Just for the hell of it

[msgkings322]

What do you folks think about the postseason awards?

One quick opinion: only quibble is Verlander MVP, not because he didn't necessarily deserve it, but because after Pedro Martinez had maybe the best pitching season ever (seriously) in 1999 and got jobbed out of MVP, I figured pitchers literally could not win MVP

 

[filosofy29]

I was ok with pretty much all of them. The one I'd make a small stink about (but am not outraged by any means) Ryan Braun winning the NL MVP. I really like Braun and I hate Kemp and the Doghairs.....but Matt Kemp doesn't have Fielder, Weeks and Hart in his lineup.....and still proceeded to put up better numbers (almost across the board). Kemp also plays a more demanding position and played it well last year (at least I think so from the eye test.....too lazy and uninterested in UZR).

As for Pedro having (maybe) the best pitching season of all time. I can't say I'd agree, but I wouldn't strongly disagree either. 23-4 with a 2.07ERA in the height of the steroid era is damn impressive.

 

[Heathbar012]

I was ok with pretty much all of them. The I'd make a small stink about (but am not outraged by any means) Ryan Braun winning the NL MVP. I really like Braun and I hate Kemp and the Doghairs.....but Matt Kemp doesn't have Fielder, Weeks and Hart in his lineup.....and still proceeded to put up better numbers (almost across the board). Kemp also plays a more demanding position and played it well last year (at least I think so from the eye test.....too lazy and uninterested in UZR).

As for Pedro having (maybe) the best pitching season of all time. I can't say I'd agree, but I wouldn't strongly disagree either. 23-4 with a 2.07ERA in the height of the steroid era is damn impressive.

+1 on everything. Especially, the bolded. In '99, there were too many amazing performances by every-day players that helped contenders. That is the only main difference between now and then. If the BoSox had actually made it to the playoffs, AGon could have a little bit of a gripe. The bottom line is that Tiger team won their division, and without Verlander, they're probably a 3rd place team. Good enough for me.

Not to take anything away from Braun, and I might be bias because I have seen Kemp play much more often over the years, but Matt had the best all-around year of any player in baseball this season. The fact that it was on an awful team hurts him, but it also makes it significantly more impressive. You know I wouldn't go out of my way to say that two Dodgers ever deserve the biggest NL awards, any year, ever, but this year, they did.

 

[CameronFrye]

You have to remember that the American League is an inferior League. The last time a National League pitcher won the MVP award was 1968 when Bob Gibson took home the award after posting a 22-9, record, a 1.12 ERA and 268 Ks. Since that time, SEVEN American League pitchers have won the award, including three closers.

The AL has the designated hitter, which means that a pitcher will not have to come out of the game in the 6th or 7th if his team is trailing 2-1. Therefore, ALL AL pitching stats are inflated. There is no strategy nor thought required for an AL manager after the daily lineup card is handed in.

Pitchers do not deserve MVP awards for any reason. The fact that Miguel Cabrera could put up a .344/.448/.586 slash line with 30 bombs, 105 RBI, and 111 runs in 161 games and not win the award shows how totally flawed the AL has become.

Verlander is easily the best pitcher in the AL, but until Cabrera is able to win the Cy Young, Verlander should not be able to win the MVP. He appeared in 34 games. Even if the Tigers go 34-0 in those starts, he has no impact on 128 other games. How is that the most valuable player in a 162-game season?

 

[msgkings322]

I was ok with pretty much all of them. The one I'd make a small stink about (but am not outraged by any means) Ryan Braun winning the NL MVP. I really like Braun and I hate Kemp and the Doghairs.....but Matt Kemp doesn't have Fielder, Weeks and Hart in his lineup.....and still proceeded to put up better numbers (almost across the board). Kemp also plays a more demanding position and played it well last year (at least I think so from the eye test.....too lazy and uninterested in UZR).

As for Pedro having (maybe) the best pitching season of all time. I can't say I'd agree, but I wouldn't strongly disagree either. 23-4 with a 2.07ERA in the height of the steroid era is damn impressive.

That's the part that impresses me the most. And his 2000 numbers were actually even BETTER, except for wins. The differential between his 2.00-ish ERA and the league's 4.00-ish was wider than any other pitcher in history.

 

[msgkings322]

+1 on everything. Especially, the bolded. In '99, there were too many amazing performances by every-day players that helped contenders. That is the only main difference between now and then. If the BoSox had actually made it to the playoffs, AGon could have a little bit of a gripe. The bottom line is that Tiger team won their division, and without Verlander, they're probably a 3rd place team. Good enough for me.

Not to take anything away from Braun, and I might be bias because I have seen Kemp play much more often over the years, but Matt had the best all-around year of any player in baseball this season. The fact that it was on an awful team hurts him, but it also makes it significantly more impressive. You know I wouldn't go out of my way to say that two Dodgers ever deserve the biggest NL awards, any year, ever, but this year, they did.

Many of them steroid fueled including IMO the 1999 AL MVP winner Ivan Rodriguez.

