How much should Texas A&M charge the Seahawks so they can renew the ability to use the 12th man

[SteveDallas]

It's gonna be a long summer.

 

[TxHeat]

Proof positive that there are way to many fucking lawyers in this country. I broke a shoe string this morning causing me to rap my nuckles on the coffee table. Think that should be worth a couple grand.

You should spill some coffee on yourself and go for the big bucks.

 

[flyerhawk]

As for a side note, no one tied to A&M has said the price will go up. The idiot talking heads in the media who are looking for both a story and a shot at SEA, are the only ones talking about a fee increase.

Personally I would be surprised to see A&M try and gouge the Seahawks because it would be really bad PR for them. The Seahawks using the term doesn't impact the school in any meaningful way. If they tried to gouge the Seahawks they Seahawks would tell the media who would portray is as A&M trying to punish Seahawk fans.

They charge the Seahawks a fee to verify that they own and protect the copyright.

 

[jakedog56]

Why would we care about going to court? We legally own something and have the documents now to prove that Seattle agrees with that. A&M doesn't have to license it for a tiny freaking amount of money...but you keep banging that "we are the victim here" drum. It suits your fanbase so well.

I don't know how I am playing the victim card. I really don't care about using the 12th man. Makes no difference to me.

Just don't try to convince me that it is about TA&M protecting their legacy. They only care about getting some money for it. That is my only point.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

As long as the Seahawk organization doesn't market the name "12th Man" Texas A&M wouldn't have a case to sue. Seattle could still put the number 12 on everything and fans could still scream and yell "12th Man!!" and it wouldn't infringe on anything. Even if the sports announcers referenced Seattle's fans as the 12th man it couldn't be pinned on the Seahawk organization. At this point everyone knows who the 12th man is so as long as the Seahawks organization isn't marketing that exact phrase they can continue to the 12th man for free forever.

 

[UK Cowboy]

NFL teams spend more than the Aggies are asking for on toilet paper. Write the check, it's no big deal

 

[PatsFan2003]

Nope. Not at all. I don't care that they have to pay for the copyright. I just don't see how a term like "12th man" or "3-peat" can reasonably be owned by someone.

It's like Kleenex

 

[flyerhawk]

It's like Kleenex

Kleenex is a brand name. 12th man isn't a brand name. 3peat isn't a brand name.

It's just a phrase.

 

[BoBlake]

So what? The entire reason Seattle pays for the rights to it is so they can make money off of it as well.

A few years ago the high school I went to was sued by Florida State because the high school was using their logo and name "The Seminoles", the latter not being an issue for them. Florida State walked away with a bunch of money from a district in a downward spiral and were required to replace athletic logos. That isn't exactly the outcome that benefits society the most but they protected their intangible property.

Here's a link.

IMO the Seahawks aren't being excessively charged for the whole ordeal and they make millions off of that relatively small expense. It economically benefits both A&M and Seattle so I don't really see the sour grapes aspect of it you do.

I don't think Seattle is currently make millions off "12th Man". I just browsed the team shop website and couldn't find the phrase anywhere.

Not leasing the name "12th Man" anymore wouldn't cost the Seahawks any money, nor would they have to change any of their traditions either. They can still sell the 12 jerseys. The can still raise the 12 flag. They can still refer to their fanbase as 12s.

Let the lease go, if for no other reason than to shut up this whole A&M crap that only makes trolls and lawyers happy.

 

[night]

I don't think Seattle is currently make millions off "12th Man". I just browsed the team shop website and couldn't find the phrase anywhere.

Not leasing the name "12th Man" anymore wouldn't cost the Seahawks any money, nor would they have to change any of their traditions either. They can still sell the 12 jerseys. The can still raise the 12 flag. They can still refer to their fanbase as 12s.

Let the lease go, if for no other reason than to shut up this whole A&M crap that only makes trolls and lawyers happy.

Legally using it on broadcasts, commercials, advertisements, having a giant flag in the stadium etc. all draw consumers to buy flags, FatHeads, shirts, jerseys, etc. with a 12 on it otherwise the consumer would be indifferent about it. Would their top selling jersey still be the number 12 without that exposure? Probably not. $5k isn't that much when you look at how popular it has become recently and I'll bet it has helped them make more money than it cost them.

 

[BoBlake]

Legally using it on broadcasts, commercials, advertisements, having a giant flag in the stadium etc. all draw consumers to buy flags, FatHeads, shirts, jerseys, etc. with a 12 on it otherwise the consumer would be indifferent about it. Would their top selling jersey still be the number 12 without that exposure? Probably not. $5k isn't that much when you look at how popular it has become recently and I'll bet it has helped them make more money than it cost them.

LOL...A&M didn't trademark the number 12.

Seattle can let the phrase "12th Man" go continue to sell "flags, FatHeads, shirts, jerseys, etc" without any recourse, legal or otherwise, from A&M.

I personally can't wait to NEVER hear anything about Texas A&M again.


And Wilson and Sherman are their top selling jerseys. "12" is #3.

 

[night]

LOL...A&M didn't trademark the number 12.

Seattle can let the phrase "12th Man" go continue to sell "flags, FatHeads, shirts, jerseys, etc."


And Wilson and Sherman are their top selling jerseys. "12" is #3.

Yes, I know, but fewer people would buy things with a 12 on them without Seattle having the rights to the phrase "the 12th man" in the first place where it can be widely used. Yes, Seattle can continue to sell 12 merchandise if they wanted to it would just likely not have the desirability it once had. They're keeping a good thing going, there isn't an issue here.

 

[Lance Armstrong]

Aggies will up the price, they're upset that everybody in america knows Seattle as the 12th man now that they're good.

