Is Todd Gurley a System Player?

[Vitamike]

IF you're not arguing what I am arguing, you're arguing with straw, period.

Okay, so you really don't know the Strawman Fallacy. You can always look it up to understand what you are actually saying.

No big.

And I've already explained many times on here (no, not on this thread) that that is not a literal phrase. #RBsHaveVeryLowPositionValue isn't as fun.

First time coming across your position of RB value, so not stated on this thread was paramount to understanding your argument on my part.

Truly evaluating an RB's value can not be quantified by simple stats like you presented here in Gurley vs CJ. Maybe this is something else stated not here, but in another thread.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Okay, so you really don't know the Strawman Fallacy. You can always look it up to understand what you are actually saying.

No big.



First time coming across your position of RB value, so not stated on this thread was paramount to understanding your argument on my part.

Truly evaluating an RB's value can not be quantified by simple stats like you presented here in Gurley vs CJ. Maybe this is something else stated not here, but in another thread.

Not to repeat myself but I can see both sides but again a guy like Gurley/Bell able to bring their high usage rates game after game is their value. Sure for one game or one drive they can be replaced but the Steelers certainly have stalled some as Conner is out and or slowing.

Being somewhat biased of course but CJ Anderson couldn't replace Nick Chubb seamlessly in that scheme.



And absolutely a very small handful can do what McCaffrey or Barkley do.

 

[Vitamike]

Not to repeat myself but I can see both sides but again a guy like Gurley/Bell able to bring their high usage rates game after game is their value. Sure for one game or one drive they can be replaced but the Steelers certainly have stalled some as Conner is out and or slowing.

Being somewhat biased of course but CJ Anderson couldn't replace Nick Chubb seamlessly in that scheme.



And absolutely a very small handful can do what McCaffrey or Barkley do.

If you watched the Rams/Cardinals, you would have heard the broadcasters asking why CJ couldn't get more playing time at his previous stops, and why he hadn't played a down in weeks. Well, he did run all over that 3-11 Zona defense, obviously lacking in depth and talent, and playing Rookies across both sides of the ball was a factor in CJ's success today. But he sucked in Pass Pro vs a timid pass rush, and added no value at all to the passing game. I'll guess these are the reasons he hasn't got the playing time or attention as a FA on the market from other teams out there. Mostly these are the points I made in my first post on this thread, but over looked because I guess it didn't fit the agenda by the OP.

Look, this is a team sport moreso than a lot of other sports. It has three phases to it's game and Coaches galore. Sure scheme and strategy come into play, but so does talent. Neither can succeed consistently without the other aspects of the team functioning at a high level. There is just too much competition league wide and the NFL's parity agenda keeps it that way so it cannot play out any other way.

Bottom line, you are on to something here Stake, usage rates are fundamental in assigning value, and two things dictate this fact. 1. the 53 man roster, and 2. Cap, those two restraints elevate usage rate value, I'll add another and that is versatility, also by virtue of those same to restraints.

 

[SteelersPride]

i wonder how many people arguing here, actually took time to look at the Next gen stats. Im guessing not many. Just figured they'd argue anyways

 

[Stakesarehigh]

i wonder how many people arguing here, actually took time to look at the Next gen stats. Im guessing not many. Just figured they'd argue anyways

I'm not disputing anything in that article. I said what I believe is Gurley's chief value is his ability to "be that gear" with the consistency he can provide it. As well as pass blocking.


Article from last year but kind of my point

https://www.google.com/amp/s/packer...mong-nfls-best-pass-blocking-rbs-in-2017/amp/


How a running back pass blocks is becoming/has become more and more important especially for those that run the same set over and over like the Rams do.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I'm a big advanced metrics guy for basketball and baseball but I've been slow on football. I probably should look more often

Thought this was an interesting analysis

RUNNING BACKS 2018 | Football Outsiders

Edit

And then this one has "open field yards" by total running backs

In the top five include Carolina, Cleveland, new York, Denver

Not surprising

2018 OFFENSIVE LINES | Football Outsiders

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Okay, so you really don't know the Strawman Fallacy. You can always look it up to understand what you are actually saying.

No big.



First time coming across your position of RB value, so not stated on this thread was paramount to understanding your argument on my part.

Truly evaluating an RB's value can not be quantified by simple stats like you presented here in Gurley vs CJ. Maybe this is something else stated not here, but in another thread.

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man."

Quite frankly, I am left to think you do not know what a strawman fallacy is, or are simply trying to troll ironically at this point.

Truly evaluating an RB's value can not be quantified by simple stats like you presented here in Gurley vs CJ. Maybe this is something else stated not here, but in another thread

Erm, ok, clearly. As mentioned before, this is an ongoing spiel, not a manifesto. I can grab the the chart on the expected mistackles if you want. But this is fairly disingenuous to pretend this was a manifesto, rather than a cynical dig at RBs being important, or rather indispensable, in the current NFL. Episodic, at best.

