Is Philip Rivers currently the best QB in the NFL?

[GNG]

No....I said in general that SB's (as in # of rings) themselves shouldn't define how good a player is. I judge players by how they actually perform in wins and losses.

Then Aaron Rodgers should be #1.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Then Aaron Rodgers should be #1.

Rodgers, as I said, is the best QB in football today.

 

[SteelersPride]

No....I said in general that SB's (as in # of rings) themselves shouldn't define how good a player is. I judge players by how they actually perform in wins and losses. Do you think you can grasp it this time? Do I need pie charts and flow graphs?

god r u annoying

 

[soxfan1468927]

...and as I said, when Benny was doing that, his defense was a perennial #1 ranked unit. In general, he hasn't made a full SB run since those times. Rivers has had fewer chances with generally lesser teams, and hasn't had a legit chance in a good 8-10 in doing so. You have to look at much, much more than just defensive points allowed, as it was only just one example.

Yeah and I'm not going to give Rivers credit for games that haven't happened. But it's not like Rivers has been the to playoffs once or twice. He's been five times and hasn't been anywhere close to a championship. And the closest he got to a Super Bowl, he sucked. So like I said, the only way you can put Rivers over Roethlisberger is if you completely ignore the playoffs.

 

[cdumler7]

Yeah and I'm not going to give Rivers credit for games that haven't happened. But it's not like Rivers has been the to playoffs once or twice. He's been five times and hasn't been anywhere close to a championship. And the closest he got to a Super Bowl, he sucked. So like I said, the only way you can put Rivers over Roethlisberger is if you completely ignore the playoffs.

Didn't he play that Championship game with a torn ACL?

 

[soxfan1468927]

Didn't he play that Championship game with a torn ACL?

It showed.

 

[cdumler7]

It showed.

Ok? Doesn't mean it wasn't still impressive for a guy to go out and try to win a game with his teammates when he clearly was nowhere near 100%.

It also doesn't help that Rivers' best teams lined up perfectly when the Pats had their best teams. To me he just hasn't had the breaks go his way throughout his career. I'm one that just looking purely at the QB's and not the teams around them I would take Rivers over Big Ben or Eli Manning if I am starting a franchise and starting them at the beginning of their careers.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Ok? Doesn't mean it wasn't still impressive for a guy to go out and try to win a game with his teammates when he clearly was nowhere near 100%.

It also doesn't help that Rivers' best teams lined up perfectly when the Pats had their best teams. To me he just hasn't had the breaks go his way throughout his career. I'm one that just looking purely at the QB's and not the teams around them I would take Rivers over Big Ben or Eli Manning if I am starting a franchise and starting them at the beginning of their careers.

Of course that's impressive, but that's the furthest he got.

The best Patriots team was the 2004 team, and it was Ben that lost to them, not Rivers. Not sure how Rivers best team lined up perfectly with the Pats best teams. 2006 Patriots were no where near the best Pats team.

That's fine, I look at the actual results of the guy's play, and not some imaginary draft.

 

[cdumler7]

Of course that's impressive, but that's the furthest he got.

The best Patriots team was the 2004 team, and it was Ben that lost to them, not Rivers. Not sure how Rivers best team lined up perfectly with the Pats best teams. 2006 Patriots were no where near the best Pats team.

That's fine, I look at the actual results of the guy's play, and not some imaginary draft.

No what you are looking at is the actual team results not the individual results. 2007 is when Rivers' made it to the AFC Championship game. Now I guess we can get into an argument of you can't say the 2007 team was the best Pats team because they didn't win the Super Bowl but to me that was one of the best teams to ever play and just happened to lose at the worst possible time.

For the Chargers the best team they had was in 2004 going 14-2. They lost in overtime in the playoffs in the divisional round. It happens. Not every year does the best team actually win the Super Bowl. Teams get hot at the right time quite often in this league.

 

[soxfan1468927]

No what you are looking at is the actual team results not the individual results. 2007 is when Rivers' made it to the AFC Championship game. Now I guess we can get into an argument of you can't say the 2007 team was the best Pats team because they didn't win the Super Bowl but to me that was one of the best teams to ever play and just happened to lose at the worst possible time.

