Is this the face of the NBA?

[beardown07]

 

[shitsho]

That's a bit of a ridiculous analogy. There are laws in place to protect women, non-whites and the disabled. Being a woman, non-white or disabled is not a choice. Getting visible tattoos and having wild hair are choices.

A business where employees have face to face contact with the general public is not likely to lose business because they employed a diverse group of women, non-whites and disabled folks. In fact, they are likely to increase business as a result of that practice.

Hiring someone who looks like a thug (whether they are or not) is likely to cost them business. Not saying it's right or fair, but it is what it is and ultimately it comes down to the choice that person made to look a certain way.

My stepdaughter has several tattoos. When she first approached my wife and I about getting her first tattoo we both told her the same things. Make sure that it is something that you are not likely to regret when you are our age or older and make sure that however many you get, they can all be covered by clothes you would wear to work (she's a nurse) because you will seriously hurt your chances of getting hired with visible tattoos.

She's had some amazing work done and every bit of it can be covered by her nursing scrubs!!

Calling it ridiculous is a stretch. Its based on peoples perception of you by sight so its in the same exact thing. Since integrity has nothing to do with man made laws thats not really the issue. The issue is do you compromise what you stand for just because you want to make a larger profit margin? I get your "reality" based approach but thats just an excuse no matter how you dress it up.

 

[beardown07]

 

[beardown07]

Don't get mad at me, cuz ya got buyer's remorse on your hand-tattoo.

 

[trojanfan12]

Calling it ridiculous is a stretch. Its based on peoples perception of you by sight so its in the same exact thing. Since integrity has nothing to do with man made laws thats not really the issue. The issue is do you compromise what you stand for just because you want to make a larger profit margin? I get your "reality" based approach but thats just an excuse no matter how you dress it up.

Since when is reality an excuse? Reality is the ultimate decision maker on whether a theory is viable or not. You can have all of these great theories about how people should be able to look and dress however they want and how it should have no bearing on their employability and their effect on a business. But those theories mean absolutely nothing in the real world.

Pulling in theoretical analogies that have no application in the real world because they are A.) Against the law and B.) bad business practices merely attempts to make a point that has nothing to do with the issue at hand which is how a person chooses to look.

Visible tats and wild hair are a choice, the others are not.

 

[shitsho]

Since when is reality an excuse? Reality is the ultimate decision maker on whether a theory is viable or not. You can have all of these great theories about how people should be able to look and dress however they want and how it should have no bearing on their employability and their effect on a business. But those theories mean absolutely nothing in the real world.

Pulling in theoretical analogies that have no application in the real world because they are A.) Against the law and B.) bad business practices merely attempts to make a point that has nothing to do with the issue at hand which is how a person chooses to look.

Visible tats and wild hair are a choice, the others are not.

"Reality" (as you are calling it) is an excuse because its really about public perception just like I used in my analogy you thought was ridiculous. That fact that this perception can be changed is what makes it an excuse. There was a time blacks couldn't eat in a restaraunts with whites. That was "reality". People that had integrity and allowed it to happen lost business because of public perception from one group. Those that chose to just roll with the status quo lacked personal integrity. So its not theoretical at all. This stuff happened and will continue to happen as long as people get a bug up their asses about something that offends their eyes.

 

[trojanfan12]

"Reality" (as you are calling it) is an excuse because its really about public perception just like I used in my analogy you thought was ridiculous. That fact that this perception can be changed is what makes it an excuse. There was a time blacks couldn't eat in a restaraunts with whites. That was "reality". People that had integrity and allowed it to happen lost business because of public perception from one group. Those that chose to just roll with the status quo lacked personal integrity. So its not theoretical at all. This stuff happened and will continue to happen as long as people get a bug up their asses about something that offends their eyes.

You are still talking about something that is a choice vs. not a choice. A black person has no choice on whether or not they are black. They do, however, have a choice re: whether or not they choose to have visible tattoos or not. So no, your analogy doesn't work. It only works if a person could choose their race, gender or disability.

