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Hall of Fame is a Complete Joke

blstoker

Bill Bergen for HoF!
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Now, I'm not lamenting who got in. I do believe that Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and Frank Thomas were all very deserving Hall of Famers. It's the people who didn't get in that is my issue. There were players who should have gotten in that did not. My List of snubs:

Barry Bonds - I am so sick and tired of the fake moral outrage by people who made careers writing about the rise of baseball in the steroid era, then extended careers by throwing players under the bus and have attempted to stay relevant by leading charges to completely destroy those who made them money. For those who like to throw out the cheating argument, there are already epic cheater like Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb and Willie Mays already in the Hall of Fame. Even if you want to throw out Bonds' numbers from when he is "suspected" to have started using steroids, and only use his pre steroid numbers - he's a Hall of Famer.

Roger Clemens - See Barry Bonds. Not only is he 9th all time in wins (1 behinds Maddux) but he is the only eligible player to achieve 300 wins to not be in the Hall of Fame (Randy Johnson won't be eligible til next year).

Craig Biggio - I know that there are those who don't like Biggio as a HoFer because they see him as a stat compiler, but in many ways that's what they hall is actually about. In the past, 3000 hits were looked at like 500 home runs and were an automatic entry to the hall, but that sentiment has changed. He's also 5th in doubles all-time (668) and in 20 years he averaged over 90 runs scored a season (I've never understood why people always thought RBI were superior to runs scored).

Jack Morris - Once you let Bert Blyleven into the hall (which I was glad to see) you just kind've had to add Morris, but that just isn't gonna happen (this was Morris' last year of eligibility). Morris won 20 games 3 times, and also led the league in wins the strike shortened 1981 season. Was one of the few players to play in 3 years that were shortened due to strikes (1981,1994 & 1995).

Lee Smith - I know there are those who feel that Mariano Rivera should be the first closer (as we know it) to be voted into the hall, but Smith is more than deserving to be inducted, even though his saves record has since been surpased. If voters do wait to let Rivera in before anyone else, then Smith's eligibility will be up and the veterans committee will have to let him in through the back door.

Edgar Martinez - He changed how people looked at DH, and it was actually for that fact that Frank Thomas got in (though as a DH, Edgar is statistically superior to Thomas in nearly every way). Due to injuries, he's a little underwhelming statistically, but you'd be hard pressed to find a more complete hitter in any era.

Sammy Sosa -Again, see Barry Bonds. Only player in MLB history to hit 50 or more home runs in 4 straight seasons (49 in 2002 would have been fifth if he could've gotten one more). Bonds not withstanding, Sosa was the most dominate HR hitter in MLB history from 1995-2004 (479 HRs in 10 years).
 

navamind

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Now, I'm not lamenting who got in. I do believe that Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and Frank Thomas were all very deserving Hall of Famers. It's the people who didn't get in that is my issue. There were players who should have gotten in that did not. My List of snubs:

Barry Bonds - I am so sick and tired of the fake moral outrage by people who made careers writing about the rise of baseball in the steroid era, then extended careers by throwing players under the bus and have attempted to stay relevant by leading charges to completely destroy those who made them money. For those who like to throw out the cheating argument, there are already epic cheater like Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb and Willie Mays already in the Hall of Fame. Even if you want to throw out Bonds' numbers from when he is "suspected" to have started using steroids, and only use his pre steroid numbers - he's a Hall of Famer.

Roger Clemens - See Barry Bonds. Not only is he 9th all time in wins (1 behinds Maddux) but he is the only eligible player to achieve 300 wins to not be in the Hall of Fame (Randy Johnson won't be eligible til next year).

Craig Biggio - I know that there are those who don't like Biggio as a HoFer because they see him as a stat compiler, but in many ways that's what they hall is actually about. In the past, 3000 hits were looked at like 500 home runs and were an automatic entry to the hall, but that sentiment has changed. He's also 5th in doubles all-time (668) and in 20 years he averaged over 90 runs scored a season (I've never understood why people always thought RBI were superior to runs scored).

Jack Morris - Once you let Bert Blyleven into the hall (which I was glad to see) you just kind've had to add Morris, but that just isn't gonna happen (this was Morris' last year of eligibility). Morris won 20 games 3 times, and also led the league in wins the strike shortened 1981 season. Was one of the few players to play in 3 years that were shortened due to strikes (1981,1994 & 1995).

Lee Smith - I know there are those who feel that Mariano Rivera should be the first closer (as we know it) to be voted into the hall, but Smith is more than deserving to be inducted, even though his saves record has since been surpased. If voters do wait to let Rivera in before anyone else, then Smith's eligibility will be up and the veterans committee will have to let him in through the back door.

Edgar Martinez - He changed how people looked at DH, and it was actually for that fact that Frank Thomas got in (though as a DH, Edgar is statistically superior to Thomas in nearly every way). Due to injuries, he's a little underwhelming statistically, but you'd be hard pressed to find a more complete hitter in any era.

Sammy Sosa -Again, see Barry Bonds. Only player in MLB history to hit 50 or more home runs in 4 straight seasons (49 in 2002 would have been fifth if he could've gotten one more). Bonds not withstanding, Sosa was the most dominate HR hitter in MLB history from 1995-2004 (479 HRs in 10 years).

No you don't. Blyleven was so much superior to Morris, it's not even funny. Blyleven had big advantages over Morris in ERA, ERA+, WHIP, BB/9, K/9, K/BB, more than twice as much WAR, and has over 1000 more IP than him. Morris's best WAR was 5.8 in 1979. Blyleven had a WAR of 5.8 or higher in seven seasons (including 9.9 in '73).

