How about selling

[banditshcky11]

yep. sad thing is, that's what some people *cough grossmann* *cough schenn* are in the lineup to do.. very frustrating.

I didn't think Schenn played as badly as it looked last night. He was trying to cover for Gus getting utterly dominated on the physical side of things. However like anything else when you try to do someone else job yours usually suffers.

 

[awaz]

I didn't think Schenn played as badly as it looked last night. He was trying to cover for Gus getting utterly dominated on the physical side of things. However like anything else when you try to do someone else job yours usually suffers.

good point. just another example of how hard it is to succeed in the NHL with a bunch of 1 dimensional dmen.

 

[Cobiemonster]

The lines will sort itself out when guys start getting more time together hopefully - the defense is the main concern and they have to start playing tougher in front of the net, and the forwards need to do better defensively as well - good defense leads to offense and the forwards are part of the problem too - especially when you have guys wide open, nobody near them, that's an issue - the defensemen need to be better but the forwards slack defensively sometimes as well

 

[flyersfan4706]

I'm late to this thread, but I sort of agree. Trim the fat, anyway. Get something for Kimmo, Mez, maybe Grossmann, and Downie (Although apparently he looked good last night? I missed the game) and if we make the playoffs then fine, we get to enjoy that.

I stand by my idea that we are still a few years away from getting to the top, and that is mainly waiting for the defensive rebuild.

 

[flyersfan4706]

Don't know where to post this, but NYR signs Girardi 6 years 5.5mil. That's actually a solid cap hit, he could've gotten a bit more in FA.

I would have liked him, but I'm glad it's a big contract we don't have to deal with now

 

[Cobiemonster]

I'm late to this thread, but I sort of agree. Trim the fat, anyway. Get something for Kimmo, Mez, maybe Grossmann, and Downie (Although apparently he looked good last night? I missed the game) and if we make the playoffs then fine, we get to enjoy that.

I stand by my idea that we are still a few years away from getting to the top, and that is mainly waiting for the defensive rebuild.

I don't care what anyone thinks, making the playoffs is better than not making the playoffs - I don't want to see this team miss the playoffs again - if they're going to sell, especially being in a playoff spot right now, they better be buying right now, otherwise, don't do anything and just let this team play

 

[flyersfan4706]

I don't care what anyone thinks, making the playoffs is better than not making the playoffs - I don't want to see this team miss the playoffs again - if they're going to sell, especially being in a playoff spot right now, they better be buying right now, otherwise, don't do anything and just let this team play

I need the playoffs at this point. One year without it has been too much

 

[banditshcky11]

I don't care what anyone thinks, making the playoffs is better than not making the playoffs - I don't want to see this team miss the playoffs again - if they're going to sell, especially being in a playoff spot right now, they better be buying right now, otherwise, don't do anything and just let this team play

Yea this is true. I just don't want to see them going into hardcore buyer mode and competing with the whole league for the handful of available players that can help us, I'd rather see them do a little selling or I guess more so make real hockey trades then desperation trades.

 

[awaz]

Doing nothing is the right play.

 

[Maverick426h]

Doing nothing is the right play.

I agree with this. We just beat the hottest team in the Nhl since December 22nd and then the Caps had won four straight including a 4-2 defeat of the Bruins in Boston before we stormed from behind to beat them on their ice. These wins also happened to be against our main two rivals in the standings right now. I'm really thinking that we have the horsepower as is to make the playoffs and then excel from there as our depth and physicality at forward and defense will serve us well in the postseason. Plus, I definitely believe that Mason is capable of stealing playoff games for us if necessary.

 

[lasgop8]

I agree with this. We just beat the hottest team in the Nhl since December 22nd and then the Caps had won four straight including a 4-2 defeat of the Bruins in Boston before we stormed from behind to beat them on their ice. These wins also happened to be against our main two rivals in the standings right now. I'm really thinking that we have the horsepower as is to make the playoffs and then excel from there as our depth and physicality at forward and defense will serve us well in the postseason. Plus, I definitely believe that Mason is capable of stealing playoff games for us if necessary.

