Game Thread: I cannot take it anymore....

[randymon]

Am I the only one who sees a much bigger picture here regarding Tom Brady and deflategate crap? Here me out because I`am just as tired of listening everyday to NFL commentators, experts,former nfl players,etc,etc, keep talking the same BS regarding this incident. Is it at all possible that the Pats have been breaking this rule for much longer that just the AFCCG? Does anybody know how much easier it is to hold on to a deflated football in "inclement" weather? Do you think the Pats were killing two birds with one stone during these games? Not only does our Qb prefer deflated balls but it will help the other guys ( rbs,wrs) hold on to football as well? It`s well known now that is is much easier to alter balls during the moments before start of third period than it is at start of game so how many times have the Pats done this over the last few yrs in BAD weather gms. Does anybody know the Pats have been in top 4 ( twice #1 and twice #3 ) in LEAST amount of turnovers in that span? Does anybody out there think that they were doing that to gain an unfair advantage for their offense? How many gms could they have changed outcome of those gms? Maybe none,maybe it would have. Fact is, it`s very possible.Did the Pats know they were going to blow Indy out in 2nd half regardless. Would you take a chance on getting busted in that game if you hadn`t done it in the past and gotten away with it? No. They were confident because its worked many times before. This isn`t about just Brady, it`s about a team that may have been doing this for a long time and at least imo, possibly altered the outcome of some of those gms in those conditions. It would be real interesting to get the stats ( at least last 2yrs worth anyway) of how many turnovers, in BAD weather gms have the Pats had in 1st half compared to 2nd half and then compare that with the team that came in 2nd (in least amount of turnovers) during that span or year. Might not show nothing who knows, but would be interesting at least to see. IDK, I`am not the best at translating my thoughts to paper,if you will, but I can`t be alone in this thinking am I? Maybe cause I`am getting older the conspiracy, paranoia syndrome has crept into my brain.I promise, I wont vent like this again Anyway, a car just drove by and I think it`s the CIA so I got to implement my survivor/assault training plan.

 

[randymon]

I knew I shouldn't of posted that because I knew it wouldn't come out right but against my better judgement I did. What I was really trying to say was.....I don't think it is a big deal that Brady likes a deflated ball. All qbs have a preference and they have their balls adjusted accordingly. I don't think it gives an advantage one way or the other in a gm IMO. It's when you break a rule that would clearly give your team an advantage to help secure the ball and reduce the potential for turnovers in inclement weather games that bothers me. I'm not picking on Pats. I just think the issue should of headed in different direction or just have left it alone with 25,000 league fine normally applied. Ok going to shut my delusional trap now.

 

[Broncosballer32]

Yeah, I heard all of that. I posted the findings from an article a few months ago about their fumble rates. I think it was debunked.

The problem I see in all of this (bear in mind, I really do not care if they did.) is it is no big deal. The ones that are making it a big deal is NOT the NFL. It is Brady and the Pats. That, is the suspicious part.

If Brady from the beginning just admitted it and said I let the guys know how I like the footballs. I really did not know it was the big deal that it apparently is. I take full responsibility for my actions. Not much would have been done imo. I think there would have been a fine. Perhaps 25K or something.

Brady and the Pats have done NONE OF THAT. They have done the exact opposite. They have treated EVERYONE that has questioned anything about this with contempt. Almost as though they should be allowed to alter them. They threw the two equipment guys under the bus. They come up with utterly lame excuses that are frankly insulting.

From the Patriots’ rebuttal, written by attorney Daniel Goldberg:

“Mr. Jastremski would sometimes work out and bulk up — he is a slender guy and his goal was to get to 200 pounds. Mr. McNally is a big fellow and had the opposite goal: to lose weight. ‘Deflate’ was a term they used to refer to losing weight.”

Along with other stupid things like the reasons he claims he destroyed his phone. It would be comical (and it is, do not think it isn't) if the Patriots have been trying to say shit like that with a straight face.

That has been the problem. The NFL I am sure wanted this to go away fast. The Pats (owner especially) has treated the NFL (the other owners) with contempt with all of these absurdities and it really reflects on how they really view everyone else.

That is what pisses off a lot of the other owners. They have drawn a line in the sand. The NFL wants a simple admission and they would have moved on. The Pats will not do any of that.

It really has become a Dr Seuss story....

 

[SpiritOf77]

From day one, I have thought that the entire thing is no big deal ... I can imagine that every team and every QB uses certain things to their advantage, and I just don't see the big problem ..

We discussed this a while ago at KFFL, and DC did make the point that the integrity of the game is at stake, which is a very valid point ..

But I think back to the Broncos - Pats game a few years ago on Monday Night football - it was the game in which Del Rio acted as the HC, and the Broncos jumped out to a 24-0 lead ..

