It's crazy how Utley was on the fast track to the Hall of Fame five years ago

[Omar 382]

And now he will just be remembered as a great player whose style of play kept him off the field. Even if he isn't a Hall of Famer, he still has put up a hell of a career in Philly.
.287/.373/.498 217 home runs, 808 RBI's, 129 SB, and a 55.2 WAR (and counting).
He would basically have to put up 2007 or 2008 numbers for another 3 more years and then 4 more that are more like his 2013 numbers. Extremely unlikely, but regardless, he is a great player.

Also, I think Utley's power is sometimes overshadowed because he played on teams with Thome, Burrell, Werth, Howard, and Ibanez. His .498 slugging percentage is only 2 points behind the all time home run leader among second baseman, Jeff Kent, who slugged .500

 

[Omar 382]

Also, not that I think WAR is an end all, be all stat, but it's interesting to note that Utley's (unfinished) WAR total is higher than:
Jim Rice
Albert Belle
David Ortiz
Darryl Strawberry
Juan Gonzalez
Bill Skowron

 

[navamind]

I think he should be in anyway. 55.2 WAR sounds borderline, but he put that up in just 5671 PA. And keep in mind the guys you listed had a lot more plate appearances. His 05-09 run was among the best 5 year stretches at his position. He was still a very good player over the last four years, but he missed a lot of time (15.9 in 1858 PA).

 

[jvett77]

This season was Utley's best since 2009 in games played and production. The Phillies need him to stay healthy and have another .284 year in '14.

 

[Cedrique]

I think he should be in anyway. 55.2 WAR sounds borderline, but he put that up in just 5671 PA. And keep in mind the guys you listed had a lot more plate appearances. His 05-09 run was among the best 5 year stretches at his position. He was still a very good player over the last four years, but he missed a lot of time (15.9 in 1858 PA).

That's true but none of the guys he listed are in the hall of fame except for Rice. I do think the hof voters place too much emphasis on milestones that are just based on longevity. For example there is no way Tony Perez should be in the Hall of Fame and not Dick Allen. (except for the fact that Perez may have been better liked by the media and he kept hacking for 8 years after he was good and racked up a bunch more hits and RBIs).

I agree with the point about Utley getting in if he plays a few more years and contributes like he has for the last 4 years. I could also see Ortiz getting in, not because he is still playing, but because he is still producing at a high level.

 

[Cobiemonster]

I think considering how there aren't many good 2B's, Chase has a good shot at getting in at some point - he was the best at 2B for a few years there and if he plays well for another 2-3 years at least, he can get in - his power numbers are tremendous for a 2B

 

[Cedrique]

I think considering how there aren't many good 2B's, Chase has a good shot at getting in at some point - he was the best at 2B for a few years there and if he plays well for another 2-3 years at least, he can get in - his power numbers are tremendous for a 2B

Yeah, if you compare his stats to Bill Mazeroski it's not even close

 

[Omar 382]

Actually there are a number of Hall of Famers who had smaller WAR's than Utley for their career:
Joe McGinnity
Hank Greenberg
Willie Stargell
Whitey Ford
George Sisler
Bill Dickey
Three Finger Brown
Eppa Rixey
Willie Keeler
Tony Perez
Gabby Hartnett
Joe Tinker
Kirby Pucket (although he is kind of exempt from appearing on this list)
Orlando Cepeda
Chuck Klein
Sam Rice
Not to mention about 20 other players that he is higher than that are borderline Hall of Fame. Personally, I think he will get hurt and may only put up on more season that's similar to '13, but if he can stay healthy and have 5 more years similar to his '13 production (with maybe one closer to his '06-'08 season) then he would be a lock for the Hall.

 

[Robotech]

His slicked back hair alone should put him in the Hall of Fame.

 

[Cedrique]

Actually there are a number of Hall of Famers who had smaller WAR's than Utley for their career:
Joe McGinnity
Hank Greenberg
Willie Stargell
Whitey Ford
George Sisler
Bill Dickey
Three Finger Brown
Eppa Rixey
Willie Keeler
Tony Perez
Gabby Hartnett
Joe Tinker
Kirby Pucket (although he is kind of exempt from appearing on this list)
Orlando Cepeda
Chuck Klein
Sam Rice
Not to mention about 20 other players that he is higher than that are borderline Hall of Fame. Personally, I think he will get hurt and may only put up on more season that's similar to '13, but if he can stay healthy and have 5 more years similar to his '13 production (with maybe one closer to his '06-'08 season) then he would be a lock for the Hall.

It seems weird that you would consider exempting Puckett from appearing on the list. Would Utley have a better chance if he had to have one of his legs amputated and retired next year?

 

[Omar 382]

It seems weird that you would consider exempting Puckett from appearing on the list. Would Utley have a better chance if he had to have one of his legs amputated and retired next year?

The list of players I had played full, mostly healthy careers, and still finished with a lower WAR than Utley, who still has years ahead of him. Puckett had a lower WAR than Utley, but it's not really fair to say that the stats he accumulated in his 11 year career were all that he could have accomplished had a freak occurrence not happened to him. Puckett still had a couple of great/good years ahead of him if he had not gone blind in one of his eyes.

For the record, I don't even think Puckett should be in the Hall of Fame. Poor defense, poor base running, rarely walked, and was just a good hitter for a 10 year period in an era where offense dominated the game.