You keep wondering why I keep pointing out this is a strawman, yet you are confused apparently on my stance if you think this was supposed to be a standalone thread. Starting you're just replying in this thread because it has Gurley in it.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I'm a big advanced metrics guy for basketball and baseball but I've been slow on football. I probably should look more often

Thought this was an interesting analysis

RUNNING BACKS 2018 | Football Outsiders

Edit

And then this one has "open field yards" by total running backs

In the top five include Carolina, Cleveland, new York, Denver

Not surprising

2018 OFFENSIVE LINES | Football Outsiders

We're finally breaking ground it looks like in recent years as far as analytics in football go. Some of it I am pretty sure is intrinsic to the NFL like RB position value, but I like this.

 

[Shanemansj13]

He's no Nick Chubb

 

[Stakesarehigh]

We're finally breaking ground it looks like in recent years as far as analytics in football go. Some of it I am pretty sure is intrinsic to the NFL like RB position value, but I like this.

I think it's easier to evaluate basketball and baseball players as they can be evaluated in a vacuum of sorts individually. Takes a little more effort with the NFL imo

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I think it's easier to evaluate basketball and baseball players as they can be evaluated in a vacuum of sorts individually. Takes a little more effort with the NFL imo

Yeah, that has always been a major headache. Baseball in particular is a lot closer to 1:1 conflict between pitcher and batter (closer that is) than a 11:11+ free for all football can seem from 20 thousand feet.

 

[Vitamike]

Quite frankly, I am left to think you do not know what a strawman fallacy is, or are simply trying to troll ironically at this point.

Not looking to get into a pissing contest moose, but I never argued a distorted version of your argument. Actually since your argument wasn't even presented in this thread, how could I have argued even an exaggerated or misrepresented a version of your argument? Sure I had a tongue in cheek comment, but that was fairly obvious by the emoji used.

Erm, ok, clearly. As mentioned before, this is an ongoing spiel, not a manifesto. I can grab the the chart on the expected mistackles if you want. But this is fairly disingenuous to pretend this was a manifesto, rather than a cynical dig at RBs being important, or rather indispensable, in the current NFL. Episodic, at best.

You make a lot of assumptions, nothing was disingenuous on my end. Never seen this type of topic on the hoop before my response yesterday. Once the veil was uncovered, I have discussed the actual topic, but then again you went to bed. You do tend to stray far from the subject and attack from many angles, ironically something you might call a straw man.

You keep wondering why I keep pointing out this is a strawman, yet you are confused apparently on my stance if you think this was supposed to be a standalone thread. Starting you're just replying in this thread because it has Gurley in it.

You're getting close Moose!!! You should think, I was just replying to the actual thread topic!

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Never seen this type of topic on the hoop before my response yesterday.

That's transparently obvious when you try to advance the arguments you do in this thread, like this hasn't been a spiel of mine for upwards of 3+ years now to at least some degree. Very late to the party here- hence my irritation.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

This twitter thread covers the #RBsDontMatter argument in a more eloquent manner for people who do not get butthurt over the joke:

B) and more specifically, Gurley as he is actually a fairly easy target for #RBsDontMatter

 

[PDay8810]

That's transparently obvious when you try to advance the arguments you do in this thread, like this hasn't been a spiel of mine for upwards of 3+ years now to at least some degree. Very late to the party here- hence my irritation.

Party? try your agenda and it seems to be gaining speed towards just being a phoenix stupid hour, but I'm sure thats just me....LOL

special players exist at all positions and have since the beginning of the game. Can't just plug and play a Emmitt or Sanders. Same with Elliott and Gurley but you go ahead and pound your agenda. It seems to be about all your worth these days here at the hoop.

ONWARD!!

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Party? try your agenda and it seems to be gaining speed towards just being a phoenix stupid hour, but I'm sure thats just me....LOL

special players exist at all positions and have since the beginning of the game. Can't just plug and play a Emmitt or Sanders. Same with Elliott and Gurley but you go ahead and pound your agenda. It seems to be about all your worth these days here at the hoop.

ONWARD!!

PDay nipping at my ankles is a time honored past-time, but you're still wrong:

 

[PDay8810]

nope dude....I'm not wrong, many great players played the RB position and could not be replaced by any guy standing in front of a 7-11.

You should start another thread and pound this point some more

 

[Fountain City Blues]

nope dude....I'm not wrong, many great players played the RB position and could not be replaced by any guy standing in front of a 7-11.

You should start another thread and pound this point some more

Scintillating response, as expected.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

"Cowboys stink with good defense and Zeke, are good with Amari Cooper, but nothing to see here; Zeke drives the show"

 

[Vitamike]

That's transparently obvious when you try to advance the arguments you do in this thread, like this hasn't been a spiel of mine for upwards of 3+ years now to at least some degree. Very late to the party here- hence my irritation.

Consider adding Episode Numerations, either in the OP or Thread title. It would I/D a series topic from the get, and it's never too late to begin!

No need to get irritated from the Johnny come lately's that will evidently & unwittingly stumble across your spiel.