Joe Mauer - Did you know?

[romeo212000]

You can make that case about anyone... Look at nick swisher, what good is a Good OBP guy if he only hits .260... Looking at a stats flaws and picking on it is showing ignorance of the stat... BA is simply how often do you get a hit... that is all it is... but hitting is one of the most important things in baseball and therefore BA will always be an important statistic... The problem is not the statistic it is that people used to use it as a who is better statistic, and now we have statistics like WAR and RC that use mathematical formulas using other statistics, that can better judge the full picture than BA ever could... Only the statistical ignorant people claim that BA is not an important stat...

If a guy is getting on base at a .397 clip and hitting .260 ill take that over a guy with a .304 OBP hitting .277 all day every day.

 

[Driaz]

If a guy is getting on base at a .397 clip and hitting .260 ill take that over a guy with a .304 OBP hitting .277 all day every day.

While I tend to agree with your overall position of OBP being more important, your illustration isn't very accurate to refute the points others are making.....I'm sure the guys saying batting average shouldn't be discounted would take the guy with a .017 less batting average to gain .093 in OBP......

More accurate choice would be would you rather have a guy that hits .260/.320 or .280/.300?

I'd still likely go with the .260/.320 guy, but I can understand the guys that believe a hit's better then a walk and it becomes a tougher choice between the two batters......

 

[romeo212000]

While I tend to agree with your overall position of OBP being more important, your illustration isn't very accurate to refute the points others are making.....I'm sure the guys saying batting average shouldn't be discounted would take the guy with a .017 less batting average to gain .093 in OBP......

More accurate choice would be would you rather have a guy that hits .260/.320 or .280/.300?

I'd still likely go with the .260/.320 guy, but I can understand the guys that believe a hit's better then a walk and it becomes a tougher choice between the two batters......

I would take the higher OBP there depending on slugging, so I'd consider ops as well.

 

[The Cubs fan]

A time where OBP has a downside is the 8th hitter in an NL line up. Because they bat before the pitcher, they will get the IBB more often, if a FA was the regular 8th hitter on his prior team, his OBP was inflated due to being IBB with the pitcher behind him. AVG. may show the better picture than OBP in this situation.

 

[Nosferatu]

It's every hitters job to grind out at bats and get on base. Doing so will get your opportunities to see better pitches to hit and this, drive in runs.

I dont disagree but its not the 4th place hitters job to grind out an AB just to reach first base, it's his job to drive in runs, the same can't be said for your leadoff hitter, it's his job to get on base for that 4th place batter to drive him in.

 

[romeo212000]

I dont disagree but its not the 4th place hitters job to grind out an AB just to reach first base, it's his job to drive in runs, the same can't be said for your leadoff hitter, it's his job to get on base for that 4th place batter to drive him in.

Any hitter can drive runs in. Grinding out out at bats puts pressure on the pitcher and affects the human element of the game. RBI are merely a statistic of opportunity.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Any hitter can drive runs in. Grinding out out at bats puts pressure on the pitcher and affects the human element of the game. RBI are merely a statistic of opportunity.

Romeo, the problem here is that you are assuming other stats...we are only talking about BA and OBP not slugging or anything else... I stand with generally speaking taking 2 players with similar OBP, I would take the player with the higher BA... OBP is dependent on BA, but almost always a hit is better than a walk... You are also assuming that because a player walks more he automatically hits for more power...

 

[romeo212000]

Romeo, the problem here is that you are assuming other stats...we are only talking about BA and OBP not slugging or anything else... I stand with generally speaking taking 2 players with similar OBP, I would take the player with the higher BA... OBP is dependent on BA, but almost always a hit is better than a walk... You are also assuming that because a player walks more he automatically hits for more power...

I'm not assuming that at all. What I've actually said is given player x and y I'd probably take player x, especially if his ops is higher which I'd need to take a look at.

What I think we can agree on is that as with any other one single stat it's foolish to make evaluations on any single stat alone. They have to be put into context with other stats. That's honestly why I like ops better than either of those. Not that it's the end all be all stat, but it gives us more information to go on.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

i love waht OPS tries to do, but i do not like how it is evaluated... For one I think the formula for total Bases is terrible... it just overvalues power!!! Not to mention that OBP and Slugging are 2 totally different statistics and are intended for totally different things... I think BA + Slugging would be a better and more fitting statistic. I may be wrong but OBP seems to be more to be a prediction on how many runs scored, while slugging is a prediction on RBIs, so how can you combine a statistic for runs and a statistic for RBIs in such a generic way??


