POLL If prime Jordan played in today's NBA - would he be the best?

[Wamu]

Talk about trying to start an argument (and accuse me of doing it). wow...that never happens.

In fact, I offered a respectful reply to you but also a counterpoint.

I'll do it again.....I get that was how Bird (and other players) were wired. My question, which is a fair one, is if he knew better might he have changed his thinking.

a simple yes or no would be OK. Or if that was offensive to you keep scrolling.

I changed what I said after you quoted me. Read comment # 237 again.

 

[Bart]

Did you just say Jordan doesn’t have the play making ability of LeBron?!?

LeBron struggles to beat guys off the dribble, unless he has a full head of steam on the break and they don’t want to get in front of him.

If Jordan played in today’s NBA — he’d probably average 20+ FT’s a game. He got to the basket at will during a time where ‘no blood, no foul’ was the NBA’s mantra. It is the only reason the Detroit Pistons won titles because we’d beat teams up.

In today’s NBA, they can’t even look at the offensive player the wrong way or you get whistled for a foul.

I’m still laughing at the comment that Jordan doesn’t have the playmaking ability of Lebron. The real statement should say — IF Lebron had Jordan’s play making ability, he would be unstoppable.

Jordan’s play making and most importantly his killer instinct is the reason why MJ is still the clear #1. Jordan would step on his own mother’s throat to win. You are born with it and Lebron wasn’t.

You’re so clueless or trolling. It’s common NBA knowledge Lebron is a better playmaker than Jordan. Lebron’s career assist average is higher. Jordan was a shoot first 2 guard. Nothing wrong with that, it’s what he excelled at but don’t pretend to be ignorant that Lebron looks for the best possible basketball play and sets up players as well as any of the top all time playmakers to ever play the game. Look at the link below, I don’t see Jordan’s name on it.


NBA History: 5 greatest playmakers of all time


No one is saying Jordan wasn’t a great player during his time, he absolutely was. The question is would he be the undisputed best player if he played during today’s game and the answer is no. He would be a top player, no doubt, but facing more athletic players on a consistent basis and the game evolving to focus on 3 point shooting would be a hindrance to his greatness. That’s why I made the comparison to DeRozan, they have similar shooting games which don’t fit well in today’s NBA.


ROFL @ the “Killer Instinct”. I guess, if you call being coddled by refs and competing in a watered down league against undersized players.

 

[Bart]

No doubt....The Fratello era Cavs were one of the lesser teams.

Yep. It served them well to stay competitive. What ever happen to Fratello, he was a good coach

 

[Hitman Hart]

40 PPG, 10 APG, 10 RPG, 3.5 BPG, 60% FG, 45% 3 PT FG, 10:1 assist: TO ratio

oh yeah, that's the good stuff

 

[Carnzo]

Drugs are bad for you.

 

[dtgold88]

Yep. It served them well to stay competitive. What ever happen to Fratello, he was a good coach

He's my favorite Cavalier coach all time. Now he's with TNT I believe (Czar of Telestrator). Cannot recall why he was fired. Guessing just been long enough it was time for a change....for everyone.

 

[dtgold88]

I changed what I said after you quoted me. Read comment # 237 again.

Missed the answer.

And I disagree. But we cannot know for sure.

 

[Bart]

I feel the need to point out that Jordan “struggling vs. Dumars” still averaged 29.95 PPG in his playoff career against Dumars and the Pistons.

And let’s not act like that was Dumars guarding MU 1 on 1. It was Dumars with every other Piston defender loaded ball side as much as the rules would allow ready to swarm and maim MJ on every drive attempt.

Dumars locking down MJ was a myth. The Pistons did a better job against him than anybody, but it was a team effort and Jordan still did plenty well. The “struggle” was more in that the Pistons won every matchup before the 1990 Bulls sweep and that Jordan got beat down physically.

What was Jordan fg% against Dumars? I'm sure it was below his average. Dumars is only 6-3 and isn't particularly athletic and this is the best defender the NBA had to offer at the time. As time went on it only got worse, with guys like Starks touted as great defenders that Jordan faced. Today, it would only be worse for him with having to face players with quick feet, long arms and over 6-3. We all know he had to push off Byron Russell to get his shot off, what would he have to do if Paul George was on him.

