HurricaneDij's Annual Top 50 NBA Players List (Year 13)

[CitySushi]

I commented I did not think Green deserved to be on his list. I explained why. You disagree? Cool. These lists would be boring if we all agreed.

If you read what I wrote, I said he wouldn’t be a top 100 based on this years play. Didn’t disagree at all but feel like you’re just baiting me to draw me into yet another discussion about Draymond. We fundamentally disagree on his game, which is fine, I’m just not inclined to argue my position again.

 

[Heatles84]

Ask yourself this question:

What does Bam bring to the table that Vuc and Sabonis don't? Defense...Maybe??? The answer is not much, if anything at all. And those other two guys can spread the floor a little. I think there's a little extra hype on Bam because he is in Miami.

My #38 ranking on him is fine and fair.

Or maybe because he made the the all-star team, and the two players you mentioned didn't?

 

[dtgold88]

That's fair, sure
Draymond is a pretty unique player. It's correct, he is all variance. On a bad team he is useless. On a good one he is more important than his numbers. He was arguably the most important Warrior before KD got there. Not the best, but most important.

So on lists like this he won't show up too high. But you'd rather have him on the right kind of team than many of the guys who do make the list. Which is why Draymond is better than Love and many others with better numbers.....but only on a good team

Maybe...though Love did have an impact on a pretty good team the one year he played in the Finals pre KD (they didn't get quite as far the year before without him).

would add for lists like this I would not only rank a guy based on what he can do surrounded by elite players, superstars and/or stars. But that's me.

FYI...no issue Love is not there at this point in his career.

 

[dtgold88]

If you read what I wrote, I said he wouldn’t be a top 100 based on this years play. Didn’t disagree at all but feel like you’re just baiting me to draw me into yet another discussion about Draymond. We fundamentally disagree on his game, which is fine, I’m just not inclined to argue my position again.

Not trying to bait you at all. Really, you don't even seem like the type who can be baited. Just gave my opinion. No more, no less.

 

[msgkings322]

Maybe...though Love did have an impact on a pretty good team the one year he played in the Finals pre KD (they didn't get quite as far the year before without him).

would add for lists like this I would not only rank a guy based on what he can do surrounded by elite players, superstars and/or stars. But that's me.

FYI...no issue Love is not there at this point in his career.

Not just you. I said the same thing about a player like Draymond on these kinds of lists. Love might make the list, but to win things Draymond is better

 

[dtgold88]

Not just you. I said the same thing about a player like Draymond on these kinds of lists. Love might make the list, but to win things Draymond is better

I mean, sure, as long as his already great team adds an elite talent.

And, no, I am not saying Green doesn't matter on that team. He played a huge role. Just curious....do you think they still win with no Green but everyone healthy (in the years they had Durant)?

 

[tlance]

I mean, sure, as long as his already great team adds an elite talent.

And, no, I am not saying Green doesn't matter on that team. He played a huge role. Just curious....do you think they still win with no Green but everyone healthy (in the years they had Durant)?

2017, yes. Probably.

2018, almost definitely no. They don’t get past the Rockets without Draymond. And they probably don’t even make the Finals without Dray in ‘15 or ‘16, so maybe they don’t ever get KD.

 

[dtgold88]

2017, yes. Probably.

2018, almost definitely no. They don’t get past the Rockets without Draymond. And they probably don’t even make the Finals without Dray in ‘15 or ‘16, so maybe they don’t ever get KD.

I'd say yes to both 2017 and 2018.

2015? Agree might not get there without him. But Cavs as they were with no Love/Kyrie they'd have won without Green IMO. Not sure about 2016 (making it or not), but they lost with him.

 

[msgkings322]

I mean, sure, as long as his already great team adds an elite talent.

And, no, I am not saying Green doesn't matter on that team. He played a huge role. Just curious....do you think they still win with no Green but everyone healthy (in the years they had Durant)?

Great question. Honestly can't say. Probably but not sure.

 

[tlance]

I'd say yes to both 2017 and 2018.

2015? Agree might not get there without him. But Cavs as they were with no Love/Kyrie they'd have won without Green IMO. Not sure about 2016 (making it or not), but they lost with him.

The Rockets took the Warriors to 7 games in 2018.

The main reason a was because when Iggy went down, they no longer had the death lineup and had to play Looney and Bell more than they wanted to.

If Draymond Green was not on the Warriors in 2018, there is almost no chance they would have been able to survive the Iggy injury. They just didn’t have the depth.

Now, if Iggy was healthy for the whole series? Maybe. But he wasn’t. They had Iggy for 3 games and they lost 1 of those. Highly unlikely they would have beat the Rockets with their best 5 looking like this:

Curry
Klay
KD
Livingston
Looney

and almost nothing coming off the bench.

 

[dtgold88]

The Rockets took the Warriors to 7 games in 2018.

The main reason a was because when Iggy went down, they no longer had the death lineup and had to play Looney and Bell more than they wanted to.

