It's worth its own thread: Brees' Neck

[octagondd]

We can take this back to the Hawk board if you want so we don't stir anything up here, but I can certainly see contact with the neck itself, let alone what the NFL or ref may deem the Neck area. His upper arm drastically shifts upon contact with the neck and his shoulder pad moves pretty good upon contact with his ear hole.

 

[Ties5o11]

Tough call but as others said, its one play in a long game. 9ers could have won the game by making other plays throughout the game.

On a side note, look at Brooks arm as he hits Brees. Looks beastly!

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

We can take this back to the Hawk board if you want so we don't stir anything up here, but I can certainly see contact with the neck itself, let alone what the NFL or ref may deem the Neck area. His upper arm drastically shifts upon contact with the neck and his shoulder pad moves pretty good upon contact with his ear hole.

Looking at the gif, the reason his neck stays in the same place while he's being hit, then whiplashes backwards, is because he was hit in the chest. If he was hit in the neck, it would have gone backwards along with the rest of his body. "Neck area" sure is a loose term, so the refs can justify it, but it was a silly call. I don't know how much further Brooks was supposed to duck down to make the tackle.

 

[smackdown380]

Looking at the gif, the reason his neck stays in the same place while he's being hit, then whiplashes backwards, is because he was hit in the chest. If he was hit in the neck, it would have gone backwards along with the rest of his body. "Neck area" sure is a loose term, so the refs can justify it, but it was a silly call. I don't know how much further Brooks was supposed to duck down to make the tackle.

thought it was more the speed of the game and Bree's body reacting to the hit. Overall not happy with another loss esp vs to the Saints. Puts us in a tie with Arizona.


Somewhat side topic but Kaep doesn't have a real mentor or someone he can talk to on the sidelines besides Harbs. I specifically mean his backups. I could be wrong , just an opinion.

 

[octagondd]

Looking at the gif, the reason his neck stays in the same place while he's being hit, then whiplashes backwards, is because he was hit in the chest. If he was hit in the neck, it would have gone backwards along with the rest of his body. "Neck area" sure is a loose term, so the refs can justify it, but it was a silly call. I don't know how much further Brooks was supposed to duck down to make the tackle.

I agree that most of his massive arm hits a bit below the neck and on the left shoulder pad, but this is a prime example of why it is called the neck area in the rules. They are trying to stop as much of this whiplash type action. Also, notice after his head moves forward from the whiplash, his helmet then contacts Brook's shoulderpads and his head immedietely starts down and to the left, so Brees got it bad in two ways. the whiplash to the neck and then an impact to the helmet which can cause concussion due to the sudden stop and redirection of the head, but the brain keeps moving and slams into the inner cranium.

 

[Robotech]

I agree that most of his massive arm hits a bit below the neck and on the left shoulder pad, but this is a prime example of why it is called the neck area in the rules. They are trying to stop as much of this whiplash type action. Also, notice after his head moves forward from the whiplash, his helmet then contacts Brook's shoulderpads and his head immedietely starts down and to the left, so Brees got it bad in two ways. the whiplash to the neck and then an impact to the helmet which can cause concussion due to the sudden stop and redirection of the head, but the brain keeps moving and slams into the inner cranium.

Maybe the only solution is two hands touching a QB who is dropping back to pass is as good as a tackle. I said it jokingly before, but maybe the NFL will eventually adopt such rule in the future based on what they are doing now. Maybe there can even be sensor on the QB's jersey that lets the officials know that he's been touched by two hands.

 

[octagondd]

Obviously that is pretty silly, but thighs to numbers is a pretty large target area, provided you do not use the top of your helmet or launch yourself at that target area. The offensive player is a moving target, so it is tough to really make the call sometimes, but I thought Brooks had a chance to get his arm a little lower here.

Last week I had hoped Michael Bennett would have gotten a sack and not a penalty, but you can't hit below the knees from any angle on a QB unless pushed into him. Just is what it is.

 

[Robotech]

Obviously that is pretty silly, but thighs to numbers is a pretty large target area, provided you do not use the top of your helmet or launch yourself at that target area. The offensive player is a moving target, so it is tough to really make the call sometimes, but I thought Brooks had a chance to get his arm a little lower here.