And every star has to face a team of defenders when being guarded, why do you think Jordan special in that regard?

 

[Bart]

Yes because Jordan possessed a different skill set that would be tailored around. He wouldn’t be a plug and play type guy. Like you wouldn’t expect him to fill a Klay Thompson or James Harden role. He’d be incorporated differently to let him work in space. Just think of what Kawhi is doing, only just a better player doing just that.

What would be this "tailoring" be like? What would a team with Jordan look like in today's game?

And I'm not so sure Jordan would be better than Kawhi in today's game. Kawhi is a better shooter.

 

[Bart]

That is insane.

KD has turned into a good defender, but his strength is on help side. He is solid on the ball too, but not as good as you make him out to be.

Jordan was significantly faster and stronger. He would have done just fine getting quality shots off against KD. Just like KD would have done just fine getting quality shots off against MJ or Pippen.

KD would have given MJ trouble, that's not even an argument here. Kobe had trouble shooting over Durant and he's a much better shooter than MJ. And MJ isn't going around Durant that easily either, Durant can sag off because of his length. MJ never faced anyone even close to Durant.

 

[CitySushi]

What would be this "tailoring" be like? What would a team with Jordan look like in today's game?

And I'm not so sure Jordan would be better than Kawhi in today's game. Kawhi is a better shooter.

In Jordan's prime, the 3 ball wasn't nearly as emphasized. If it was, given Jordan's work ethic (and his improvement on his post game, most notably his fade away), that he wouldn't be able to develop a much better 3 point shot?

You're taking Jordan, in his era where big men dominated and post game was revered and placing him in today's game where it's 3 ball or die. Of course his skill set doesn't match because the emphasis of what he trained to do matched his era. So you're comparing apples to oranges.

Tailoring a team around Jordan, would be much like tailoring a team around Lebron. Take a look at all the shit Lebron's received in his career. People wanted him to be MORE aggressive scoring the ball and not defer so much to his teammates. That would be Jordan.

Additionally Lebron is a career 34.3% 3 point shooter. Jordan was 32.7, when no one cared that much about it. Much like Giannis, Jordan would only need to be a respectable 3 point shooter. He could get to the basket any time he wanted or simply rise up above people and shoot. Then he had his post game. The fade-away was unstoppable. He was aggressive in going to the hoop and drawing contact.

Jordan is absolutely still the best player in today's game. Oh and he's one of the best defensive players of all time too.

 

[Bart]

In Jordan's prime, the 3 ball wasn't nearly as emphasized. If it was, given Jordan's work ethic (and his improvement on his post game, most notably his fade away), that he wouldn't be able to develop a much better 3 point shot?

You're taking Jordan, in his era where big men dominated and post game was revered and placing him in today's game where it's 3 ball or die. Of course his skill set doesn't match because the emphasis of what he trained to do matched his era. So you're comparing apples to oranges.

Tailoring a team around Jordan, would be much like tailoring a team around Lebron. Take a look at all the shit Lebron's received in his career. People wanted him to be MORE aggressive scoring the ball and not defer so much to his teammates. That would be Jordan.

Additionally Lebron is a career 34.3% 3 point shooter. Jordan was 32.7, when no one cared that much about it. Much like Giannis, Jordan would only need to be a respectable 3 point shooter. He could get to the basket any time he wanted or simply rise up above people and shoot. Then he had his post game. The fade-away was unstoppable. He was aggressive in going to the hoop and drawing contact.

Jordan is absolutely still the best player in today's game. Oh and he's one of the best defensive players of all time too.

If you think Jordan worked on his fade away but not his 3 point shot during his career, that’s a bit ignorant. Jordan saw Reggie Miller use that as an effective weapon in his arsenal, you don’t think Jordan would want that and show up Reggie? You can know for damn sure Jordan worked on his 3 point shot tireless but he never became great at it. He knows it wasn’t his strength and never would be so he didn’t utilize it in games as much.


