Its not a "losing" situation for the Lions

[TBBishop]

IMO......

Spiller = Definite no. draft much better option
Wilfork = definite no. draft/FA (both) better options
Hudson = no. center only, draft/FA (both) better options
Oakland C (not even going to try and spell it = no. Baffled here, no idea why a team that actually MUST spend big would let him go. There is a problem here. If they sign Hudson immediately I guess I can understand, otherwise fear keeps me away.
Ngata = no. Too old for me at such a high cost
Hardy = yes. I would at least get an idea of his cost here. I think teams are going to go way low due to his off field. Contract structure huge here. Offer 3yr, $28m with that third year voidable by him. $6m signing. $6m, $6m salary, with $10m salary in that voidable year. Your caps are $8, $8, $12m. IF he is the stud we hope he will void that third year. We would carry only a $2m dead hit if we lost him. If he sucks you cheaply cut him after only two seasons.
Fairley = yes. Very similar contract as suggested above only 3yr, $26m. For both guys with questions surrounding them they can be free agents again in a short time frame for even bigger pay days.

I think we'll have all 5 DEs back from last season. No reason IMO to stick your neck out for Hardy. And I don't believe that Fairley has earned a $9 mil payday.

 

[TBBishop]

Agree with you guyz on Wiz. Not sure why a team flush with cash refuses to sign one of he best centers in the league. Maybe Oakland is really just that stupid. I do not think we are in the market for a starting center. Looking for a Guard is my bet for O-line.

Have you guys considered that Hudson wants the fuck out of Oakland?

 

[tpaulus_2]

Have you guys considered that Hudson wants the fuck out of Oakland?

What's he doin' in Oakland? No wonder KC isn't re-signing him, the traitor!

 

[TBBishop]

What's he doin' in Oakland? No wonder KC isn't re-signing him, the traitor!

Yep, that's called typing faster than you're thinking. Wisnewski (sp)

 

[tpaulus_2]

It happens. Most of us aren't assholes about it. I am.

 

[TBBishop]

It happens. Most of us aren't assholes about it. I am.

Oh, don't be modest. You're an asshole about more than this

 

[tpaulus_2]

Me?! Nooo...

 

[tpaulus_2]

 

[LPinSLC]

Weed

 

[jdwills126]

Money is on Suh continuing to be a great player.....

But TB I would never rule out the chance he becomes a Haynesworth type or to a degree.

Suh had two great seasons his rookie season and last season. The others were varying degrees of good but not great. You don't get the highest defensive player contract in the history of the NFL to be a good player. If he doesn't live up to that deal right away and the media and fans get on him I can see him having issues. He did it here in Detroit and throw in any off field issues or conduct issues and it would or could be a perfect storm.

That has always been my feeling on why he would not go to a media driven city because the spot light...guess I was wrong.

 

[TBBishop]

Money is on Suh continuing to be a great player.....

But TB I would never rule out the chance he becomes a Haynesworth type or to a degree.

Suh had two great seasons his rookie season and last season. The others were varying degrees of good but not great. You don't get the highest defensive player contract in the history of the NFL to be a good player. If he doesn't live up to that deal right away and the media and fans get on him I can see him having issues. He did it here in Detroit and throw in any off field issues or conduct issues and it would or could be a perfect storm.

That has always been my feeling on why he would not go to a media driven city because the spot light...guess I was wrong.

Suh hasn't gone anywhere yet. And the supposed front runners Miami and Oakland are not media driven cities. No one gave a shit about Miami until LeBron took his talents to South Beach and now he's gone and no one gives a shit again. And Oakland is Oakland. And Suh's numbers in his second and third year may not be as good as his 1st and 4th but he was a disruptive force, a terror on opposing backfields every season. The effort was there even if the numbers were not. Most of all, Haynesworth I would expect didn't have a huge rookie contract. Suh had a #2 overall pick contract which was far more than any DT, especially a rookie DT, should have been making. He's always had the money and still gave the effort. So, yea, of course I can't sit here and say 100% that Suh won't get paid and stop trying but I don't think he's that guy.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Oh it's most definitely a losing situation for the lions if suh signs elsewhere. Spiller and fairley? What a joke, none of the garbage the lions could sign will be anywhere remotely as important as suh. Team will be taking a huge step back when he signs elsewhere.

 

[gvsulaker82]

If Suh is automatically going to net a team 5-8 wins in a season all by himself then all 32 teams better jump into that sweepstakes. I guess I need more of an explanation to understand how that works. The Lions havent really done squat with him so how does that change now? Why hasn't Watt been able to lead Houston to the promise land by himself?

They haven't? They had the number two defense in the nfl last year and you better believe suh was the main reason why. Who the lions haven't did squat with is all of the shiny toys you always advocate they waste picks on....

 

[jdwills126]

Suh hasn't gone anywhere yet. And the supposed front runners Miami and Oakland are not media driven cities. No one gave a shit about Miami until LeBron took his talents to South Beach and now he's gone and no one gives a shit again. And Oakland is Oakland. And Suh's numbers in his second and third year may not be as good as his 1st and 4th but he was a disruptive force, a terror on opposing backfields every season. The effort was there even if the numbers were not. Most of all, Haynesworth I would expect didn't have a huge rookie contract. Suh had a #2 overall pick contract which was far more than any DT, especially a rookie DT, should have been making. He's always had the money and still gave the effort. So, yea, of course I can't sit here and say 100% that Suh won't get paid and stop trying but I don't think he's that guy.