Knowshon rushed for over 200 yards that game

Now, prior to the Broncos crawling into a shell and collapsing in that game, where did all these deflated balls help that Pats ?? ..... In that game, we needed ONE SCORE - a few first downs, a decent drive, whatever - during the 2nd half ... The Pats stopped everything , and we helped them out by crawling into that awful shell ......

The deflated ball thing is no big deal in my opinion

 

[WalkerBoh]

Ehhhh..... that debunking of the fumbles wasn't as conclusive as people think. There's still something to this, especially when you compare Pats stats to other cold weather teams. Also, when you compare fumble stats for players who played for the Pats and elsewhere, they all have better fumble stats as Patriots.

Belichick is one of those coaches who bends the rules as far as he can. It's his MO. When you coach like that though, it's inevitable that rules will eventually be bent to their breaking points. I believe that's what we're seeing here. It's not just the AFCCG.

 

[58crash]

North Going Zack South going Zack

 

[Broncosballer32]

North Going Zack South going Zack

They are both doing what they were taught and believe. Respect the Zax.

 

[Mingo]

I also think that the controversy for deflate gate is a cover for the long term strategy by the Pats to have deflated footballs in use - Brady liked them and the Pats had less fumbles by far than other teams (not debunked - their results were beyond standard deviations in the stats). Why do you think Brady ditched his cell phone and refused to produce his text messages? It is because it was incriminating is an easy answer.

Where are the enterprising reporters who should be looking for the equipment guys and their story? They look like losers in this event, but their silence makes me believe they have been paid off.

 

[cdumler7]

Few things to add...Yeah I don't think the fumble thing was completely debunked. There is an article where a guy used his own criteria to show that while they have fumbled less than other teams because of these certain stats it shows it isn't as insane as some think. So both articles used stats to show what they wanted to show. We can manipulate stats very easily. Such as earlier in one of the other posts a Packers fan was pointing to Manning falling off at the end of the year where other stats show it wasn't as crazy as the media would like you to believe.

Beyond that the Patriots have always been known as that team that likes to venture into the gray area and even beyond if they have to. They have gotten in trouble for covering up injuries, putting guys on the IR that were not actually injured, obviously SpyGate, and there has been some talk that there is no other stadium that has the visiting team's headsets quit at the worst times possible more than that at Gillette Stadium. This has been the attitude of the Patriots since BB came to town and I don't see that changing just because they are getting fined. They have shown it is worth pushing into this area that other teams won't do if it means the team keeps winning even if it sets us back every once in a while such as losing draft picks.

 

[femurov]

Randy, you are definitely not the only one. This was my first thought when news of all of this broke. I wasn't worried about the AFCCG, I was wondering how long this has been going on and what other small infractions have been broken along the way. There is no way anybody is going to convince me that Brady, Belichick, the ball boys or anyone else in the organization took it upon themselves to deflate these balls for the first time in the AFCCG. The text messages from the ball boys refer to games earlier in the season. But the problem is, that there is so much false "evidence" out there and it's hard to sift through all the BS and see what is real and what isn't. I stopped trying a long time ago.

The good thing that comes out of this whole fiasco is that at least one of the parties involved (Goodell or the Patriots) will come out of it with a huge smudge on their reputation. And if it is the NFL, it could cost Goodell his job.

 

[DenBronc]

Few things to add...Yeah I don't think the fumble thing was completely debunked. There is an article where a guy used his own criteria to show that while they have fumbled less than other teams because of these certain stats it shows it isn't as insane as some think. So both articles used stats to show what they wanted to show. We can manipulate stats very easily. Such as earlier in one of the other posts a Packers fan was pointing to Manning falling off at the end of the year where other stats show it wasn't as crazy as the media would like you to believe.

Beyond that the Patriots have always been known as that team that likes to venture into the gray area and even beyond if they have to. They have gotten in trouble for covering up injuries, putting guys on the IR that were not actually injured, obviously SpyGate, and there has been some talk that there is no other stadium that has the visiting team's headsets quit at the worst times possible more than that at Gillette Stadium. This has been the attitude of the Patriots since BB came to town and I don't see that changing just because they are getting fined. They have shown it is worth pushing into this area that other teams won't do if it means the team keeps winning even if it sets us back every once in a while such as losing draft picks.

That's interesting that you brought the headset thing up. Allegedly, back in 2006, a Lion assistant said something about how their headsets went out on an important drive when they played the Pats in Foxboro in the regular season (as a Pat hater, I remember that game well. Kitna gave it away with his ineptitude).

Also, a friend of mine alleges that Mike Pereira said on TV once that the Pats were filming in other people's locker rooms, and had guys filming on the sidelines with press passes.