If Draymond Green was not on the Warriors in 2018, there is almost no chance they would have been able to survive the Iggy injury. They just didn’t have the depth.

Now, if Iggy was healthy for the whole series? Maybe. But he wasn’t. They had Iggy for 3 games and they lost 1 of those. Highly unlikely they would have beat the Rockets with their best 5 looking like this:

Curry
Klay
KD
Livingston
Looney

and almost nothing coming off the bench.

k

 

[dtgold88]

Not just you. I said the same thing about a player like Draymond on these kinds of lists. Love might make the list, but to win things Draymond is better

would add it kind of depends what you need. Sure if you already have shooters and elite players like Curry, thompson and Durant maybe a guy like Green matters more. If you need size and shooting/rebounding from a big Love might be your guy......talking about these guys in their primes.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Ask yourself this question:

What does Bam bring to the table that Vuc and Sabonis don't? Defense...Maybe??? The answer is not much, if anything at all. And those other two guys can spread the floor a little. I think there's a little extra hype on Bam because he is in Miami.

My #38 ranking on him is fine and fair.

and thats the thing. I think this is a very good point. The number of guys that are just not that different from eachother that play that position are immense.

Just think of all the good power forward/center types- i wouldnt expend big capitol on any of them since there are just so many.

On the Cavs alone you have 4 guys- Love, Nance, TT and Drummond who are all very good and none are that much better or that much worse than Bam.

In the East alone- listed at PF or C- you have Gordon Hayward, Jarret Allen, Julius Randle, Bobby Portis, Tobias Harris, Al Horford, Serge Ibaka, Pascal Siakam, Marc Gasol, Embiid, Simmons, Markenen, Thad Young, Blake Griffin, Myles Turner, Domantas Sabonis, Lopez twins, John Collins, Clint Capela, Vucevic, Aaron Gordon, (geez the suck-ass Wizards dont even have one guy id put on this list!).

look at all thos guys. Besides the obvious elite players like Siakam and Embiid etc....are any of those players really head and shoulders above the others?

its just not worth it to expend capitol when there are so many big men on the same tier of talent. It pushes their value down. Guards and wings are just so much more valuable right now. In a league where Andre Drummond and can be had for a song, and Marc Gasol gets traded for minimal draft picks, and Al Horford is let go by his own team, and Blake Griffin is dealt as salary cap flotasam, etc. etc. etc......a big man who is good but not great is just not that valuable. Bam is a fine player- but i woudlnt rank him above a lot of different wings and guards since he is so eminently replaceable

@tlance

 

[tlance]

and thats the thing. I think this is a very good point. The number of guys that are just not that different from eachother that play that position are immense.

Just think of all the good power forward/center types- i wouldnt expend big capitol on any of them since there are just so many.

On the Cavs alone you have 4 guys- Love, Nance, TT and Drummond who are all very good and none are that much better or that much worse than Bam.

In the East alone- listed at PF or C- you have Gordon Hayward, Jarret Allen, Julius Randle, Bobby Portis, Tobias Harris, Al Horford, Serge Ibaka, Pascal Siakam, Marc Gasol, Embiid, Simmons, Markenen, Thad Young, Blake Griffin, Myles Turner, Domantas Sabonis, Lopez twins, John Collins, Clint Capela, Vucevic, Aaron Gordon, (geez the suck-ass Wizards dont even have one guy id put on this list!).

look at all thos guys. Besides the obvious elite players like Siakam and Embiid etc....are any of those players really head and shoulders above the others?

its just not worth it to expend capitol when there are so many big men on the same tier of talent. It pushes their value down. Guards and wings are just so much more valuable right now. In a league where Andre Drummond and can be had for a song, and Marc Gasol gets traded for minimal draft picks, and Al Horford is let go by his own team, and Blake Griffin is dealt as salary cap flotasam, etc. etc. etc......a big man who is good but not great is just not that valuable. Bam is a fine player- but i woudlnt rank him above a lot of different wings and guards since he is so eminently replaceable

@tlance

LOL.

The game is definitely trending towards perimeter play and guards/wings.

But you are way off here, so glad to see nothing has changed.

The most valuable players in the NBA are two way wings (Kawhi, LeBron, Giannis, KD) and guards with elite offensive skill sets (Curry, Harden).

Big men who are either unable to effectively guard both the perimeter and the rim OR big men who lack offensive skill are a dime a dozen. I would even add that because of the way the game is played today, for a big man the ability to be a versatile defender is MORE important than offensive production. Which is why guys like TT have value. You know this, and you even argue this point when it fits your narrative.

Bam is an excellent modern big defender and he is an offensive threat too. He can handle the ball and pass. He is very good playing out of the high post, and he isn’t the type of player who demands high touch volume. Which is yet another plus in a guard dominated world. The jumper has a ways to go, but my bet is that he will develop that in time also.

In other words, Bam is pretty close to the prototype for what you want a big man to be in today’s NBA. You were extremely wrong about him and it is time for you to own it.