We may not be pretty all the time but we do get results.

 

[banditshcky11]

There are still hockey trades to be made. I'd love to see the Flyers in on Edler, Erhoff or Gardiner as long as the asking price isn't ridiculous, I'm sure it is though. It is entirely possible that we'd be better off to make trades at the draft though. The big thing is WE DON'T NEED AGING RENTALS NOW!!!

The thing is there are D-men to target in the off season who may be a good fit on the Flyers if they make it to the open market specifically, Matt Niskanen and Nikita Nikitin (sp?), we could probably gt them both at resonable hits and they both have nice up side and some offensive ability but primarily they make good first passes which is what Beurbe wants most out of his D. Also I've decided that I'd loveto see the Flyers offer sheet Ryan O'Reilly at $6.5m for 7 years, they guy can play W and C and still be very effective at both plus he hits and bring a lot of "compete" every night.

 

[EVille3]

There are still hockey trades to be made. I'd love to see the Flyers in on Edler, Erhoff or Gardiner as long as the asking price isn't ridiculous, I'm sure it is though. It is entirely possible that we'd be better off to make trades at the draft though. The big thing is WE DON'T NEED AGING RENTALS NOW!!!

The thing is there are D-men to target in the off season who may be a good fit on the Flyers if they make it to the open market specifically, Matt Niskanen and Nikita Nikitin (sp?), we could probably gt them both at resonable hits and they both have nice up side and some offensive ability but primarily they make good first passes which is what Beurbe wants most out of his D. Also I've decided that I'd loveto see the Flyers offer sheet Ryan O'Reilly at $6.5m for 7 years, they guy can play W and C and still be very effective at both plus he hits and bring a lot of "compete" every night.

I don't see them offering that kind of contract for another forward...unless someone is gets moved.

 

[awaz]

There are still hockey trades to be made. I'd love to see the Flyers in on Edler, Erhoff or Gardiner as long as the asking price isn't ridiculous, I'm sure it is though. It is entirely possible that we'd be better off to make trades at the draft though. The big thing is WE DON'T NEED AGING RENTALS NOW!!!

The thing is there are D-men to target in the off season who may be a good fit on the Flyers if they make it to the open market specifically, Matt Niskanen and Nikita Nikitin (sp?), we could probably gt them both at resonable hits and they both have nice up side and some offensive ability but primarily they make good first passes which is what Beurbe wants most out of his D. Also I've decided that I'd loveto see the Flyers offer sheet Ryan O'Reilly at $6.5m for 7 years, they guy can play W and C and still be very effective at both plus he hits and bring a lot of "compete" every night.

part 1: agree 100%

part 2: niskanen and nikitin i'd be good with. don't like the idea of offer sheeting oreilly. the flyers are reaping what they've sown dumping draft picks left and right. they're 2-3 years away from being able to say they rebuilt the defense because of this and the fact that top notch dmen are almost impossible to trade for because they're so expensive. at 6.5 mil the compensation is a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, which, value-wise i'm ok with, but the flyers need draft picks. they NEED young players that are ready to step up and play in the NHL. right now they're ok because schenn and couturier are on bridge contracts, but when they get monster deals in the coming years, the flyers won't be able to afford a competitive roster without ELCs on it. the only guys that could make an impact at the NHL level at some point are laughton, ghost, morin, and hagg. and it's just a prayer that all 4 of them hit, there's a very real chance only 1 or 2 of them hit.

 

[banditshcky11]

I don't see them offering that kind of contract for another forward...unless someone is gets moved.