 

[Broncosballer32]

That's interesting that you brought the headset thing up. Allegedly, back in 2006, a Lion assistant said something about how their headsets went out on an important drive when they played the Pats in Foxboro in the regular season (as a Pat hater, I remember that game well. Kitna gave it away with his ineptitude).

Also, a friend of mine alleges that Mike Pereira said on TV once that the Pats were filming in other people's locker rooms, and had guys filming on the sidelines with press passes.

Do not forget under Josh Mcdaniels the Broncos were caught filming the 49ers practice sessions in England before they played there.

Filming San Francisco 49ers cost Denver Broncos, coach Josh McDaniels $100,000

 

[NEhomer]

If this has gone on for a long time, why were none of the fumbled or intercepted balls ever questioned by the players who caught/recovered them?

I've asked this several times and my question has never garnered any response at all. Sure, the refs handle the balls but they don't squeeze them like the players do.

So, anyone care to take a stab at it?

 

[BigKen]

The problem I see in all of this (bear in mind, I really do not care if they did.) is it is no big deal. The ones that are making it a big deal is NOT the NFL. It is Brady and the Pats. That, is the suspicious part.

You're incorrect. The NFL is making the big deal out of this. If the NFL gives in, it puts Goodell's authority under the CBA into question. The only reason that the owners are not pulling out is because they want Goodell to maintain the authority to penalize players. It's a very simple employer/employee issue.

The major problem is that the NFL got off track and they haven't been able to put the train back on course. If they had stayed with Article 46 of the CBA and nothing else, Judge Richard Berman would have thrown the case out. They didn't. They cited the Wells Report which was outside the CBA and they opened the door for Berman to question everything.

As far as deflating or changing the ball, every quarterback does something to the ball. Peyton Manning soaks them, has the surface roughed up and his procedure takes three to four days to get it where he likes it. His brother totally changes the ball through a three week process. While the NFL is putting policies and procedures in place to maintain all balls at 13 PSI, what will that do to Aaron Rodgers' performance? He likes his balls between 15-16 PSI. He certainly can't pump them up anymore or someone will blow the whistle. If the NFL is so concerned about the balls, why doesn't the league have the balls delivered to the stadium one hour before all games? No one is allowed to do anything to them. No treatment, nothing....use the balls right out of the bax. No game balls or kicker balls......just straight from the factory balls. See who cries loudest.......

 

[Broncosballer32]

You're incorrect. The NFL is making the big deal out of this. If the NFL gives in, it puts Goodell's authority under the CBA into question. The only reason that the owners are not pulling out is because they want Goodell to maintain the authority to penalize players. It's a very simple employer/employee issue.

The major problem is that the NFL got off track and they haven't been able to put the train back on course. If they had stayed with Article 46 of the CBA and nothing else, Judge Richard Berman would have thrown the case out. They didn't. They cited the Wells Report which was outside the CBA and they opened the door for Berman to question everything.

As far as deflating or changing the ball, every quarterback does something to the ball. Peyton Manning soaks them, has the surface roughed up and his procedure takes three to four days to get it where he likes it. His brother totally changes the ball through a three week process. While the NFL is putting policies and procedures in place to maintain all balls at 13 PSI, what will that do to Aaron Rodgers' performance? He likes his balls between 15-16 PSI. He certainly can't pump them up anymore or someone will blow the whistle. If the NFL is so concerned about the balls, why doesn't the league have the balls delivered to the stadium one hour before all games? No one is allowed to do anything to them. No treatment, nothing....use the balls right out of the bax. No game balls or kicker balls......just straight from the factory balls. See who cries loudest.......

Just keep telling yourself that. We all know he did it. No one thinks it is a big deal. All Brady has to do is own up to his responsibility and he is not doing it.

The Patriots are the ones acting arrogant about all this. Really was not hard to just admit culpability. The whole....losing weight thing? Come on.

That is a direct insult to the whole process. The reason his cell phone was destroyed? Give us a break.

Like I said. No big deal. I do not really care all that much.

Brady, like most people who are drunk and addicted to adulation and idol worship is very insecure about his legacy. Hell, that happens with so many famous people. Brady is not immune. Hence, the reason he is not budging. He, is very concerned how this will make him look. He, like Alex Rodriguez and others like him, imo are getting and following advice from attorneys.

It has turned into a farce and yes I do blame Brady and the Pats. They have this we against the world thing as though they are totally innocent. You, through your very biased lens, see it their way. He could have and the Pats could have nipped this in the bud a long time ago and they take on this disposition. It is insulting to the league and that is the main reason the other owners are feeling insulted.

 

[cdumler7]

If this has gone on for a long time, why were none of the fumbled or intercepted balls ever questioned by the players who caught/recovered them?