But I would definitely agree that one stat alone is almost useless, and to make a true analysis the more statistics and data the better...

 

[romeo212000]

i love waht OPS tries to do, but i do not like how it is evaluated... For one I think the formula for total Bases is terrible... it just overvalues power!!! Not to mention that OBP and Slugging are 2 totally different statistics and are intended for totally different things... I think BA + Slugging would be a better and more fitting statistic. I may be wrong but OBP seems to be more to be a prediction on how many runs scored, while slugging is a prediction on RBIs, so how can you combine a statistic for runs and a statistic for RBIs in such a generic way??


But I would definitely agree that one stat alone is almost useless, and to make a true analysis the more statistics and data the better...

We'll have to agree to disagree on the whole batting average vs OBP thing. In that equation ill take OBP all day every day. Ill point to Michael young last year as my example again.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

We'll have to agree to disagree on the whole batting average vs OBP thing. In that equation ill take OBP all day every day. Ill point to Michael young last year as my example again.

Romeo, i dont think you read my previous comment because i was not talking about which stat was better, i am talking about what the statistics are meant for... Slugging and OBP are too different for what they are intended for... BA is better than OBP for OPS because it is more similar to the intention of Slugging percentage than OBP is... BA is all about hitting, OBP is how often you are on base(and therefore a prediction to how often to score)

 

[romeo212000]

Romeo, i dont think you read my previous comment because i was not talking about which stat was better, i am talking about what the statistics are meant for... Slugging and OBP are too different for what they are intended for... BA is better than OBP for OPS because it is more similar to the intention of Slugging percentage than OBP is... BA is all about hitting, OBP is how often you are on base(and therefore a prediction to how often to score)

I did read it and I stand by what I said. I don't have time to explain it right now. Ill come back later.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I think it's simple. If two guys have similar batting averages. You take the guy with the better OBP seeing as there averages are close already. If they have similiar OBP....clearly you want the guy who hits better as it increases the odds of those hits doing damage.

 

[romeo212000]

I think it's simple. If two guys have similar batting averages. You take the guy with the better OBP seeing as there averages are close already. If they have similiar OBP....clearly you want the guy who hits better as it increases the odds of those hits doing damage.

Only if there is a pretty big disparity between their averages, if their batting averages are only separated by .20 points or less then I want to know what their slugging percentages look like.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Only if there is a pretty big disparity between their averages, if their batting averages are only separated by .20 points or less then I want to know what their slugging percentages look like.

Stop bringing in other stats... it is like asking if you would rather have a blonde or a brunette... and then answering i would need to see her body first... It is apples and oranges in a discussion about the 2 stats...

 

[redseat]

Too me hitters 1 and 2 OBP is more important than BA... Hitters 3 and 4 it's BA since they are the ones most likely driving in the top hitters in the line-up. But you can find flaws in either of these and you will be right no matter what your stance is. Granted you can hit .400 but yet only get 2 hrs and 10 rbi... so in that regard BA doesn't have the same swagger as OBP would.

 

[romeo212000]

Stop bringing in other stats... it is like asking if you would rather have a blonde or a brunette... and then answering i would need to see her body first... It is apples and oranges in a discussion about the 2 stats...

This whole conversation has been about what other stats are more valuable than BA. I mentioned ops from the beginning because I believe OBP and slugging tell a better story than batting average alone. This conversation was never limited to only BA and OBP.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

This whole conversation has been about what other stats are more valuable than BA. I mentioned ops from the beginning because I believe OBP and slugging tell a better story than batting average alone. This conversation was never limited to only BA and OBP.

Well OPS is 2 stats in one of course it is better than BA alone... But I still think BA+Slugging is better than OBP+slugging/OPS... I think OPS being with OBP shows ignorance to the real purpose of the stat...

 

[romeo212000]

Well OPS is 2 stats in one of course it is better than BA alone... But I still think BA+Slugging is better than OBP+slugging/OPS... I think OPS being with OBP shows ignorance to the real purpose of the stat...

I disagree with you on that.

 

[Nosferatu]

Too me hitters 1 and 2 OBP is more important than BA... Hitters 3 and 4 it's BA since they are the ones most likely driving in the top hitters in the line-up.

Exactly.