 

[fordman84]

Personally I would be surprised to see A&M try and gouge the Seahawks because it would be really bad PR for them. The Seahawks using the term doesn't impact the school in any meaningful way. If they tried to gouge the Seahawks they Seahawks would tell the media who would portray is as A&M trying to punish Seahawk fans.

They charge the Seahawks a fee to verify that they own and protect the copyright.

Odd that you say that in a thread where your fellow fans are spouting off about how the 12th man isn't A&M, but SEA. Sounds like quite a bit of harm to the actual owners, dontcha think?

 

[fordman84]

I don't know how I am playing the victim card. I really don't care about using the 12th man. Makes no difference to me.

Just don't try to convince me that it is about TA&M protecting their legacy. They only care about getting some money for it. That is my only point.

Why do I need to convince you of that? The letter of the law should be all the convincing you need. If you have a trademark and you don't sue to stop people infringing on it, then you lose it. It is cut and dry.

 

[flyerhawk]

Odd that you say that in a thread where your fellow fans are spouting off about how the 12th man isn't A&M, but SEA. Sounds like quite a bit of harm to the actual owners, dontcha think?

The Seattle Seahawks and Texas A&M are not competition with each other. To Seahawks fan living in Tacoma, they probably don't give a lot of thought to the Aggies and I doubt folks in College Station much care about the Seahawks.

 

[fordman84]

The Seattle Seahawks and Texas A&M are not competition with each other. To Seahawks fan living in Tacoma, they probably don't give a lot of thought to the Aggies and I doubt folks in College Station much care about the Seahawks.

Understood, but there are people who are both NFL and NCAAFB fans. When you hear some people, even here, say that A&M has no claim to something that they actually have the full legal claim to...it makes your statement that there is no harm to be done seem odd to me.

I believe A&M added in their agreement that Seattle couldn't sell 12th Man gear outside of Washington and a few bordering states. This is just another reason why.

 

[packerzrule]

Never did understand why someone would fork out that kind of coin to honor "himself"

 

[LambeauLegs]

I don't think Seattle is currently make millions off "12th Man". I just browsed the team shop website and couldn't find the phrase anywhere.

Not leasing the name "12th Man" anymore wouldn't cost the Seahawks any money, nor would they have to change any of their traditions either. They can still sell the 12 jerseys. The can still raise the 12 flag. They can still refer to their fanbase as 12s.

Let the lease go, if for no other reason than to shut up this whole A&M crap that only makes trolls and lawyers happy.

How much does a team make in Jersey sales as a percent of the sales price of each Jersey sold?

I really have no clue but the article said that "The 12 Jersey" ranked 15th or so in all NFL jerey sales. This means many Seattle fans are spending money on Jerseys and are able to do so because of the agreement with Texas A&M.

I have no idea how many Jerseys need to be sold to rank 15th in the NFL but maybe a way to get an agreement done with Texas A&M would be to give Texas A&M a percent of all the Jersey sales like 5 or10% or whatever could be agreed upon. Right now the billionaire owner is able to pocket profits from the sale of the 12th Man jersey and not reimburse the institute that gave him the ability to do so fairly.

 

[WizardHawk]

Sorry Wiz, but this is total bullshit. Unless you also have an issue with your team trademarking the seahawk logo or the name "Seahawks", then you just sound like sour grapes. Your team didn't invent a picture of a seahawk, nor did they invent the word "seahawk". You have no issues with that, but you do with A&M for trademarking 12th man.

A&M sued to protect their trademark. They are charging for it because they can.

Dead wrong. 12th man wasn't invented by TAMU was it? You know it, I know it, the world knows it. That 'term' was used before your school's first record of it as far back as the single digit 1900's by Minnesota and a few years later by Iowa State I believe.

So TAMU didn't create or even become the first to use it to describe it's fans impact on games. That's a major problem for your case.

Comparing teams usage of their names vs the trademarking of a common word is ludicrous. The term 12th man is used in Soccer world wide (mainly Europe) because Soccer also has 11 players on the pitch at once. There are 6th man and other variations used in other sports.

Your comparison would only be valid if Seattle was trying to call themselves the Aggies. I dare you to find any other sports team that was using Seahawks before Seattle did. And since they came into the league there were high schools that ended up using it and I'm sure still do. You don't see them bullying them into paying for it.

You keep saying that, but don't appear to have any issues with any of the NFL trademarks your team holds.

Give me an example of a trademark Seattle took out on a generic term they didn't invent and try to bully people that were using it long before that trademark and I'd be happy to disavow it. Good luck on that though. Doubt you will have any luck.

And there is no difference in the way that Seattle wants to use it and the way that A&M does. We have a tradition of using it, and we trademarked it. In this thread you yourself have talked about the tradition of using this since the #12 was retired.

The meaning of the 12th man for the aggies and the Seahawks are quite different. The traditions behind it are night and day different. The traditions in the stands are entirely different. Both lump those as what it means to be a 12th man. Hell, I don't know anyone up here that calls themselves a 12th man, we are simply a 12 or the 12's. PERIOD. Trademark "home of the 12th man" as a phrase. No problem with that. It means something special and is a phrase that has been used for a long time. But taking just '12th man' when it is a generic term that has been used by many teams across many sports since long before your team ever used it is fucking crazy.

If you don't like that you have to pay to use something that someone else owns, that's fine. But stop trying to make it sound like everyone else is at fault.

I don't care about the payment part. I said that's of no consequence. It's the principle of the thing. It is about it not being a trademark worthy term IMO. It's about the stupidity of the rest of the terms like not being able to sell their merchandise in other areas of the country. In fact they aren't allowed to sell anything with 12th man actually on it. I believe the agreement only allowed them to use it within the stadium.

Funny though, they interviewed a group of TAMU grads that are also Seahawk fans that meet in a local bar for games up here and none of them agree with you.