I've asked this several times and my question has never garnered any response at all. Sure, the refs handle the balls but they don't squeeze them like the players do.

So, anyone care to take a stab at it?

Well my stab at it would be that the Patriots for the most part do this more so when the weather turns bad to help with grip for all players. Because the Patriots fumble/throw interceptions fewer than most teams this means less actually deflated footballs are touched throughout an entire season. Throw in a defensive player probably doesn't know the feel of the ball quite like that of those that handle it every play. Maybe throw in this game they deflated some of the balls a little more than usual making it a little more noticeable which is why the Colts player decided to bring it over to the trainer. I would also say the fact that the Colts had already been warned about the footballs from the Ravens probably put them on a heightened alert about the footballs.

 

[BigKen]

Just keep telling yourself that. We all know he did it. No one thinks it is a big deal. All Brady has to do is own up to his responsibility and he is not doing it.

It has turned into a farce and yes I do blame Brady and the Pats. They have this we against the world thing as though they are totally innocent. You, through your very biased lens, see it their way. He could have and the Pats could have nipped this in the bud a long time ago and they take on this disposition. It is insulting to the league and that is the main reason the other owners are feeling insulted.

It's very obvious that you hate Brady and the Patriots. You can believe whatever you wish...........as we Patriots have asked continuously throughout the past seven months.............show us the evidence or proof that Brady did anything.

The NFL attorneys can't, Ted Wells admitted he couldn't...........Show us your proof that Brady did anything. Not your theories, suppositions, guesses, ........ factual, hard evidence....real proof. If you have it, you need to call the NFL offices in New York and give to them because they admitted before Judge Richard Berman, they have """NONE""".

 

[cdumler7]

It's very obvious that you hate Brady and the Patriots. You can believe whatever you wish...........as we Patriots have asked continuously throughout the past seven months.............show us the evidence or proof that Brady did anything.

The NFL attorneys can't, Ted Wells admitted he couldn't...........Show us your proof that Brady did anything. Not your theories, suppositions, guesses, ........ factual, hard evidence....real proof. If you have it, you need to call the NFL offices in New York and give to them because they admitted before Judge Richard Berman, they have """NONE""".

To me the biggest evidence is Brady himself. Every ex-QB that has spoke on the situation has said that they could tell even in the inclement weather when a ball was even a half PSI light or heavy. So the fact all of these balls were so low and yet Brady didn't seem to think he knew anything about them should be evidence enough that he either prefers them at that level of being below the legal limit or he just flat out lied to us as the public that he didn't know the balls were low and that anything was wrong.

Throw in every QB that is great in this league or has been great in this league has also said that they are very anal about how the balls are prepared. There is no way you can say those other two guys would act on their own without Brady's knowledge of the situation. They would both have to know that they would get fired if Brady figured out they were messing with the balls without his permission.

These are two very common sense arguments. You can argue all you want that this is not fact or hard evidence but to me that is plenty to convict the guy of cheating and especially then lying to the NFL and to us the public.

 

[Broncosballer32]

It's very obvious that you hate Brady and the Patriots. You can believe whatever you wish...........as we Patriots have asked continuously throughout the past seven months.............show us the evidence or proof that Brady did anything.

The NFL attorneys can't, Ted Wells admitted he couldn't...........Show us your proof that Brady did anything. Not your theories, suppositions, guesses, ........ factual, hard evidence....real proof. If you have it, you need to call the NFL offices in New York and give to them because they admitted before Judge Richard Berman, they have """NONE""".

So, you believe in the whole losing weight thing eh? Yeah, you do. The reason why they do not "have proof" is because Brady has not cooperated.

Trust me. No one cares that he did do it. You, are the only fans in the world that believe he actually did not do it.

This is not a criminal procedure and we are in court. This is not a proof beyond reasonable doubt. That is another situation.

He did it. We know he did it. Your denial or the childish nanny nanny boo boo that there is no proof so tough will not work.

Now, stick with the old....there is NO PROOF thing. It is not necessary. Also, it is very much a factor that the reason they have NO PROOF is because a lack of cooperation highlighted by the destruction of his phone.....on the very day he was to turn it over.

All Brady had to do was admit culpability and he didn't. He won't. You, Big Ken are sounding like a defense attorney. This, is NOT a criminal court and even if it was, circumstantial evidence more often than not is what convicts. This is not a Perry Mason situation where nice shiney proof will just appear. We all have brains with independent thinking power and we can all connect the dots.

Now, please have fun in your denial. Keep thinking that we care that he did it. No one does.

 

[WalkerBoh]

Of course there's little "real proof". Brady and Belichick aren't THAT stupid. But I have no doubt there was something going on, and probably for a while. Again, it's another rule the Pats bent until they broke it. It's what they do.