South Beach has some mystique to it for some reason. I don't get it but you can't deny the image factor is their for South Beach, plus the no state sales tax and Suh is about the money.

Oakland is my thought on where he lands.....1. It's a short plane ride to his home in Seattle area and 2. I think they will be playing in LA in 2 years.

Detroit / Mayhew, Lewand, and Junior I think have come to grips with the fact he is leaving. They have resigned Prater at a decent rate, 3 mil per year. Plus they have told Tulloch he will be back with a cap hit of 3.2 million. If they believed they had a shot at Suh they would have cut Tulloch and went cheaper than 3 mil per season on a kicker IMO.

Signing a DT to the highest paid defensive player contract in the NFL is a gamble. Not just my belief but NFL history. You see Defensive Ends and OLB get top cash. Rarely a DT. And for QB money a team will expect seasons like last year every year.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

I think we'll have all 5 DEs back from last season. No reason IMO to stick your neck out for Hardy. And I don't believe that Fairley has earned a $9 mil payday.

Jones is in the last year of his contract, Johnson could still go elsewhere with the low tender we put on him, Taylor saw a very reduced role last year and Wester is a project. If the $ is right I'd look into Hardy still.

Don't get caught up in the average of any contract because the player almost never gets paid that. The deal I would have in front of Fairley would be one where his third year would be in the $12m range. That should keep him motivated since to earn that big third year amount he needs to play well in year two and he would be a FA after that third year and have a chance for a big pay day if he again plays well.

 

[Old Lion]

They haven't? They had the number two defense in the nfl last year and you better believe suh was the main reason why. Who the lions haven't did squat with is all of the shiny toys you always advocate they waste picks on....

Suh was on that defense 3 years before that too and they were not even in the top half of the league. Suh is not the reason the defense was as good as it was. Austin was. Not saying they can be number 2 again without Suh and without adding more players either. Especially with how much more difficult the schedule will be. They add some decent players in the middle and will be top 10 still.

Offense improvement will decide whether we win or lose next year.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

South Beach has some mystique to it for some reason. I don't get it but you can't deny the image factor is their for South Beach, plus the no state sales tax and Suh is about the money.

Oakland is my thought on where he lands.....

JD,
1. ) I'm pretty sure you meant no state income tax here (not sales tax, is 7%)

2.) Suh landing in Oak, I can see it happening but going back to "Suh is about the $$$", he'd have to pay over 12.83% in state income tax for any type of bonus money, plus the game check money (Oak hm. gms. 8 plus the yearly road game at SD (1). Nine game checks (which is only base salary) at the 12.83%. That's still a lot of money, say on a 60M in guaranteed $$$$. if 40M of that amount is earned in Cali then that's nearly 5.2M wasted away paying state income tax.

That 5.2M invested at an avg. return rate of 8% p/yr. over 30 yrs., (pretty much doubling the invest every 8 yrs.) becomes nearly 83M....from a 5+M investment.

Should Suh end up at Mia. or Jax or TB or Tenn or Hous he would have zero dollars in state income tax on all bonus money and all game checks for home and road in those above cities (states).

Money wise, the savings are HUGE by choosing Mia or Jax.

 

[RobBase]

Suh was on that defense 3 years before that too and they were not even in the top half of the league. Suh is not the reason the defense was as good as it was. Austin was. Not saying they can be number 2 again without Suh and without adding more players either. Especially with how much more difficult the schedule will be. They add some decent players in the middle and will be top 10 still.

Offense improvement will decide whether we win or lose next year.

Too bad this isn't true. Austin's 2013 defense ranked 12th in yards per game, points per game and total points.

He comes to Detroit w Suh and finishes 2014 w a top 3 defense.

Suh has always been super effective.

The sweet homer-optimism in this thread is hurting my teeth.

No good FAs are coming here. Forget it.

 

[gandydancer]

Suh was on that defense 3 years before that too and they were not even in the top half of the league. Suh is not the reason the defense was as good as it was. Austin was. Not saying they can be number 2 again without Suh and without adding more players either. Especially with how much more difficult the schedule will be. They add some decent players in the middle and will be top 10 still.

Offense improvement will decide whether we win or lose next year.

Correct
Suh had nothing to do with Slay developing. Was he the only reason Levy had back to good years? Can players develop on their own or did help all that? Suh was on one and only one top ten defense while inDetroit. i think some of you are putting to much stock in what Suh's role was and what Austin does for players to succeed.

Those rankings LionsTop1 had going. Suh really was only ten on there. Losing one ten and adding two guys in the 7/9 range on defense I do not see automatic 6-10 season.

 

[gandydancer]

Too bad this isn't true. Austin's 2013 defense ranked 12th in yards per game, points per game and total points.

He comes to Detroit w Suh and finishes 2014 w a top 3 defense.

Suh has always been super effective.

The sweet homer-optimism in this thread is hurting my teeth.

No good FAs are coming here. Forget it.

You do realize Austin was not the DC there, right? So it was not his scheme being run. I don't have blind homerism. Hell I am pessimistic usually. I am just not judging because of one player until FA period and the draft.