 

[Cedrique]

The list of players I had played full, mostly healthy careers, and still finished with a lower WAR than Utley, who still has years ahead of him. Puckett had a lower WAR than Utley, but it's not really fair to say that the stats he accumulated in his 11 year career were all that he could have accomplished had a freak occurrence not happened to him. Puckett still had a couple of great/good years ahead of him if he had not gone blind in one of his eyes.

For the record, I don't even think Puckett should be in the Hall of Fame. Poor defense, poor base running, rarely walked, and was just a good hitter for a 10 year period in an era where offense dominated the game.

Yeah, I'm just saying its weird how we view injuries. Utley has injuries too, but they are just not enough to keep him completely out of baseball like Puckett. Utley might have been even better the last couple years when he did play if he was healthy. I guess it just shows why there will always be lots of arguments and discussions about the hall of fame. One thing that I think really helped Puckett is that he was a leader on a Twins team that won the World Series(twice I think), played his whole career there, was the face of the franchise, etc. That is even more of an accomplishment on a small market team like Minnesota as well. Plus he really didn't have any "down years". He was an all star almost every year, in the hunt for the MVP many times, etc.

By the way I was going to make some smart ass comment about Jackie Robinson having a lower WAR than Utley because I was sure that he would since he only played 9 or 10 years. Then I looked it up and it turned out he had a WAR of like 60. I had no idea he was that good.

 

[navamind]

Yeah, I'm just saying its weird how we view injuries. Utley has injuries too, but they are just not enough to keep him completely out of baseball like Puckett. Utley might have been even better the last couple years when he did play if he was healthy. I guess it just shows why there will always be lots of arguments and discussions about the hall of fame. One thing that I think really helped Puckett is that he was a leader on a Twins team that won the World Series(twice I think), played his whole career there, was the face of the franchise, etc. That is even more of an accomplishment on a small market team like Minnesota as well. Plus he really didn't have any "down years". He was an all star almost every year, in the hunt for the MVP many times, etc.

By the way I was going to make some smart ass comment about Jackie Robinson having a lower WAR than Utley because I was sure that he would since he only played 9 or 10 years. Then I looked it up and it turned out he had a WAR of like 60. I had no idea he was that good.

And Robinson didn't reach the majors until he was 28.

 

[Omar 382]

Yeah, I'm just saying its weird how we view injuries. Utley has injuries too, but they are just not enough to keep him completely out of baseball like Puckett. Utley might have been even better the last couple years when he did play if he was healthy. I guess it just shows why there will always be lots of arguments and discussions about the hall of fame. One thing that I think really helped Puckett is that he was a leader on a Twins team that won the World Series(twice I think), played his whole career there, was the face of the franchise, etc. That is even more of an accomplishment on a small market team like Minnesota as well. Plus he really didn't have any "down years". He was an all star almost every year, in the hunt for the MVP many times, etc.

By the way I was going to make some smart ass comment about Jackie Robinson having a lower WAR than Utley because I was sure that he would since he only played 9 or 10 years. Then I looked it up and it turned out he had a WAR of like 60. I had no idea he was that good.

Yep, Puckett and Robinson were great players. Fuck them both.

 

[BigDDude]

On the subject of Utley, does anyone here want to buy his house?

Chase Utley Unloading Philly Penthouse For Reasonable $4.3 Million

What? Nobody has $ 4.3 mil lying around?

 

[Omar 382]

On the subject of Utley, does anyone here want to buy his house?

Chase Utley Unloading Philly Penthouse For Reasonable $4.3 Million

What? Nobody has $ 4.3 mil lying around?

Considering I make minnimum wage, I'd be happy find $4.30 in my wallet

 

[jvett77]

In looking at WAR stats for the Phillies, I was surprised that Howard's was only 20 vs. Utley's 55. Each has a WRC+ of about 140. Each has about 850 extra-base hits while Howard has 100 more homers and 150 more rbi. The most glaring stat however, is their K%. Ryan Ks 30% of the time with 1400 career Ks; Utley Ks at half that rate, about 14% or 838 Ks. Their OPS and avg are comparable so the K% is telling. Schmidt had a 17 year WAR of 106 and like Utley, K'd only 15% of the time.

 

[Cedrique]

In looking at WAR stats for the Phillies, I was surprised that Howard's was only 20 vs. Utley's 55. Each has a WRC+ of about 140. Each has about 850 extra-base hits while Howard has 100 more homers and 150 more rbi. The most glaring stat however, is their K%. Ryan Ks 30% of the time with 1400 career Ks; Utley Ks at half that rate, about 14% or 838 Ks. Their OPS and avg are comparable so the K% is telling. Schmidt had a 17 year WAR of 106 and like Utley, K'd only 15% of the time.

I think the big difference is Utley is a better defender and even if they were both average on defense if Utley puts up stats even close to Howard's they are way more valuable because anyone you replace him with at second would be far inferior offensively. (see Wilson Valdez)

 

[navamind]

I think the big difference is Utley is a better defender and even if they were both average on defense if Utley puts up stats even close to Howard's they are way more valuable because anyone you replace him with at second would be far inferior offensively. (see Wilson Valdez)

The difference in baserunning is pretty big too.

 

[Omar 382]

The difference in baserunning is pretty big too.

And positional adjustment.