We have $17m in cap after Pronger's ltir and O'Reilly is worth that IMO at least (well he could be if he played top 6 minute on the left with Giroux & Voracek or B Schenn & Simmer). He's the type of player the Flyers always want but are rarely ever available, that's why the offer sheeted Kesler years ago. Plus that's the kind of money it would take to get him via an offer sheet and not some sort of huge trade. You may be right, they may not want to offer that kind of money to a player but $6.5m in cap will be more and more reasonable until the cap artificially tops out and the guy is only 23 so it'd be worth spending on him instead of an aging D-man which is what I fear they're going to do to themselves during FA.

 

[EVille3]

part 1: agree 100%

part 2: niskanen and nikitin i'd be good with. don't like the idea of offer sheeting oreilly. the flyers are reaping what they've sown dumping draft picks left and right. they're 2-3 years away from being able to say they rebuilt the defense because of this and the fact that top notch dmen are almost impossible to trade for because they're so expensive. at 6.5 mil the compensation is a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, which, value-wise i'm ok with, but the flyers need draft picks. they NEED young players that are ready to step up and play in the NHL. right now they're ok because schenn and couturier are on bridge contracts, but when they get monster deals in the coming years, the flyers won't be able to afford a competitive roster without ELCs on it. the only guys that could make an impact at the NHL level at some point are laughton, ghost, morin, and hagg. and it's just a prayer that all 4 of them hit, there's a very real chance only 1 or 2 of them hit.

this was more to my point. I was just too lazy to type it out.

 

[awaz]

this was more to my point. I was just too lazy to type it out.

 

[banditshcky11]

part 1: agree 100%

part 2: niskanen and nikitin i'd be good with. don't like the idea of offer sheeting oreilly. the flyers are reaping what they've sown dumping draft picks left and right. they're 2-3 years away from being able to say they rebuilt the defense because of this and the fact that top notch dmen are almost impossible to trade for because they're so expensive. at 6.5 mil the compensation is a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, which, value-wise i'm ok with, but the flyers need draft picks. they NEED young players that are ready to step up and play in the NHL. right now they're ok because schenn and couturier are on bridge contracts, but when they get monster deals in the coming years, the flyers won't be able to afford a competitive roster without ELCs on it. the only guys that could make an impact at the NHL level at some point are laughton, ghost, morin, and hagg. and it's just a prayer that all 4 of them hit, there's a very real chance only 1 or 2 of them hit.

If we target guy like Niskanen and Nikitin though to play our back end wouldn't that open up the option of sheeting a guy like O'Reilly who's only 23 almost a pt per game player now and brings all the intangibles we & the Flyers brass love? Yea I get that giving up 3 picks next year kind of blows but we have some youth in the system still Laughton, Cousins, Ghost, Morin, Hagg not to mention what I'd call bargain players in Raffl, McGinn & Gus if we keep him for a few years. You all have to remember too that the cap will keep growing and we have key pieces of the machine already signed to very cap friendly long term deals. This is why I'm so for trying to move some of our older guys with big contracts (Vinny, Streit, maybe Grossman) to free up space to aggressively pursue younger players who fit the style that Berube wants to play.

 

[Cobiemonster]

If we target guy like Niskanen and Nikitin though to play our back end wouldn't that open up the option of sheeting a guy like O'Reilly who's only 23 almost a pt per game player now and brings all the intangibles we & the Flyers brass love? Yea I get that giving up 3 picks next year kind of blows but we have some youth in the system still Laughton, Cousins, Ghost, Morin, Hagg not to mention what I'd call bargain players in Raffl, McGinn & Gus if we keep him for a few years. You all have to remember too that the cap will keep growing and we have key pieces of the machine already signed to very cap friendly long term deals. This is why I'm so for trying to move some of our older guys with big contracts (Vinny, Streit, maybe Grossman) to free up space to aggressively pursue younger players who fit the style that Berube wants to play.

