Is Todd Gurley a System Player?

[Moab]

Obvious...trolling is obvious

 

[Vitamike]

unless we have a vested interest in ignoring what happens on the field.

Well at least you're not denying this little tidbit, kudos to you for admitting this.

I guess there is really no reason to carry on this little debate after your admitted ignorance to what is actually occurring on the field.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Well at least you're not denying this little tidbit, kudos to you for admitting this.

I guess there is really no reason to carry on this little debate after your admitted ignorance to what is actually occurring on the field.

Ah, the spin it back at the sender because there isn't an actual response. That's a tried and true tactic on the playground. Also goes by the classic "I know what you are, but what am I."

 

[Fountain City Blues]

So many silly people flailing to defend RB's being impact players with clear and discriminating boundaries.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

So many silly people flailing to defend RB's being impact players with clear and discriminating boundaries.

I mean goddamn, y'all got clowned again by Damien Williams, CJ Anderson, and Barkley's general "impotence." How many L's y'all gonna take before you accept the truth?

 

[Vitamike]

Ah, the spin it back at the sender because there isn't an actual response. That's a tried and true tactic on the playground. Also goes by the classic "I know what you are, but what am I."

Not into the sillyness your attempting here moose. But obviously the point to my last post was missed if you didn't understand the 'actual response'.

Let me be a lot dryer and clear so you get the actual point.

Sure, a fan base may have a slanted perspective, especially in a troll bait thread as this, but so does the troll.

Amirite?

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Not into the sillyness your attempting here moose. But obviously the point to my last post was missed if you didn't understand the 'actual response'.

Let me be a lot dryer and clear so you get the actual point.

Sure, a fan base may have a slanted perspective, especially in a troll bait thread as this, but so does the troll.

Amirite?

Ah, there we go. Bias does not invalidate true statements. It's is in fact possible for MSNBC or Fox News to report facts despite a heavy handed bias. A Saints fan may be predisposed to thinking their team is the best in the NFL, that doesn't mean his bias invalidates such an opinion, as it is rooted in facts; albeit it's possible he may use facts to justify a conjecture first, instead of the facts guiding the opinion. Is it possible for such an opinion to be wrong? Certainly. He would be well within his or her right to believe such a thing, however.

 

[Vitamike]

Ah, there we go. Bias does not invalidate true statements. It's is in fact possible for MSNBC or Fox News to report facts despite a heavy handed bias. A Saints fan may be predisposed to thinking their team is the best in the NFL, that doesn't mean his bias invalidates such an opinion, as it is rooted in facts; albeit it's possible he may use facts to justify a conjecture first, instead of the facts guiding the opinion. Is it possible for such an opinion to be wrong? Certainly. He would be well within his or her right to believe such a thing, however.

Maybe you missed the word 'may' in my last post?

Thanks for just restating the obvious and arguing your last sentence in Post 60 I've already quoted.

You seem to converse quite well with yourself, as noted by several self quoted posts in this thread, but now that you've begun to argue you're own points, I'm not sure if you need any of us anymore.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Maybe you missed the word 'may' in my last post?

Thanks for just restating the obvious and arguing your last sentence in Post 60 I've already quoted.

You seem to converse quite well with yourself, as noted by several self quoted posts in this thread, but now that you've begun to argue you're own points, I'm not sure if you need any of us anymore.

This only works if you offer no argument whatsoever- and essentially typed word salad. If this is really your angle- your implicature is horribly pointless.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

1st off to be considered a system RB on teams like the steelers Rams etc.. is to be able to be a 3 down back.
Now once you are a 3 down back I could see someone saying they could plug in another 3 down back into which ever system. but if you dont have a 3 down back, your system changes. Steelers seem to be able to plug next guy up scenario, but the Cowboys. If Zeke is not in, their run game suffers. For instance our back up had negative yards today.

Was going to use Zeke as example. I somewhat see OP's point but Barkley/Mcaffrey types are not system guys. And you still got to find a good "system" RB.

Look at the difference in the Pats running game with Michel.

 

[Vitamike]

This only works if you offer no argument whatsoever- and essentially typed word salad. If this is really your angle- your implicature is horribly pointless.

Dude you're just all over the board, stay focused. You started out asking if TG is a system RB, right? You used what I perceive as a slanted stat. You implied that was likely a bias, I pointed to your likely bias, which neither can either be disputed or refuted to any certainty. So WTF is 'your' point/argument to support your OP indictment? Certainly we agree your stat can be bias by either of us. So what else you got?

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Dude you're just all over the board, stay focused. You started out asking if TG is a system RB, right? You used what I perceive as a slanted stat. You implied that was likely a bias, I pointed to your likely bias, which neither can either be disputed or refuted to any certainty. So WTF is 'your' point/argument to support your OP indictment? Certainly we agree your stat can be bias by either of us. So what else you got?

