Jinxing Koji Uehara

[da55bums]

Well, for starters, let me just say that Craig Kimbrel is the best relief pitcher in baseball at this point.

Secondly, a one-inning closer should NEVER win the Cy Young Award.

Third, I don't see how Kimbrel's standing in the Cy Young voting has anything to do with Uehara's. They're in different leagues and are competing with different pitchers for the award. The AL doesn't have a pitcher pitching like Clayton Kershaw this year, or like Kershaw or Dickey last year.

Finally, I don't see how you could possibly say that Kimbrel has been better than Uehara this year. In 2012? Yes. But not this year.

Kimbrel, 2013: 59.2 IP, 430 ERA+, 0.838 WHIP, 13.1 K/9, 5.12 K/BB, .159 BAA, .470 OPSA, 36 SD/4 MD, 3 inherited runners, 33% IRS
Uehara, 2013: 66.2 IP, 386 ERA+, 0.570 WHIP, 12.6 K/9, 10.33 K/BB, .128 BAA, .398 OPSA, 33 SD/5 MD, 22 inherited runners, 32% IRS

1st agree

2nd agree

3rd - the point was made on the 2nd....NIETHER closer, or ANY closer, should not be considered for the Cy Young in the Majors AL or NL...

4th - thanks for leaving out stats that DO not support your point..

Kimbrel 46 saves...Uehara 19 saves...
Kimbrel 0.91 ERA...Uehara 1.08 era..
Kimbrel 49 SVO.....Uehara 22 SVO...Uehara worse save percentage.
Kimbrel 3 HR given up....Uehara 5 HR given up
more pressure situations goes to Kimbrel as well

To say Uehara is better than Kimbrel is really reaching dude..but hey, you must be right.

I guess throwing in Nathan, Holland, Melacon, Hochevar and even Louis Coleman in with Uehara is absurd also but guess it depends on what "stats" you want to chose from...even talking about Uehara with the words Cy Young behind it is pointless.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

1st agree

2nd agree

3rd - the point was made on the 2nd....NIETHER closer, or ANY closer, should not be considered for the Cy Young in the Majors AL or NL...

4th - thanks for leaving out stats that DO not support your point..

Kimbrel 46 saves...Uehara 19 saves...
Kimbrel 0.91 ERA...Uehara 1.08 era..
Kimbrel 49 SVO.....Uehara 22 SVO...Uehara worse save percentage.
Kimbrel 3 HR given up....Uehara 5 HR given up
more pressure situations goes to Kimbrel as well

To say Uehara is better than Kimbrel is really reaching dude..but hey, you must be right.

I guess throwing in Nathan, Holland, Melacon, Hochevar and even Louis Coleman in with Uehara is absurd also but guess it depends on what "stats" you want to chose from...even talking about Uehara with the words Cy Young behind it is pointless.

Saves? You're going to tell me which has been better based on an utterly meaningless statistic? How has Kimbrel faced more pressure situations? He's inherited 3 runners all year and has never pitched before the 9th inning. I didn't leave out saves because it doesn't support my point. I left out saves because it's one of the most meaningless statistics in the history of professional sports. The only thin less important than saves for judging relievers is wins.

ERA isn't a great stat to judge relievers by either, since it can be terribly skewed by one bad performance given their small sample size. WHIP and OPSA are far more telling stats.

And no, those other pitchers haven't been as good as Uehara, though some of them have been better than Kimbrel. Coleman's sample size is way too small to include him. He's used very sparingly and usually in low leverage situations.

I don't think Uehara should be anywhere near any Cy Young vote, but if anyone should, it's him. He's clearly been the best reliever in baseball this year, in my opinion, and the AL CYA field isn't that strong. I never said he's better than Kimbrel, but he's clearly having a better season than Kimbrel.

 

[da55bums]

Saves? You're going to tell me which has been better based on an utterly meaningless statistic? How has Kimbrel faced more pressure situations? He's inherited 3 runners all year and has never pitched before the 9th inning. I didn't leave out saves because it doesn't support my point. I left out saves because it's one of the most meaningless statistics in the history of professional sports. The only thin less important than saves for judging relievers is wins.

ERA isn't a great stat to judge relievers by either, since it can be terribly skewed by one bad performance given their small sample size. WHIP and OPSA are far more telling stats.

And no, those other pitchers haven't been as good as Uehara, though some of them have been better than Kimbrel. Coleman's sample size is way too small to include him. He's used very sparingly and usually in low leverage situations.

I don't think Uehara should be anywhere near any Cy Young vote, but if anyone should, it's him. He's clearly been the best reliever in baseball this year, in my opinion, and the AL CYA field isn't that strong. I never said he's better than Kimbrel, but he's clearly having a better season than Kimbrel.

So a guy, Coleman, you throw in "low leverage situations" then Uehara was used in low leverage situations before he became a closer....thus the 3 blown saves in 22 attempts...compared to Kimbrels 3 blown saves in 49 attempts....so if Uehara blows 3 more in his next 22 attempts to get to 44 attempts to Kimbrels 49...wouldn't it be safe to say that in those 3 blown attempts, his stats, any of them would be effected?

Like I said, your really reaching on this one...I like a lot of your points, actually many of them, but to say Uehara is clearly better than Kimbrel isn't your best one, by far...