You can call reality and excuse all you want, but the fact is, if a business owner chooses to hire employees that do not fit the image of the business and the business fails as a result, what good is your theory then?

I have a friend who weighs about 450 lbs. What are the chances that he could get hired by a health club as a personal trainer or as a consultant for Jenny Craig?

 

[geneh_33]

"Reality" (as you are calling it) is an excuse because its really about public perception just like I used in my analogy you thought was ridiculous. That fact that this perception can be changed is what makes it an excuse. There was a time blacks couldn't eat in a restaraunts with whites. That was "reality". People that had integrity and allowed it to happen lost business because of public perception from one group. Those that chose to just roll with the status quo lacked personal integrity. So its not theoretical at all. This stuff happened and will continue to happen as long as people get a bug up their asses about something that offends their eyes.

I can't help but be offended when all of these guys post pics/art that make fun of Jesus. I know Jesus is just someone to be made fun of by an unbeliever but it offends me because Jesus is my King.

Seriously, what did Jesus ever do to warrant such insults? If you want to offend Christians, post something that offends Christians and leave the innocent Christ alone.

But I know, sadly enough, that this post will just inspire more unbelievers to post away the pics/art to make fun of Jesus even more.

 

[Thruthefog]

I think unbelievers see the hypocrisy in the whole debate. As Christians or whatever religion you may be, you are not to judge people, kill people, basically all the commandments. People that swear up and down they believe in God and religion but call you a moron in the same breath are hypocrites. There is a God but nobody knows for sure what denomination he/she is or if he even gets involved in the day to day life of people. I dont mind that some people dont believe in God because my faith that there is one is above question by any other human being. My problem is more so with religion because it sounds suspiciously like something men invented for crowd control.

I don't remember hijacking this ID. But I must have. I wonder if I'm a schitzo. It would explain the sleeve tats and punk wig in the closet.

Seriously, montsho, are you a visual mathematician?

 

[shitsho]

You are still talking about something that is a choice vs. not a choice. A black person has no choice on whether or not they are black. They do, however, have a choice re: whether or not they choose to have visible tattoos or not. So no, your analogy doesn't work. It only works if a person could choose their race, gender or disability.

You can call reality and excuse all you want, but the fact is, if a business owner chooses to hire employees that do not fit the image of the business and the business fails as a result, what good is your theory then?

I have a friend who weighs about 450 lbs. What are the chances that he could get hired by a health club as a personal trainer or as a consultant for Jenny Craig?

I agree the tattoos and hair style are about choices. I'm failing to understand what choice has to do with compromising your integrity because you fear a loss of business? I think my analogy doesn't work to you because you don't want hear what I am saying and thats ok. If you believe that someone can look they way they chose to as long as it is not physically harming someone, but then turn around and cave to public perception, you are lacking conviction in your beliefs. Thats not an indictment of anyone but lets call it like it is.

 

[JDM]

I don't see how making people be clean cut and free of visible tattoos is compromising your integrity.

You can look how you want but it will cost you in the business world. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

[shitsho]

I can't help but be offended when all of these guys post pics/art that make fun of Jesus. I know Jesus is just someone to be made fun of by an unbeliever but it offends me because Jesus is my King.

Seriously, what did Jesus ever do to warrant such insults? If you want to offend Christians, post something that offends Christians and leave the innocent Christ alone.

But I know, sadly enough, that this post will just inspire more unbelievers to post away the pics/art to make fun of Jesus even more.

I understand how it can be offensive to you. I guess I believe that if you are steadfast in your belief in any cause you laugh at and feel sympathy for those that scoff at you. I would question how deep my own belief was if I got rattled by a picture making fun of my king. Just sayin.