I don’t think you tailor a team around Jordan like you do Lebron. Lebron has a passing mentality. Jordan’s mentality is closer to Harden. If Jordan tried to play like Lebron, he’s team wouldn’t be as successful. I think people forget how stacked Jordan’s teams were in comparison to his competition. He wouldn’t have that luxury in today’s league. He wouldn’t be playing Reggie Miller and a bunch of scrubs with names you can’t remember or Ewing and a bunch of rejects Riley manage to make into a contender. He would be facing the Cavs with Lebron, Love and Kyrie, the Rockets with CP3 and Harden, and of course, GSW with Durant, Curry and Klay. How the heck is Jordan going to contend with that when he had trouble with Reggie Miller and bunch of tomato cans while Jordan was teamed up with Rodman, Pippen, Kukoc, Harper, Kerr (one of the best 3 point shooters ever).


It’s comical how the myth of Jordan created by Nike has some many overrating him. He was a great player, like Lebron, Curry, Durant and Harden but to say he would be the best in today’s game without huge reservations is very naïve.

 

[Roy Munson]

Macaroni Salad should be winning this.

 

[Bart]

People talk about guys from a different era as if you would just put them in a time capsule. If anyone has any doubt that if MJ grew up in this era that he would still not be the best player on the planet you either are to young to know or you were smoking too much weed back then and weren’t paying attention. He would dominate today just like he did back then, no doubt about that because no matter what everyone was doing he would do it better and make them like it.

Nike has brainwashed you.

 

[Bart]

Macaroni Salad should be winning this.

Within a point, I'm expecting a late run.

 

[CitySushi]

If you think Jordan worked on his fade away but not his 3 point shot during his career, that’s a bit ignorant. Jordan saw Reggie Miller use that as an effective weapon in his arsenal, you don’t think Jordan would want that and show up Reggie? You can know for damn sure Jordan worked on his 3 point shot tireless but he never became great at it. He knows it wasn’t his strength and never would be so he didn’t utilize it in games as much.


I don’t think you tailor a team around Jordan like you do Lebron. Lebron has a passing mentality. Jordan’s mentality is closer to Harden. If Jordan tried to play like Lebron, he’s team wouldn’t be as successful. I think people forget how stacked Jordan’s teams were in comparison to his competition. He wouldn’t have that luxury in today’s league. He wouldn’t be playing Reggie Miller and a bunch of scrubs with names you can’t remember or Ewing and a bunch of rejects Riley manage to make into a contender. He would be facing the Cavs with Lebron, Love and Kyrie, the Rockets with CP3 and Harden, and of course, GSW with Durant, Curry and Klay. How the heck is Jordan going to contend with that when he had trouble with Reggie Miller and bunch of tomato cans while Jordan was teamed up with Rodman, Pippen, Kukoc, Harper, Kerr (one of the best 3 point shooters ever).


It’s comical how the myth of Jordan created by Nike has some many overrating him. He was a great player, like Lebron, Curry, Durant and Harden but to say he would be the best in today’s game without huge reservations is very naïve.

I think its ignorant to think that all of these players today are just magically better at 3 point shooting and not because it was a point of emphasis in their development. If you're putting Jordan in today's game you have to at least consider points of emphasis. Jordan may have worked on his post game and his 3 point shot, but the degree to which he worked on either is up for debate.

And do you honestly believe Jordan is the type of player who said "Hey Reggie is a great 3 point shooter, so I'm gonna do the same" or was he more of a "I could give a fuck how he scores, I'm going to shut him down and we're going to win the game". He wasn't a guy who was going to mimic other people, so using one player as a reference for him wanting to be a better 3 point shooter is a ridiculous argument.

I watched Jordan play, so it's not a built up myth to me. I do agree there is an extent his legend is exaggerated, but Jordan would have been the GOAT in any era. He had a killer instinct and determination to win that I've yet to see be rivaled (probably closest is Kobe). Jordan was the ultimate competitor and to think that he wouldn't have FOUND a way to be the greatest I think is the biggest flaw in your argument. You're absolutely right in that a transfer of his skillset offensively to today's game is not conducive, but it's also not right to think that given his ability to improve or alter his game a bit is also naive.

 

[Bart]

Just to let everyone know, you can vote twice in this poll. Once for the Jordan question and once for the salad question.