Yeah, you can stop arguing strawmans and dead-end arguments anytime now, troll.

Stay focused on the actual thread here. Cut the BS and you'll realize this is not a troll thread whatsoever.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Really the Bell/Gurleys value comes in withstanding the beating and grind of high usage rates and being that gear that helps the offense go. They aren't the big gear like a Roethlisberger or even Antonio Brown but if the gear breaks down you have to have one just as good.

Conner was but look how quick he broke down. He was slowing before injury.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Was going to use Zeke as example. I somewhat see OP's point but Barkley/Mcaffrey types are not system guys. And you still got to find a good "system" RB.

Look at the difference in the Pats running game with Michel.

We're really talking about the team that is the mascot for my argument? The team that started a WR a RB? James White, Vereen, Burkhead? Dion Lewis? Seems like the Patriots are the antithesis of the RB's have unique and discriminating boundaries in terms of production in the NFL. Not saying there aren't real differences in skill, that would be a ridiculous argument that only serves as shock value (which yes I do employ) but I highly question the idea that you can't replicate lot of James Whites, Vereens, Dion Lewises, etc both in the rushing and passing game; or at least to the point that the differences in skill are so small the sample size would need to be very big to be noticeable. For example, if the difference in skill is .3 YPC [how much skill represents .3 YPC is up to debate], how many carries would it take to have an appreciative impact on the outcome of a game? Now extend this to 16 games.

Eric Eager had an amusing take after Kareem Hunt was cut; to paraphrase: Losing Kareem Hunt would be worth about .25 wins over the course of a 16 game season. Yes, it matters somewhat in the literal sense, but it's highly dubious how much value even highly productive RB's have compared to their peers. This is a complicated problem.

There's a lot I am not spelling out here as this is a long-going spiel making fun of a terrible Kareem Hunt/RB takes over the past 4 or so years, but even today the rushing boxscore looks like this in NE:



Michel wins on being the primary focal point, or at least, the plurality of the yardage I guess?

Maybe this spiel makes me a RB hater, an OL truther, or whatever. I find it hard to believe RB's have so much value as to be held in as high esteem as they are. Sometimes, the answer is as simple as 8>4, as 3>2 in the NBA; or at least so long as your passer is good enough to avoid pratfalls.

*Ironically, Brady had a lower YPA than the YPC on the ground... which isn't a great sign, but I am not gonna be guy who bashes the Pats more than they already are being bashed atm.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Name how many times James White had more than ten carries.

Being able to grind out yards when everyone in the building knows you're running is different than a change of pace.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Name how many times James White had more than ten carries.

Being able to grind out yards when everyone in the building knows you're running is different than a change of pace.

Don't need to- you can just divide the role into several similar characters such as Dion Lewis or Rex Burkhead. That's moreorless the point of my argument- it's so replaceable, it seemingly doesn't even matter in most situations.

With that being said- in terms of skill, Michel is way better than all of those guys, imo. It's just very hard to stand out as an RB.

 

[Vitamike]

Yeah, you can stop arguing strawmans and dead-end arguments anytime now, troll.

Stay focused on the actual thread here. Cut the BS and you'll realize this is not a troll thread whatsoever.

Is there an echo in here?

Damn Moose, that 2X now that you've done that. You're just struggling here. So, I'll bite, if this is not a troll thread, than what's you're real angle?

#RunningBacksDontMatter???

By the way, I'm not sure you really understand the Strawman Fallacy.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Is there an echo in here?

Damn Moose, that 2X now that you've done that. You're just struggling here. So, I'll bite, if this is not a troll thread, than what's you're real angle?

#RunningBacksDontMatter???

By the way, I'm not sure you really understand the Strawman Fallacy.

IF you're not arguing what I am arguing, you're arguing with straw, period. We both know that...


And I've already explained many times on here (no, not on this thread) that that is not a literal phrase. #RBsHaveVeryLowPositionValue isn't as fun.

If you want to make a meaningful retort to the actual thread and argument, go ahead. If you want me to make things explicit so you can better respond, then that's fine as well. I am being very vague (I very cynically did not expect a serious response) and it's arcane to follow otherwise.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Alright, I am heading off to bed. I can respond to questions/arguments when I wake up.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Don't need to- you can just divide the role into several similar characters such as Dion Lewis or Rex Burkhead. That's moreorless the point of my argument- it's so replaceable, it seemingly doesn't even matter in most situations.

With that being said- in terms of skill, Michel is way better than all of those guys, imo. It's just very hard to stand out as an RB.

I guess to better restate the reason Zeke is so valuable is part scheme/QB and part talent.

You put Zeke on the Chiefs and dude would kill it but he could be replaced by Damien Williams easier.

Put Damien Williams with Dak and you would see a huge difference

No one would argue RB is more valuable than a QB though obviously. But the schemes able to be built around better QBs make the RB position less important.

Maybe it's late and I'm talking in circles lol