 

[Thruthefog]

Don't fool yourselves. If you believe one way, and go against those beliefs for more profit, you're compromising your integrity. It's not like you are the only one. One of the biggest talents in this country is the ability to justify anything. Mobsters justified murder all the time. But they were in church every Sunday. Lets not kid ourselves. Money is the number one god in this country. Even to some of the most religious people. Now I have no problem with someone who wants to make a lot of money. I admire that. It's a worthy goal. My problem starts when they want to talk out of both sides of their mouths.

 

[shitsho]

I don't see how making people be clean cut and free of visible tattoos is compromising your integrity.

You can look how you want but it will cost you in the business world. There's nothing wrong with that.

If you believe that someone can look they way they chose to as long as it is not physically harming someone, but then turn around and cave to public perception, you are lacking conviction in your beliefs. Thats not an indictment of anyone but lets call it like it is.

 

[JDM]

If you believe that someone can look they way they chose to as long as it is not physically harming someone, but then turn around and cave to public perception, you are lacking conviction in your beliefs. Thats not an indictment of anyone but lets call it like it is.

They know what reality is. Refusing to live up to it tells me they aren't serious.

 

[shitsho]

They know what reality is. Refusing to live up to it tells me they aren't serious.

Please see my above post on "reality". Reality cannot be changed but perception can.

 

[shitsho]

Don't fool yourselves. If you believe one way, and go against those beliefs for more profit, you're compromising your integrity. It's not like you are the only one. One of the biggest talents in this country is the ability to justify anything. Mobsters justified murder all the time. But they were in church every Sunday. Lets not kid ourselves. Money is the number one god in this country. Even to some of the most religious people. Now I have no problem with someone who wants to make a lot of money. I admire that. It's a worthy goal. My problem starts when they want to talk out of both sides of their mouths.

Well said. All of us say things from time to time that they really dont believe in just to get along with whatever the prevailing public perception is. We justify it in order to remain in our comfort zone. Takes a hero to be 100% about it all the time.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I understand how it can be offensive to you. I guess I believe that if you are steadfast in your belief in any cause you laugh at and feel sympathy for those that scoff at you. I would question how deep my own belief was if I got rattled by a picture making fun of my king. Just sayin.

except it should say IMO 'perceived making fun of'.

 

[JDM]

There are a variety of psychological effects in play as to why people who look different are treated differently. Is it fair? Maybe not. Do I care? No.

What it comes down to, is that in a lot of interactions, this will have a negative effect on their ability to get a productive result. When it is something easily in their control, and they choose not to maximize their chances with that, I have no reason they will do everything else to maximize their success.

Personally, I would never disqualify someone solely on tattoos. But in a lot of roles, if they choose to be "unprofessional" in appearance, that will hurt me, and signal that they will be willing to be unprofessional in other ways. If I have a chance to meet them and get a better feel for them, it will only matter if that fits the rest of how I feel about them. But it will play a role, because it should play a role.

 

[shitsho]

There are a variety of psychological effects in play as to why people who look different are treated differently. Is it fair? Maybe not. Do I care? No.

What it comes down to, is that in a lot of interactions, this will have a negative effect on their ability to get a productive result. When it is something easily in their control, and they choose not to maximize their chances with that, I have no reason they will do everything else to maximize their success.

Personally, I would never disqualify someone solely on tattoos. But in a lot of roles, if they choose to be "unprofessional" in appearance, that will hurt me, and signal that they will be willing to be unprofessional in other ways. If I have a chance to meet them and get a better feel for them, it will only matter if that fits the rest of how I feel about them. But it will play a role, because it should play a role.

I get what you are saying and I actually used to agree with you. I did not care what made people act the way they do. Because of that I was reactive instead of proactive. I had a wealthy mentor of mine give me a quote that basically said "with one tiny exception the world is made up of other people." Wouldnt it just be intelligent on your part to find out why people do what they do if you are truly serious about being a leader, great parent, or even getting wealthy?

The one problem with your premise is that you are assuming people would think someone looked "unprofessional" and thats really just based on what you believe unprofessional looks like. I know we know this intellectually but emotionally its really hard to let go of your "me" based perspective on life.