I love ROR but it's not worth giving up so many draft picks - and we have a lot of depth at center so it shouldn't be an issue - and you can't assume the cap keeps going up because then if it doesn't, you're in a bad spot - I think a guy like Matt Niskanen would be a nice addition to the blueline next year and that will help replace Kimmo and possibly Mesz if he doesn't come back - and you don't want to lock up too many guys on the blueline because it could block some of the younger kids like Ghost, Sam Morin, etc

It's going to be difficult to trade those guys with big contracts - you can't just give them away either - a guy like Mark Streit I wouldn't give away because he's valuable to the PP and he's been much better lately

 

[awaz]

If we target guy like Niskanen and Nikitin though to play our back end wouldn't that open up the option of sheeting a guy like O'Reilly who's only 23 almost a pt per game player now and brings all the intangibles we & the Flyers brass love? Yea I get that giving up 3 picks next year kind of blows but we have some youth in the system still Laughton, Cousins, Ghost, Morin, Hagg not to mention what I'd call bargain players in Raffl, McGinn & Gus if we keep him for a few years. You all have to remember too that the cap will keep growing and we have key pieces of the machine already signed to very cap friendly long term deals. This is why I'm so for trying to move some of our older guys with big contracts (Vinny, Streit, maybe Grossman) to free up space to aggressively pursue younger players who fit the style that Berube wants to play.

ya i hear you. and like i said, nothing against orielly, or the value on the picks back for him. i think that's a smart acquisition, and an even balance. but i dont think it addresses the flyers 2 biggest needs. Number 1 being rebuilding the defense. Number 2, IMO, is restocking the cupboard with guys that come on in ELCs.

i'm for trying to move some of the older guys with bigger contracts to, i just don't think they're very movable. i think in order to get rid of vinny you'd take a significantly lesser quality than you already have in vinny, and i think if you try to move streit, you're moving a draft pick with him just to get rid of him. his contract is nasty. it's way too long and it's a 35+ contract. someone is going to have a cap penalty when he retires. the flyers will have to give up value to unload him.

the above, combined with the lack of potential ELCs in the system, is why i dont like getting rid of 1-2-3 picks next year. when in 2 years the flyers cap looks like:

Giroux - 8.275
Hartnell - 4.75
Lecav - 4.5
Streit - 5.25
Mason - 4.1
Read - 3.625
Simmonds - 3.975 (ho lee fuk btw, what an amazing deal that's going to be, runs through 2018-19)

and assuming they both continue to improve

Couturier - 5.5ish? (RFA in 2016)
Schenn - 5.5ish? (RFA this year)

you're already spending 45 mil on 9 players. of those 9 you probably have your top 6 (hartnell.g.vinny / schenn.couturier.simmonds), 1 part of your 3rd line, 1 dman, and a starting goalie. so say the cap does balloon over the next two years to 80mil. So you have 35 million to spend on 6 dmen, 6 forwards, and a backup goalie.

keeping in mind that you need an entire top 4 defense out of that, some average payrolls for good top 4s in the NHL

Boston: 15.76
Chicago: 18 mil
LA:15.26
Nashville:18.8 (bumped seth jones to 4.5 mil as a conservative estimate for his next contract)
Anaheim:14.67

so you're looking at around 16.5 mil for a quality top 4. So you have 18 mil to spend on your 66% of your 3rd line, 100% of your 4th line, your bottom pair, and a backup goalie. so 2.25 mil per player. which may be enough, but this is all without ROR. if you add his theoreticaly 6.5 in there, your down to 11.5 to spend on 4 forwards, 2 dmen, and a backup goalie. 1.65 mil per player. which isn't enough if you want to be competitive, unless those dmen and some of those forwards are on ELCs. keep in mind this is all without voracek if you like him.

i'm not comfortable expecting 2/3 of hagg, morin, and ghost to progress to bottom pair dmen in the next 2 years. laughton i expect will fill one of those holes on an ELC, but there isn't another forward in the system i see coming in.

i dno, maybe you can make it work, but i just dont like the idea of giving up those draft picks. the flyers, 5 years later, are still hurtin from giving up all the future value they did in the pronger deal.





also, can anyone tell i've got a little time on my hands at work today?