 

[WiggyRuss]

just real quick

1. Leonard
2. Giannis
3. LeBron
4. Harden
5. Durant
6. Embiid
7. Davis
8. Doncic
9. Curry
10. Lillard
11. Towns
12. Jokic
13. Irving
14. RW
15. George
16. Tatum
17. Mitchell
18. Beal
19. Klay
20. Siakam
21. Simmons
22. Oladipo
23. Gobert
24. Butler
25. Kemba
26. Zion
27. Lowry
28. Paul
29. Booker
30. Young
31. Middleton
32. Ingram
33. McCollum
34. Morant
35. Brown
36. Fox
37. Murray
38. Russell
39. Holiday
40. SGA
41. Brogdon
42. Ayton
43. Vuc
44. Conley
45. SGA
46. Collins
47. Horford
48. LaVine
49. Gordon
50. LeVert

best of rest: Horford, Harris, Otto Porter Jr., JJJ, Love, Griffin, Wiggins, Smart, Hayward, Dinwiddie, Allen, Richardson, Markenen, Sabonis, Turner, Capela, Wall, Rubio, Porzingis, Bam, Drummond, Bogdon, DeRozan, Hield, Randle, Gallo,

 

[WiggyRuss]

LOL.

The game is definitely trending towards perimeter play and guards/wings.

But you are way off here, so glad to see nothing has changed.

The most valuable players in the NBA are two way wings (Kawhi, LeBron, Giannis, KD) and guards with elite offensive skill sets (Curry, Harden).

Big men who are either unable to effectively guard both the perimeter and the rim OR big men who lack offensive skill are a dime a dozen. I would even add that because of the way the game is played today, for a big man the ability to be a versatile defender is MORE important than offensive production. Which is why guys like TT have value. You know this, and you even argue this point when it fits your narrative.

Bam is an excellent modern big defender and he is an offensive threat too. He can handle the ball and pass. He is very good playing out of the high post, and he isn’t the type of player who demands high touch volume. Which is yet another plus in a guard dominated world. The jumper has a ways to go, but my bet is that he will develop that in time also.

In other words, Bam is pretty close to the prototype for what you want a big man to be in today’s NBA. You were extremely wrong about him and it is time for you to own it.

you can replace him with 30+ guys that will roughly give you the same thing.

much much rather have a wing that can play both ways or a guard that can create and shoot.

 

[CitySushi]

just real quick

1. Leonard
2. Giannis
3. LeBron
4. Harden
5. Durant
6. Embiid
7. Davis
8. Doncic
9. Curry
10. Lillard
11. Towns
12. Jokic
13. Irving
14. RW
15. George
16. Tatum
17. Mitchell
18. Beal
19. Klay
20. Siakam
21. Simmons
22. Oladipo
23. Gobert
24. Butler
25. Kemba
26. Zion
27. Lowry
28. Paul
29. Booker
30. Young
31. Middleton
32. Ingram
33. McCollum
34. Morant
35. Brown
36. Fox
37. Murray
38. Russell
39. Holiday
40. SGA
41. Brogdon
42. Ayton
43. Vuc
44. Conley
45. SGA
46. Collins
47. Horford
48. LaVine
49. Gordon
50. LeVert

best of rest: Horford, Harris, Otto Porter Jr., JJJ, Love, Griffin, Wiggins, Smart, Hayward, Dinwiddie, Allen, Richardson, Markenen, Sabonis, Turner, Capela, Wall, Rubio, Porzingis, Bam, Drummond, Bogdon, DeRozan, Hield, Randle, Gallo,

Didn't figure you for a Harden over Curry guy, much less Embiid over Curry. Fox too high. No way Conley is on a top 50 list anymore. Eric Gordon at 49? Caris Levert? Yikes.

 

[msgkings322]

Didn't figure you for a Harden over Curry guy, much less Embiid over Curry. Fox too high. No way Conley is on a top 50 list anymore. Eric Gordon at 49? Caris Levert? Yikes.

Towns at 11? LOLOLOLOL

Kyrie too high, definitely below Tatum for example

 

[WiggyRuss]

Didn't figure you for a Harden over Curry guy, much less Embiid over Curry. Fox too high. No way Conley is on a top 50 list anymore. Eric Gordon at 49? Caris Levert? Yikes.

Aaron Gordon.

And if Curry was healthy id have him over Embiid. Missing a full year and still being top 10 is pretty good.

HArden and Curry is a great debate. Sitting where we are right now that could def. go either way.

Fox is electric.

you prob have a point on Conley.

also- as i said- i ran through that real quick

 

[WiggyRuss]

Towns at 11? LOLOLOLOL

Kyrie too high, definitely below Tatum for example

Irving is way more talented than Tatum. If Kyrie was healthy and had his head on straight he could be one of the truly dominant players in the league. His talent blows tatum away

tatum is a better defender, healthier, a better teammate- but Tatum simply cannot take over a playoff game in the way Kyrie Irving can at his best. Few can. I still give Kyrie's talent the benefit of the doubt- but it is getting tougher and tougher to do so.