Go Macaroni Salad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[trojanfan12]

I think its ignorant to think that all of these players today are just magically better at 3 point shooting and not because it was a point of emphasis in their development. If you're putting Jordan in today's game you have to at least consider points of emphasis. Jordan may have worked on his post game and his 3 point shot, but the degree to which he worked on either is up for debate.

And do you honestly believe Jordan is the type of player who said "Hey Reggie is a great 3 point shooter, so I'm gonna do the same" or was he more of a "I could give a fuck how he scores, I'm going to shut him down and we're going to win the game". He wasn't a guy who was going to mimic other people, so using one player as a reference for him wanting to be a better 3 point shooter is a ridiculous argument.

I watched Jordan play, so it's not a built up myth to me. I do agree there is an extent his legend is exaggerated, but Jordan would have been the GOAT in any era. He had a killer instinct and determination to win that I've yet to see be rivaled (probably closest is Kobe). Jordan was the ultimate competitor and to think that he wouldn't have FOUND a way to be the greatest I think is the biggest flaw in your argument. You're absolutely right in that a transfer of his skillset offensively to today's game is not conducive, but it's also not right to think that given his ability to improve or alter his game a bit is also naive.

And imo, that's the problem with a lot of these type of discussions. The assumption that great players from the past wouldn't adjust their games or take advantage of todays advances in training, etc.

 

[Bart]

I think its ignorant to think that all of these players today are just magically better at 3 point shooting and not because it was a point of emphasis in their development. If you're putting Jordan in today's game you have to at least consider points of emphasis. Jordan may have worked on his post game and his 3 point shot, but the degree to which he worked on either is up for debate.

And do you honestly believe Jordan is the type of player who said "Hey Reggie is a great 3 point shooter, so I'm gonna do the same" or was he more of a "I could give a fuck how he scores, I'm going to shut him down and we're going to win the game". He wasn't a guy who was going to mimic other people, so using one player as a reference for him wanting to be a better 3 point shooter is a ridiculous argument.

I watched Jordan play, so it's not a built up myth to me. I do agree there is an extent his legend is exaggerated, but Jordan would have been the GOAT in any era. He had a killer instinct and determination to win that I've yet to see be rivaled (probably closest is Kobe). Jordan was the ultimate competitor and to think that he wouldn't have FOUND a way to be the greatest I think is the biggest flaw in your argument. You're absolutely right in that a transfer of his skillset offensively to today's game is not conducive, but it's also not right to think that given his ability to improve or alter his game a bit is also naive.

Jordan was a huge egotist, with an immense desire to be known as the best. Why wouldn’t he want to have a great 3 point shot as part of his arsenal especially since he was at heart a scorer? He worked tireless at his game, why wouldn’t he work tirelessly at that? Especially since it is an easy way to score a lot of points if your good at it. It really makes no sense for a player with an unheard of work ethic and huge ego who wanted to be known as the best player and scorer of all time, not to put a huge emphasis on 3 point shooting in his training. Honestly, the only conclusion you can draw is that he did in fact put a tremendous amount of effort to improve his 3 point shot and it never made that big of a difference in his efficiency. You don’t think if he was draining 3 pointers during his practice he wouldn’t ramp up his 3 point shooting in games to show off? This is the guy who shot a free throw with his eyes close to show off. There is no doubt in my mind, Jordan work his ass off to develop a 3 point shot but it just didn’t show the promise his fade away did, so he only used his 3 point shot selectively.


Well, Jordan didn’t “find a way” when Magic and Bird were ruling the league. It conveniently happened when the league became watered down and Magic and Bird were finished and one of the greatest all around 2-way players developed into an all-star. Check out Jordan’s record without Pippen, it will astonish you.


BTW, I commend your decision to rock hot chicks in your avatar, the rest of these wimps on the board want to wear a dude’s photo as an avatar, it’s deplorable.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Jordan was a huge egotist, with an immense desire to be known as the best. Why wouldn’t he want to have a great 3 point shot as part of his arsenal especially since he was at heart a scorer? He worked tireless at his game, why wouldn’t he work tirelessly at that?

Because he didn't need to. He was 6-0 in the finals - clearly whatever he did worked. The 3 point shot also wasn't as prevalent back then as it is now.

Might as well ask why he didn't try to because league leader in blocks?