Last week I had hoped Michael Bennett would have gotten a sack and not a penalty, but you can't hit below the knees from any angle on a QB unless pushed into him. Just is what it is.

Is it really that silly, though? The intent of the current rules is to protect the QB from injury. A two-hand touch rule would give QB's the ultimate protection from injury.

 

[Robotech]

Either way, what we are seeing is not real football, so why not just make it two-hand touch for a QB who is dropping back to pass?

 

[MrChangoT97]

Enough of this Bull Sheit!?!?!?!?!

49ers lost the game because of the negative yards for the offense in the 4th qt. Whoever is to blame for this crap it all starts with Harbaugh. I'm not saying its his fault completely, but some of this crap needs to be thrown on his shoulders. The 49ers always look confused and unsure about the play calling when on offense and it seems like the play comes in late. I don't know much about play calling, but I have to believe Kaep is not reading the defense correctly and changing the play to the 2nd play. I'm tired of all this "Kill Kill" at the line of scrimmage.

The way the offense is playing and who we have on the field would the 49ers be the same, worse, better if A. Smith was our QB?

One things for sure we can kiss the NFC West title GOODBYE!?!?!?!

 

[octagondd]

Real football is always evolving as players, schemes, and equipment evolve. I understand the sentiment in the two hand touch thing, but I don't think the players or ex-players are asking for that. I think they just want to clean up the hits to lower injury potential as much as they can. It won't ever be perfect, but tough defenses do still exist. Look at the NFCW. The Hawks may get alot of penalties as they figure out what the refs will call, but in the end, WRs don't like playing us because they get handled at the line all the time and it disturbs the timing patterns of all these west coast offenses. So, there is a way to combat the apparent advantage of the offense. Make them succeed at running the ball, which many teams have given up on, or only show it to attempt to sell the play action; see Saints, Cowboys, Patriots, etc.

 

[Robotech]

Real football is always evolving as players, schemes, and equipment evolve. I understand the sentiment in the two hand touch thing, but I don't think the players or ex-players are asking for that. I think they just want to clean up the hits to lower injury potential as much as they can. It won't ever be perfect, but tough defenses do still exist. Look at the NFCW. The Hawks may get alot of penalties as they figure out what the refs will call, but in the end, WRs don't like playing us because they get handled at the line all the time and it disturbs the timing patterns of all these west coast offenses. So, there is a way to combat the apparent advantage of the offense. Make them succeed at running the ball, which many teams have given up on, or only show it to attempt to sell the play action; see Saints, Cowboys, Patriots, etc.

NFL is trending to more and more protection for the QB. It may seem silly now, but the way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if in the future there is a ban on all hits to the QB as long as he is in the pocket and looking to pass. Maybe the players will ask for this. The incentive for quarterbacks is obvious. QB's will suffer less injuries and blows to the head. There is also incentive for defensive players in that they will no longer be flagged and fined for trying to play football. They will know that as long as they two-hand touch the QB, it is a sack.

 

[smackdown380]

We can take this back to the Hawk board if you want so we don't stir anything up here, but I can certainly see contact with the neck itself, let alone what the NFL or ref may deem the Neck area. His upper arm drastically shifts upon contact with the neck and his shoulder pad moves pretty good upon contact with his ear hole.

There are a lot of ways to look at this, but just curious, looking at the replay again,Brooks makes contact with Bree's shoulders, at that moment the gummy thing happens but more importantly Bree's falls down and his neck makes the contact, not necessarily the other way. I may be biased,actually I am as I hate the call but refs aren't making the determination here of who made contact. It was to protect Brees and at full speed it's hard to tell. Does that make any sense or idiot just biased rambling on my part? Just looking for other thoughts on this.

 

[octagondd]

There are a lot of ways to look at this, but just curious, looking at the replay again,Brooks makes contact with Bree's shoulders, at that moment the gummy thing happens but more importantly Bree's falls down and his neck makes the contact, not necessarily the other way. I may be biased,actually I am as I hate the call but refs aren't making the determination here of who made contact. It was to protect Brees and at full speed it's hard to tell. Does that make any sense or idiot just biased rambling on my part? Just looking for other thoughts on this.

