfully) to respond from my phone.

The research response was to your inquiry of option college QB's Injury rates.

 

[imac_21]

Throwing the ball behind a line is the same as not?

You're going to have to elaborate on your sentence fragments.

As a Lions fan, do you really feel safe with Stafford dropping back to pass and staying in the pocket?

How many times has he been injured as a pocket passer?

It's also important to note that teams running the option are teams with QBs familiar with running the option. These guys are comfortable moving around in space.

I can remember Kaepernick taking exactly one big hit last year as a runner, and that was one where he chose to take on a safety rather than slide. He easily could have slid to avoid that hit.

 

[imac_21]

Trying (Unsuccessfully) to respond from my phone.

The research response was to your inquiry of option college QB's Injury rates.

I know. People have come on here and stated a hypothesis that option QBs are more likely to get injured because of the running.

My request for evidence to support that is not asking you to do my research. It's me asking you to support your claim.

If you believe option QBs are more likely to get injured, the burden is on you to provide some sort of evidence.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Just an add on, Robert's injuries including concussion in Atl all occurred NOT as a result of the RO. I don't know the exact stats of RO plays for the skins, but I think it averaged about 10 plays per game. Regardless, it was a much smaller percentage than most people assume.

 

[Jtymer49er]

The play is easy enough to defend simply by playing fundamentally correct defense. My team will not resort to those tactics. But I have little doubt some will. And yes, if he is pretending to have the ball, he can be blown up, because a ball carrier can be blown up.

Why don't DEs just blow up traditional QBs when they play action fake and act like they are going to bootleg? Aren't these QBs pretending to have the ball? The fact is these offenses run read option and traditional plays out of formations like the pistol. DEs can't just assume it's a read option. What's the difference between being in the shotgun and running the read option with the QB giving the ball to the RB and being in the shotgun and running a traditional play action fake? From what I could tell last year the DEs didn't have enough time to get close enough to the QB to hit him most of the time without it being a deliberate late hit.

 

[TobyTyler]

So are college players unable to generate the force to injure QBs? Is the injury threshold somewhere in the fine line between Patrick Willis in 2006 vs Patrick Willis in 2007?

They are but not so much as a full grown man in the pros, just as a pop warner kid can't generate the force of a college kid.

 

[SonnyCID]

So you don't think the Pats will do it, but you think some teams will because John Madden said it's a strategy?

How many times will teams be willing to get burned to get a hit on the QB?

And no one can be blown up in the NFL anymore. There are so many rules about hitting now. And if you think officials won't be even more strict when it's a QB you're crazy. As a Patriots fan I'm sure you've heard plenty about the protection Brady gets from officials. With how much Kaep, Wilson and RG3 are being used to promote the league, they will get that as well.

There's also a very definitive limit on how much time you have to hit a guy pretending to have the ball. QBs tend to take only a few steps when they give the ball up. They don't run 30 yards downfield. All they're trying to do is make a defender take one false step.

If, as you said, the read option can be "easy enough to defend" with proper fundamentals why would teams risk getting burned, taking penalties and (for players) being fined?

I think it's also important to note that the read option is not a single play. The option plays the Niners run have multiple looks with OL, TE and FB all having different responsibilities from one play to the next.

Bingo

 

[Jikkle]

The notion that you can just hit the QB to stop the RO is silly.

In a way that's exactly what the offense wants you to do because the real and main intention of the RO is to take a player that normally has no usefulness on a running play in the QB and make him useful by occupying a defender and thus giving you more favorable blocking matchups up front. And if you get lucky the defender reads it wrong and the QB gets a big gain.

The second problem is guys like Cam and Kaepernick have builds that can take a beating so it's going to take quite a few hits over the course of the season to wear these guys down. Guys like RGIII and Vick have problems though as they just don't have the build to take a beating. Wilson seems like the type that would be inbetween Cam/Kap and RGIII/Vick as in I don't think he can take the beating of Cam/Kap can but I do think he can take more of a beating than RGIII/Vick.

Which leads me into the 3rd problem in that these guys aren't going to hand the ball off and just get blown up. They would try to avoid the hit and minimize the damage so they aren't going to exactly get decleated everytime they hand off the ball.

Also the funny thing is as people have said the RO is only a small part of these team's playbook. I expect the 9ers and Redskins to be the primary users of it still with it just being a part of the Hawks and Panthers offense but overall it's not like any of these teams are going to be mainly a read option offense.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

The two worst kinds of hits a QB can take both occur in the pocket. When they get a blind side hit, and when a defender falls into their knees. When they are running, they are in a position to brace for the impact of a hit, or slide to safety.

 

[BINGO]

I already miss Crabtree man.

 

[BINGO]

Patton has great hands, especially for a guy who supposedly has a broken finger

 

[BINGO]

Our big men up front are not playing to their 2013 level

 

[BINGO]

Phil Dawson looks more confident than our boy from last year