.any GM would chose Kimbrel over Uehara..this season, with the game on the line and so would I. And arguably Holland too....since your point of skewed stats and Hollands worst outings mostly, heck all but 1 happing early in the year.

 

[steveringo]

His fine run ended last night at 37 batters in a row.

Fir more info and education, check out BP's article about his streak:

Baseball Prospectus | Pebble Hunting: Why Koji Uehara?

An excellent read, if you have some time.

If I'm reading the numbers below right, the odds of an average pitcher retiring these 37 batters in a row are like 1 in 2 million:

Average pitcher’s likelihood of getting Stewart and Scutaro and Belt and Sanchez and Ellis and Ethier and Uribe and Hairston and Markakis and Hardy and Wieters and Konerko and Garcia and Keppinger and Viciedo and Garcia and Ramirez and Konerko and Dirks and Pena and Iglesias and Rodriguez and Overbay and Ichiro and Jeter and Soriano and Cano and Myers and Zobrist and Longoria and Joyce and Johnson and Myers and Zobrist and Ryan and Wells and Granderson out: 0.00000166 percent.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

So a guy, Coleman, you throw in "low leverage situations" then Uehara was used in low leverage situations before he became a closer....thus the 3 blown saves in 22 attempts...compared to Kimbrels 3 blown saves in 49 attempts....so if Uehara blows 3 more in his next 22 attempts to get to 44 attempts to Kimbrels 49...wouldn't it be safe to say that in those 3 blown attempts, his stats, any of them would be effected?

Like I said, your really reaching on this one...I like a lot of your points, actually many of them, but to say Uehara is clearly better than Kimbrel isn't your best one, by far...

.any GM would chose Kimbrel over Uehara..this season, with the game on the line and so would I. And arguably Holland too....since your point of skewed stats and Hollands worst outings mostly, heck all but 1 happing early in the year.

You clearly have no idea how to evaluate relievers, nor do you seem to understand what a low leverage situation is. There are many, many high leverage situations for non-closers, and there are many low-leverage situations for closers.

Uehara is clearly having a better season than Kimbrel and Holland, not to take anything away from those guys. It's not up for debate to anyone who knows how to properly evaluate relievers.

 

[steveringo]

There are three relievers in the top 50 for pitching WAR.

31) Uehara 3.4
44) Kimbrel 2.9
49) Nathan 2.8

How much is this worth?


Or how about Component ERA?
2013 MLB Baseball Pitching Statistics and League Leaders - Major League Baseball - ESPN

 

[da55bums]

You clearly have no idea how to evaluate relievers, nor do you seem to understand what a low leverage situation is. There are many, many high leverage situations for non-closers, and there are many low-leverage situations for closers.

Uehara is clearly having a better season than Kimbrel and Holland, not to take anything away from those guys. It's not up for debate to anyone who knows how to properly evaluate relievers.

Yes, and since you are the one to properly evalute MLB relief pitchers you have decided to use your talents at Sporthoopla....thank you for your expert opinion. I think I will stick with actual experts but hey, you keep holding on to that dream....that job is coming.

by the way, Coleman is now at 30 innings, 1 run given up...not sure what "your professional standard is for relief innings to qualify is"

 

[da55bums]

There are three relievers in the top 50 for pitching WAR.

31) Uehara 3.4
44) Kimbrel 2.9
49) Nathan 2.8

How much is this worth?


Or how about Component ERA?
2013 MLB Baseball Pitching Statistics and League Leaders - Major League Baseball - ESPN

so Sergio Santos is the best??

 

[da55bums]

His fine run ended last night at 37 batters in a row.

Fir more info and education, check out BP's article about his streak:

Baseball Prospectus | Pebble Hunting: Why Koji Uehara?

An excellent read, if you have some time.

THIS article even STATES....Koji Uehara went from LOW LEVERAGE situations, in 1 year....lol....thank you for posting.

love the line, "Uehara to be AL's Craig Kimbrel"...even better..

 

[steveringo]

THIS article even STATES....Koji Uehara went from LOW LEVERAGE situations, in 1 year....lol....thank you for posting.

love the line, "Uehara to be AL's Craig Kimbrel"...even better..

I don't think Smarther said Uehara is better then Kimbrel. He only stated he is having a better season this year. Which is obviously true.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I don't think Smarther said Uehara is better then Kimbrel. He only stated he is having a better season this year. Which is obviously true.

I actually explicitly stated that Kimbrel is the better pitcher, but Uehara is having the better season. A couple times I think.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Yes, and since you are the one to properly evalute MLB relief pitchers you have decided to use your talents at Sporthoopla....thank you for your expert opinion. I think I will stick with actual experts but hey, you keep holding on to that dream....that job is coming.

by the way, Coleman is now at 30 innings, 1 run given up...not sure what "your professional standard is for relief innings to qualify is"

You mean the experts who think the save stat is meaningful? You go right ahead and do that. It's about in line with what I'd expect from you.

 

[da55bums]

You mean the experts who think the save stat is meaningful? You go right ahead and do that. It's about in line with what I'd expect from you.

now your confusing things again...Coleman doesn't have a save...and Kimbrel has a ton...starting to forget, what is better getting them or not getting them?

and with the stats you were using Sergio Santos is having the best season. Ue is having a great year, no doubt...either way...but Cy Young consideration NO, best relief pitcher in the majors NO, pitcher with the hottest streak going rigth now, yes.