For the Chargers the best team they had was in 2004 going 14-2. They lost in overtime in the playoffs in the divisional round. It happens. Not every year does the best team actually win the Super Bowl. Teams get hot at the right time quite often in this league.

No I'm actually looking at the individual results. Ben put together one good run to get to the Super Bowl (and then sucked in the Super Bowl but won anyway). And he put together one good run to win the Super Bowl. Rivers has done neither.

And a few things
1. Rivers wasn't the starter on that 2004 team
2. They went 12-4 and lost in the Wild Card round in OT
3. Like I said, the 2006 team was the best Chargers team and the 2006 Patriots were no where close to the best Pats team

You said Rivers best teams lined up perfectly with the Pats best teams, and that's not true at all. He happened to face the 2007 Patriots, but not with his best team.

 

[soxfan1468927]

So like I said, in order to put Rivers over Roethlisberger, you have to ignore the playoffs. That's fine if you want to do that, but that's not how I would rank them.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

The best QB, possibly ever, is going to be available this offseason. Jay Cutler will either be traded or cut. I wonder who's lucky enough to get him...

 

[Ricky Roma]

So like I said, the only way you can put Rivers over Roethlisberger is if you completely ignore the playoffs.

Well you can....but that's simply faulty logic. You are practically equating the teams themselves, and the amount of opportunities that either had legit shots. The fact of the matter is, Roethlisberger's overall playoff performance is average at best, and the Steelers went to 3 Super Bowls, winning 2. I'd say the same thing about Rivers....yet the Chargers as you said, never really were close. The Steelers have had five double-digit winning seasons since the last time the Chargers had one. That ain't because of how dreamy Ben is/crappy Rivers is.

So no....I don't not have to completely ignore anything except any notion that Rivers and Roethlisberger had realistically the same teams/organizations/legit opportunities to attain the same team achievements.

 

[sonnyblack65]

god r u annoying

He has been on tilt since Brady became the GOAT surpassing his boyhood idol. You know people here hate Brady but he got 54 votes, Montana 12 and other 11

One guy has been to the Olympics 7 times 5 gold and 2 silver, another guy has been to 4 and won 4 gold and another has been to 1. Rivers has been to 0 and Ben has been 3 times and won 2 gold and 1 silver,

The GOAT

 

[SteelersPride]

He has been on tilt since Brady became the GOAT surpassing his boyhood idol. You know people here hate Brady but he got 54 votes, Montana 12 and other 11

One guy has been to the Olympics 7 times 5 gold and 2 silver, another guy has been to 4 and won 4 gold and another has been to 1. Rivers has been to 0 and Ben has been 3 times and won 2 gold and 1 silver,

The GOAT

lol hes alwasy on tilt with little to back it up

 

[soxfan1468927]

Well you can....but that's simply faulty logic. You are practically equating the teams themselves, and the amount of opportunities that either had legit shots. The fact of the matter is, Roethlisberger's overall playoff performance is average at best, and the Steelers went to 3 Super Bowls, winning 2. I'd say the same thing about Rivers....yet the Chargers as you said, never really were close. The Steelers have had five double-digit winning seasons since the last time the Chargers had one. That ain't because of how dreamy Ben is/crappy Rivers is.

So no....I don't not have to completely ignore anything except any notion that Rivers and Roethlisberger had realistically the same teams/organizations/legit opportunities to attain the same team achievements.

No I'm not equating the teams themselves, and I don't care about overall playoff performance. I've explained why and you haven't responded.

You're cherry picking the numbers. You look at the last 7 years and say that Rivers teams weren't as good as Roethlisberger's. I agree. But that's not even when Roethlisberger had his postseason success. If the question was "who would you take in the last 7 years, Ben or Rivers" then I could understand the argument.

However, from 2006-2009 Rivers had very good teams. Overall they allowed the 6th fewer points in the league and had the 3rd highest winning percentage in the NFL. If he performed like Ben did in 2008 or how he did in 2005, they very well could have at least gone to the Super Bowl in 2006 or 2009. It's not like his defense didn't perform well in the games they lost. I'll give him a pass for 2007 since, like someone posted, he did have a torn ACL.