I don't think any of you are an idiot or uber biased. It is a judgement call by the refs, and the league left it that way for a reason. I am not sure why because players need to know specifically what they can do and not do. My guess is the rule does get more specific next season and it will say something about being below the pad level of the opponent and not driving up past the V neck of the jersey or something along those lines.

Brooks height or Brees' lack of height is really the issue here. His pads were higher and his arm wrapped around the top of Brees' other shoulder pad. I would consider that a Neck Area hit. This is concerning for Hawk fans as well since RW is short like Brees and has already taken a few of these hits. Yes, the team benefits from the penalty, but the hit on the player is the main issue and could put him out for the season or career at any time.

 

[LifeLong9ersFan]

I don't think any of you are an idiot or uber biased. It is a judgement call by the refs, and the league left it that way for a reason. I am not sure why because players need to know specifically what they can do and not do. My guess is the rule does get more specific next season and it will say something about being below the pad level of the opponent and not driving up past the V neck of the jersey or something along those lines.

Brooks height or Brees' lack of height is really the issue here. His pads were higher and his arm wrapped around the top of Brees' other shoulder pad. I would consider that a Neck Area hit. This is concerning for Hawk fans as well since RW is short like Brees and has already taken a few of these hits. Yes, the team benefits from the penalty, but the hit on the player is the main issue and could put him out for the season or career at any time.

While I agree I think the bigger issue is that the nfl believes they can make 250-300 pound men running at 4.4-4.8 speeds stop on a dime while another 250-300 pound man is trying to stop him. I understand it's a passing league and no one wants to see injuries but it's one thing to stop blatant attempts to hurt someone and an entirely other to throw flags for the illusion of protecting someone. It has the same feel as the TSA or a door lock giving the illusion of security, if someone really wants in they are most likely doing it and the only thing you're doing is keeping out or slowing down innocent people.

I mean honestly are we seeing a drop in QB injuries from years past as a result? Cutler, Vick, Rodgers, on and on. No one is being protected, the game is just being hurt and the refs are deciding games they shouldn't like a boxing judge submitting a score card to a fight that ended in a knockout.

 

[Screamin12th]

Head and Neck area and that hit was in the neck area. No if and's or buts about it. The Strike zone in baseball is armpits to knees and that's the strike zone on a QB in the NFL. This Gif just shows WHY this was a penalty and what they are trying to remove from the game is that VIOLENT head snap. Those are the hits that cause concussions ( head violently snapping ) and that's something they want to remove.

Sure this is not the football we all grew up playing and watching but seeing as i want to continue to watch football till i'm in the dirt they needed to change it or we could have lost it all together. Had that hit happened to Kaepernick and no flag came you all would be screaming bloody murder. You can not have it both ways people. Hitting hard and hitting high are two different things and players just need to adjust their strike zone. I will admit that this gives the Brees's and Wilson's of the NFL an advantage because they are so short. Trying to lower your hit on them and you might as well be on your belly :P.

 

[Screamin12th]

Head and Neck area and that hit was in the neck area. No if and's or buts about it. The Strike zone in baseball is armpits to knees and that's the strike zone on a QB in the NFL. This Gif just shows WHY this was a penalty and what they are trying to remove from the game is that VIOLENT head snap. Those are the hits that cause concussions ( head violently snapping ) and that's something they want to remove.

Sure this is not the football we all grew up playing and watching but seeing as i want to continue to watch football till i'm in the dirt they needed to change it or we could have lost it all together. Had that hit happened to Kaepernick and no flag came you all would be screaming bloody murder. You can not have it both ways people. Hitting hard and hitting high are two different things and players just need to adjust their strike zone. I will admit that this gives the Brees's and Wilson's of the NFL an advantage because they are so short. Trying to lower your hit on them and you might as well be on your belly :P.

 

[Screamin12th]

Sorry about the double post the board froze up and was loading for 5 minutes and when it finished there was two of them AND because it was over the 5 minute mark i couldn't remove it.

 

[BINGO]

Saints beat 49ers 23-20, Hartley FG on last play | Chat49ers.com

 

[Crimsoncrew]

What sucks is that I bet that stiffens up real good and limits him somewhat next week during practice and against the Hawks.