Surprised Braun got the votes with his teammate getting so many too. Figured Kemp would win based on that too. Kemp's team doing bad was as you said both help (he had no help for his stats) and hindrance (he didn't carry them). But Andre Dawson got an MVP on the last place Cubs; I guess he was that much more worthy than #2 vote getter Ozzie Smith (/sarcasm, check the WARs on Smith, Jack Clark, Will Clark, basically everyone else...Dawson had by far the lowest WAR of ANY other MVP contender in 1987: 1987 Awards Voting - Baseball-Reference.com)

 

[CameronFrye]

Many of them steroid fueled including IMO the 1999 AL MVP winner Ivan Rodriguez.

Surprised Braun got the votes with his teammate getting so many too. Figured Kemp would win based on that too. Kemp's team doing bad was as you said both help (he had no help for his stats) and hindrance (he didn't carry them). But Andre Dawson got an MVP on the last place Cubs; I guess he was that much more worthy than #2 vote getter Ozzie Smith (/sarcasm, check the WARs on Smith, Jack Clark, Will Clark, basically everyone else...Dawson had by far the lowest WAR of ANY other MVP contender in 1987: 1987 Awards Voting - Baseball-Reference.com)

Braun was already locked up in a long-term deal. Fielder does not have a contract and spent a lot of time answering questions about potential free agency. If you don't think that had anything to do with the way writers voted, you're not paying attention (not you specifically msgkings, but the general you). I would venture a guess that every mid-western writer put Braun 1, Kemp 2 and Fielder 3. Hell, some might have even gone 1. Braun, 2. Fielder 3. Kemp. But I can almost guarantee you that no one put Fielder in front of Braun.

 

[SFGRTB]

Giants are only the second team ever (since the 1986 Mets) to have 4 pitchers receiving votes in the Cy Young race.

 

[msgkings322]

You have to remember that the American League is an inferior League. The last time a National League pitcher won the MVP award was 1968 when Bob Gibson took home the award after posting a 22-9, record, a 1.12 ERA and 268 Ks. Since that time, SEVEN American League pitchers have won the award, including three closers.

The AL has the designated hitter, which means that a pitcher will not have to come out of the game in the 6th or 7th if his team is trailing 2-1. Therefore, ALL AL pitching stats are inflated. There is no strategy nor thought required for an AL manager after the daily lineup card is handed in.

Pitchers do not deserve MVP awards for any reason. The fact that Miguel Cabrera could put up a .344/.448/.586 slash line with 30 bombs, 105 RBI, and 111 runs in 161 games and not win the award shows how totally flawed the AL has become.

Verlander is easily the best pitcher in the AL, but until Cabrera is able to win the Cy Young, Verlander should not be able to win the MVP. He appeared in 34 games. Even if the Tigers go 34-0 in those starts, he has no impact on 128 other games. How is that the most valuable player in a 162-game season?

Agreed, I'm in the no MVPs for pitchers camp. Pedro being exhibit #1.

But re the bolded above, inflation is the right word: wins, innings, CGs, and ERAs are all higher in the AL. Isn't the ERA about .50 higher in that league, for the same reason (DH)?

 

[iHATEdodgers]

Giants are only the second team ever (since the 1986 Mets) to have 4 pitchers receiving votes in the Cy Young race.

That is awesome. Next year they'll do the same and run a guy out there who used to receive votes in the Cy Young race! Does that count for something?

 

[SFGRTB]

That is awesome. Next year they'll do the same and run a guy out there who used to receive votes in the Cy Young race! Does that count for something?

Maybe they'll just run 1-2-3-4?

 

[tzill]

I was ok with pretty much all of them. The one I'd make a small stink about (but am not outraged by any means) Ryan Braun winning the NL MVP. I really like Braun and I hate Kemp and the Doghairs.....but Matt Kemp doesn't have Fielder, Weeks and Hart in his lineup.....and still proceeded to put up better numbers (almost across the board). Kemp also plays a more demanding position and played it well last year (at least I think so from the eye test.....too lazy and uninterested in UZR).

As for Pedro having (maybe) the best pitching season of all time. I can't say I'd agree, but I wouldn't strongly disagree either. 23-4 with a 2.07ERA in the height of the steroid era is damn impressive.

Fucking anti-Semite....

 

[filosofy29]

Fucking anti-Semite....

Braun is Jewish??? That changes everything.....now I can't stand him!!!



Happy Thanksgiving everybody. I hope you all enjoy it.

 

[msgkings322]

Braun is Jewish??? That changes everything.....now I can't stand him!!!



Happy Thanksgiving everybody. I hope you all enjoy it.

First Jewish MVP since 1977 (Rod Carew)

 

[tzill]

First Jewish MVP since 1977 (Rod Carew)

Yep. And they call him the Hebrew Hammer (all due respect to Hank Greenberg).

 

[Mays-Fan]

Yep. And they call him the Hebrew Hammer (all due respect to Hank Greenberg).

Eva's grandson, right?

 

[calsnowskier]

First Jewish MVP since 1977 (Rod Carew)

34 years of getting it right isn't bad. Can't expect complete perfection...

 

[tzill]

Just remember lads...many are called; few are chosen.

Fuckin goyim....

 

[msgkings322]

Just remember lads...many are called; few are chosen.

Fuckin goyim....

The only others were Koufax and Greenberg I think (JMVPs).

I don't think Chuck Klein was, name notwithstanding.