Lee Smith has an ERA+ about 5 points higher than Schilling. Keep in mind one's a relief pitcher and one's a starting pitcher. Smith getting more votes than Schilling is absolutely comical.
 
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blstoker

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No you don't. Blyleven was so much superior to Morris, it's not even funny. Blyleven had big advantages over Morris in ERA, ERA+, WHIP, BB/9, K/9, K/BB, more than twice as much WAR, and has over 1000 more IP than him. Morris's best WAR was 5.8 in 1979. Blyleven had a WAR of 5.8 or higher in seven seasons (including 9.9 in '73).

Lee Smith has an ERA+ about 5 points higher than Schilling. Keep in mind one's a relief pitcher and one's a starting pitcher. Smith getting more votes than Schilling is absolutely comical.

The Bert Blyleven comparison is that he was kept out of the Hall a lot longer than he should have been. There is no reason that Blyleven should have had to wait until his second to last year of eligibilty to get in. Morris, IMO, should have made it this year, which was his last year of eligibilty.

As for Smith, there is no comparison between him and Schilling. Schilling in no way should be even concidered for the Hall, his career wasn't good enough. He wasn't even a top 5 starter except for about 4 years (2001-2004), where Smith was the best closer for much of his career. Smith most likely won't make it with the bias against closer, which will be a shame.
 

StanMarsh51

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Lee Smith - I know there are those who feel that Mariano Rivera should be the first closer (as we know it) to be voted into the hall, but Smith is more than deserving to be inducted, even though his saves record has since been surpased. If voters do wait to let Rivera in before anyone else, then Smith's eligibility will be up and the veterans committee will have to let him in through the back door.


Absolutely not....he was an inconsistent reliever who had a quite a number of unimpressive years. We all know you can have a mediocre/poor year and still rack up saves, so using saves as the determining factor for him being a HOFer isn't the way to go.

A large reason he was able to have the saves record was that he was fortunate enough to pitch right around the time the role of the closer was reduced from a 2-3 inning appearance to 1-2 innings, which meant more save opportunities (you get a 1 inning save, you can pitch the next day to get another 1 inning save....before, if you had a 3 inning save, you probably weren't pitching the next day).

Smith has a 3.03 ERA, 1.26 WHIP, 2.57 K/BB and 82% save percentage....are those HOF worthy for a reliever with 1,289 innings?
 
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StanMarsh51

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The Bert Blyleven comparison is that he was kept out of the Hall a lot longer than he should have been. There is no reason that Blyleven should have had to wait until his second to last year of eligibilty to get in. Morris, IMO, should have made it this year, which was his last year of eligibilty.

As for Smith, there is no comparison between him and Schilling. Schilling in no way should be even concidered for the Hall, his career wasn't good enough. He wasn't even a top 5 starter except for about 4 years (2001-2004), where Smith was the best closer for much of his career. Smith most likely won't make it with the bias against closer, which will be a shame.

How many seasons was Jack Morris a top 5 starter? I don't think it was more than Schilling.

For starters, looking at ranks:
Schilling finished top ten in his league in ERA 9x, and top five 4x
Morris finished top ten in ERA 5x, and top five 2x

Schilling has more top 5 finishes in WHIP than Morris has top 10 finishes

Schilling has more top 5 finishes in K/9 than Morris has top 10 finishes

Schilling led the league in K/BB more times than Morris finished top 10
 
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broncosmitty

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Bonds not getting in is definitely a joke. He just took the cream/clear for too long. Made a lot of people angry when he broke another cheaters record. Im sure Schilling will get in, shouldn't, but he will.
 

RobToxin

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The BWAA is filled with the biggest hypocrites in all of sports. The BWAA is causing people to lose respect for the process and by virtue the HOF itself.
 

wazzu31

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The Bert Blyleven comparison is that he was kept out of the Hall a lot longer than he should have been. There is no reason that Blyleven should have had to wait until his second to last year of eligibilty to get in. Morris, IMO, should have made it this year, which was his last year of eligibilty.

As for Smith, there is no comparison between him and Schilling. Schilling in no way should be even concidered for the Hall, his career wasn't good enough. He wasn't even a top 5 starter except for about 4 years (2001-2004), where Smith was the best closer for much of his career. Smith most likely won't make it with the bias against closer, which will be a shame.

Hate to say this, but isn't this part of the reason Edgar isn't going to get into the HOF?

Do completely agree that the entire HOF process is a joke, Bonds should've been a first ballot and unanimous.
 

StanMarsh51

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The Bert Blyleven comparison is that he was kept out of the Hall a lot longer than he should have been. There is no reason that Blyleven should have had to wait until his second to last year of eligibilty to get in. Morris, IMO, should have made it this year, which was his last year of eligibilty.

As for Smith, there is no comparison between him and Schilling. Schilling in no way should be even concidered for the Hall, his career wasn't good enough. He wasn't even a top 5 starter except for about 4 years (2001-2004), where Smith was the best closer for much of his career. Smith most likely won't make it with the bias against closer, which will be a shame.


No he wasn't

-Early to mid '80s, Dan Quisenberry and Goose Gossage were easily better (say, 1980/1981-1985)
-Mid to late '80s, John Franco was better (say, 1986-1989), and Eck was better from '87 to around '93
-Early to mid '90s, Rick Augilera was better (say, 1990-1995), and Wetteland from 1992
-The final few years of his career there were a number of better closers (those above, plus Hoffman)

And there could be more players in addition to the ones above (I just looked for a few names that came to mind and compared their numbers during portions of Smith's career).

So what stretch of his career was he ever really the best closer?
 
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