How about selling

[banditshcky11]

ya i hear you. and like i said, nothing against orielly, or the value on the picks back for him. i think that's a smart acquisition, and an even balance. but i dont think it addresses the flyers 2 biggest needs. Number 1 being rebuilding the defense. Number 2, IMO, is restocking the cupboard with guys that come on in ELCs.

i'm for trying to move some of the older guys with bigger contracts to, i just don't think they're very movable. i think in order to get rid of vinny you'd take a significantly lesser quality than you already have in vinny, and i think if you try to move streit, you're moving a draft pick with him just to get rid of him. his contract is nasty. it's way too long and it's a 35+ contract. someone is going to have a cap penalty when he retires. the flyers will have to give up value to unload him.

the above, combined with the lack of potential ELCs in the system, is why i dont like getting rid of 1-2-3 picks next year. when in 2 years the flyers cap looks like:

Giroux - 8.275
Hartnell - 4.75
Lecav - 4.5
Streit - 5.25
Mason - 4.1
Read - 3.625
Simmonds - 3.975 (ho lee fuk btw, what an amazing deal that's going to be, runs through 2018-19)

and assuming they both continue to improve

Couturier - 5.5ish? (RFA in 2016)
Schenn - 5.5ish? (RFA this year)

you're already spending 45 mil on 9 players. of those 9 you probably have your top 6 (hartnell.g.vinny / schenn.couturier.simmonds), 1 part of your 3rd line, 1 dman, and a starting goalie. so say the cap does balloon over the next two years to 80mil. So you have 35 million to spend on 6 dmen, 6 forwards, and a backup goalie.

keeping in mind that you need an entire top 4 defense out of that, some average payrolls for good top 4s in the NHL

Boston: 15.76
Chicago: 18 mil
LA:15.26
Nashville:18.8 (bumped seth jones to 4.5 mil as a conservative estimate for his next contract)
Anaheim:14.67

so you're looking at around 16.5 mil for a quality top 4. So you have 18 mil to spend on your 66% of your 3rd line, 100% of your 4th line, your bottom pair, and a backup goalie. so 2.25 mil per player. which may be enough, but this is all without ROR. if you add his theoreticaly 6.5 in there, your down to 11.5 to spend on 4 forwards, 2 dmen, and a backup goalie. 1.65 mil per player. which isn't enough if you want to be competitive, unless those dmen and some of those forwards are on ELCs. keep in mind this is all without voracek if you like him.

i'm not comfortable expecting 2/3 of hagg, morin, and ghost to progress to bottom pair dmen in the next 2 years. laughton i expect will fill one of those holes on an ELC, but there isn't another forward in the system i see coming in.

i dno, maybe you can make it work, but i just dont like the idea of giving up those draft picks. the flyers, 5 years later, are still hurtin from giving up all the future value they did in the pronger deal.





also, can anyone tell i've got a little time on my hands at work today?

I hear what you're saying AWAZ, I just think we're looking at building a team from 2 different ways is all. To me signing anyone over 28 is a horrible idea if it's more then 2 years due to the fact that that's around the time when the collectively wear and tear of an NHL career seems to really set in. I think my big thing if I was a GM would be looking for those guys who can be game changers and help pace your team and then making every possible attempt to bring them in. I however woudl not be handing out NTC's like they're water bottles though. I always hated that Pronger trade we gave up a ton to get an aging player who we knew we were going to have to pay out the ass to retain.

I think we can easily fill the 6/7 role either from within or with a bargain guy. We also eventually have to see if Gus can actually play for any length of time and we have Laurdisen (sp?) who showed some ability last year and would bring some more grit to our line up. I guess I also am not one to really value picks past the first round because they're usually a crap shoot and the Flyers have drafted more C's and tough guys in the last 10 years then any other 5 teams combined, so it's not exactly like we're building through the draft. We have mostly gotten younger and better through trades specifically the Richards and Carter trades. I don't see us being able to get a legit #1 D man without giving up a boat load, so my response is to instead sign younger guys coming off ELC's that have shown potential and if we have the chance to draft D men to do it. You all have to remember that the Flyers are against drafting D-men in the first round most years. For example 2 years ago we could have drafted Maata over Laughton, a position we needed vs one we're stacked at. No one knew how those 2 players would turn out though so I'm not sure if the Flyers drafting philosophy will change, well ever....

As far as having our top 6 goes, I really think that Hartnell is a player that we could get a decent return on and because he's a physical and aging player I would move him if possible. Also I refuse to believe that we need to have guys with ELC's on our roster to stay cap compliant. We finally seem to have a legit #1 goalie who's signed, we have (or will have shortly) most of our young core locked up for years to come and their cap hits will continue to be a lower % of the cap moving forward. Plus there will always be guy dying for 4th line spots and we can fill 3rd line roles from within on their second contracts.

The defense is the bigger issue, I agree and that's a complicated problem to solve. We currently have Coburn, L Schenn, Grossman, Streit all under contract. Mez should be resigned. Then like I said there are guys like Niskanen and Nikitin who could be targeted. If we can't move anyone then realistically we're set for the next 2-3 years on D anyway which gives the guys we currently have in the system plenty of time to develop. Then all we need is a back up G which we should not have a hard time filling.

I just don't see the cap being as big a problem going forward as some people do as long as you're not offering huge money to every guy who comes along and giving them an NTC to boot.

 

[awaz]

I just think you're underestimating the difficulty at which you get rid of, and subsequently replace, guys like Hartnell, streit, and Grossmann. Their trade value isn't incredibly high, their contracts aren't great, and after you make a less than equal value trade to move a contract you don't like, you have to turn around and sign a free agent to a contract you still won't like. Because that's what free agency is. Overpayment, and water bottle shaped NTCs. It's just how it's been. If you want someone impactful in free agency, you have to pay out the nose and give them a NTC. Because if you don't, someone else will, and the player will sign there. Not to mention most difference makers don't hit free agency, for that exact reason.

And since that is the case, you have to build through the draft and have guys on elc's that can still make a difference.

The flyers got a ridiculous return for Carter and Richards, otherwise they would be bottom of the barrel right now. Getting schenn, Simmonds, voracek and coots, all of whom are (or at least were) inexpensive difference makers, saved the team from multiple years of suckage.

 

[JBM73]

Sorry guys, worked has me swamped so I don't have time to contribute much to the discussion.

HockeyBuzz.com - Bill Meltzer - Meltzer's Musings: Staying Focused at Trade Deadline

 

[4thstreet]

Doing nothing is the right play.

Being a fan from their inception-yea,I'm old,I've seen worse Flyers' team overacheive,and better Flyers' teams underacheive.

I think the nucleus of this team is a couple of years away from being solid contenders.The problem with the Flyers' has always been patience.If they don't see immediate results on guys in the first few years,trades are made.IMO,I don't see a big move at this years trade deadline,but Homer will definitely try to tweak what he can,to improve the team.