They had very similar opportunities early in their careers. Obviously not the exact same opportunities as you'll never achieve that, but the difference in individual results is much larger than the difference in how good the teams were.

Since then? I can see the argument that they are a lot closer than people want to admit. But you can't just ignore the early years when both guys had good teams and one guy was successful and one guy wasn't.

 

[Ricky Roma]

They had very similar opportunities early in their careers. Obviously not the exact same opportunities as you'll never achieve that, but the difference in individual results is much larger than the difference in how good the teams were.

Uh huh. Not only did Roethlisberger put up garbage numbers in the SB against Sea, but he also did the same leading up to the Bowl against GB - a 10-19 for 133 yards, 0 TD's and 2 ints.....and just like the Sea game, the Steelers won. Rivers rarely had that luxury when he played poor, and the Chargers advanced.

So no....I am not ignoring much of anything, and there is no cherry picking stats when I am talking his entire career into consideration, and providing clear examples of the advantages that Roethlisberger enjoyed that Rivers hardly ever did. Given the totality of their respective playoff careers, there is no way I can separate the two to a point where one is clearly ahead of the other.

 

[SteelersPride]

Uh huh. Not only did Roethlisberger put up garbage numbers in the SB against Sea, but he also did the same leading up to the Bowl against GB - a 10-19 for 133 yards, 0 TD's and 2 ints.....and just like the Sea game, the Steelers won. Rivers rarely had that luxury when he played poor, and the Chargers advanced.

So no....I am not ignoring much of anything, and there is no cherry picking stats when I am talking his entire career into consideration, and providing clear examples of the advantages that Roethlisberger enjoyed that Rivers hardly ever did. Given the totality of their respective playoff careers, there is no way I can separate the two to a point where one is clearly ahead of the other.

someone went to stooopid school

 

[soxfan1468927]

Uh huh. Not only did Roethlisberger put up garbage numbers in the SB against Sea, but he also did the same leading up to the Bowl against GB - a 10-19 for 133 yards, 0 TD's and 2 ints.....and just like the Sea game, the Steelers won. Rivers rarely had that luxury when he played poor, and the Chargers advanced.

So no....I am not ignoring much of anything, and there is no cherry picking stats when I am talking his entire career into consideration, and providing clear examples of the advantages that Roethlisberger enjoyed that Rivers hardly ever did. Given the totality of their respective playoff careers, there is no way I can separate the two to a point where one is clearly ahead of the other.

You still don't understand the point that is being made. I don't know how to spell it out any clearer for you. I'll try one more time.

You point out games in which Roethlisberger sucked and he still won, and then say that Rivers didn't have as many of those opportunities. I agree, but I'm not giving Roethlisberger credit for the Super Bowl XL win or the Super Bowl XLV run. You can bring them up all you want, but I'm not talking about those games. I'm saying that Roethlisberger put together a run to the Super Bowl in 2005 and a run in 2008 that Rivers never did. And you are ignoring both of those runs.

Yes, you are cherry picking stats by saying Rivers didn't have as good of teams as Roethlisberger since the Steelers have double digit wins 5 times since the Chargers had one. That cherry picks the last 7 years, and like I said, if the question was who has been better over the last 7 years, I can understand the argument. Roethlisberger hasn't really accomplished anything in the playoffs the last 7 years as I don't give him much credit for the 2010 Super Bowl run. But, it ignores the fact that early in their careers, they had similar opportunities as far as teams go.

The totality of a playoff career means NOTHING. I don't understand why this is hard to get. Peyton Manning in the 2003 playoffs had a 106.4 rating overall in the playoffs. Excellent playoff run right? Wrong. He had two excellent Wild Card and Divisional Round games, and then threw 4 INTs in the AFC Championship. So if you looked at his playoff career in total, you would see a decent rating. But that's not how you win.

 

[Ricky Roma]

The totality of a playoff career means NOTHING.

To you it does...to me, it gives a far clearer image of how legit his actual play is, thus proving my point. The rest of your post is rather irrelevant, so why you keep repeating it is beyond me, and in the end, it matters not. Roethlisberger's case isn't head and shoulders above Rivers, hence, I can make a case for #17, which was point all along.