Hoke needs to GO!

[Agent Orange]

One paragraph that just is asinine!

“If they’re truly fans, they’ll believe in these kids and the hard work they’ve put in,” he said during his weekly news conference at the Crisler Center. “If they’re not, they won’t.”

No real fans want to see a competitive team and vent when they see shit being paraded out on the field and called a good program! If we did not care about the program we would not give a shit that Notre Dame ran prison sex on every UofM player on that field!

It is clear to me Hoke was not ready to take the reigns at a major BCS school. He needed to stay at SDSU or go to a bigger mid major not turn UofM into a mid major!

Hoke just signed his proverbial Death Warrant with that statement. He talks about the hard work the kids put in. Well judging by the way they play against equal to near equally talented teams it isn't much. And that falls on Hoke the Joke.

How about this Hoke:

If you truly loved Michigan as much as you claimed to, then you would resign immediately.

If you don't resign, then you clearly don't love Michigan.This program has been down since 2007, but he wants the fans to spend their hard earned money on an inferior product? I hope Utah, Rutgers, and Penn State light him up in the coming weeks forcing Brandon's hand.

I'm actively rooting for this fool to fail now.

 

[Agent Orange]

One could say he has, his name is Shane Morris. He looked pretty good with took last year, including starting the BWW Bowl, well as good as a true freshman could look with that O-line.

Which should not be overlooked, not necessarily defending Gardner here, but it is hard for any QB to due well when the O-line provides no protection.

Shane Morris is clearly not the answer. If he were Devin would be a wideout. I trust Nussmeier with that much unless you think Mr. Flintstone is hamstringing him.Morris didn't look goodl last year, besides players regress here in Bed Rock so that's irrelevant.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Wilton Speight become the starter next year.

Edit: Also we will have no running game if Derrick "First Contact" Green continues to get the lion's share. Not that our Funky O-line blocks anyway.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Shane Morris is clearly not the answer. If he were Devin would be a wideout. I trust Nussmeier with that much unless you think Mr. Flintstone is hamstringing him.Morris didn't look goodl last year, besides players regress here in Bed Rock so that's irrelevant.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Wilton Speight become the starter next year.

Edit: Also we will have no running game if Derrick "First Contact" Green continues to get the lion's share. Not that our Funky O-line blocks anyway.

This is what I was getting at...Been watching this dude with a defensive end's number take snaps for what seems like forever. If they have a better option, then why is Gardner still out there? And if they don't have a better option, Hoke needs to burn up some gasoline looking for one.

There have GOT to be some decent arms in the Midwest who grew up dreaming of playing for the Wolverines. Likewise some O-linemen. Michigan has always struck me as a place where you really don't have to recruit that hard.

 

[BucksFanInGA]

This is what I was getting at...Been watching this dude with a defensive end's number take snaps for what seems like forever. If they have a better option, then why is Gardner still out there? And if they don't have a better option, Hoke needs to burn up some gasoline looking for one.

There have GOT to be some decent arms in the Midwest who grew up dreaming of playing for the Wolverines. Likewise some O-linemen. Michigan has always struck me as a place where you really don't have to recruit that hard.

It isn't... The problem is Hoke appears not to be able to develop elite talent... It seems that no matter how good a player is when they came in to play for Hoke, they rarely get better like you'd expect to see with any competent coach...

Either that or all the scouts are wrong..

Michigan doesn't recruit as well as Bama or Texas, but I'd imagine they have several four stars lined up at every position (as opposed to five stars backing up five stars).

The product they've put on the field these last couple years hasn't looked it...

 

[Agent Orange]

It isn't... The problem is Hoke appears not to be able to develop elite talent... It seems that no matter how good a player is when they came in to play for Hoke, they rarely get better like you'd expect to see with any competent coach...

Either that or all the scouts are wrong..

Michigan doesn't recruit as well as Bama or Texas, but I'd imagine they have several four stars lined up at every position (as opposed to five stars backing up five stars).

The product they've put on the field these last couple years hasn't looked it...

I'm not agreeing with you because you're a buckeye, but everything in this post is correct.

 

[Agent Orange]

This is what I was getting at...Been watching this dude with a defensive end's number take snaps for what seems like forever. If they have a better option, then why is Gardner still out there? And if they don't have a better option, Hoke needs to burn up some gasoline looking for one.

There have GOT to be some decent arms in the Midwest who grew up dreaming of playing for the Wolverines. Likewise some O-linemen. Michigan has always struck me as a place where you really don't have to recruit that hard.

BucksFan is right on the money with his post. It doesn't matter who you get if you can't develop talent or they seem to regress under your management. That's Hoke's biggest problem. The funniest thing about Hoke is the fact that he's a line coach and those are our weakest areas on both sides of the ball. If you can't succeed as a position coach, how can you hope to succeed as a head coach?

 

[4down20]

I can't imagine he sticks around for next year.

 

[The Authority]

I get that last game was bad, really bad. Ain't no way to candy coat that. But if he was way in over his head, how come they had such a great game against Ohio State last year? Or against South Carolina the year before? Of the 41 games Michigan has played with him as the head coach, I can count the number of times they got dominated on one hand. Given they there were (and still somewhat it) transition mode, that's not bad.

I know, this isn't what we expect of Michigan, and Michigan fans haven't been here since the 1960's. But every program goes through rough patches.

You are practically the only Michigan fan left that actually think Hoke has done a good job.

If "almost winning games" is what you are holding on to then I don't know what to tell you.

That would never cut it for me.

 

[olympicoscar]

It's all copy and paste you old retard.

At least you are honest you overstuffed Cajun.

 

[olympicoscar]

I think your meltdown after Ole Miss last year was one of my favorite threads on here...

Tiger Bait does not meltdown. His body becomes thermally challenged.

 

[nddulac]

Tiger Bait does not meltdown.

It's just a phase he is going through.

 

[RegentDenali]

Mich needs to move on from the "has to be a Michigan man" requirement. Too much at stake these days to limit your choices to guys who went to the school or grew up in the area. The top candidates will understand the added dynamic of the tOSU rivalry and get you back to being one of the top dogs in the conf.

Les Miles isn't leaving LSU.
Jim Harbaugh brings too much mental issues.
Rich Rod was simply the wrong guy for the job when you got desperate. Don't use that as an excuse to go back to Mich man only homerism.

Look at what UCLA got with Jim Mora. Go with a proven NFL guy or upcoming college coach.

 

[4down20]

Mich needs to move on from the "has to be a Michigan man" requirement.

They are waiting for Tom Brady to bring them to the glory years.

It's about the only winning "Michigan Man" left.

 

[Agent Orange]

I know, the "youth and inexperince" excuse is getting old, but seriously, they have a true freshman starting at left tackle for the first time in the history of Michigan! And only 9 seniors, only 4 of which were returning starters. How can you not say that youth isn't a problem any coach would face given those conditions?

I get that last game was bad, really bad. Ain't no way to candy coat that. But if he was way in over his head, how come they had such a great game against Ohio State last year? Or against South Carolina the year before? Of the 41 games Michigan has played with him as the head coach, I can count the number of times they got dominated on one hand. Given they there were (and still somewhat it) transition mode, that's not bad.

I know, this isn't what we expect of Michigan, and Michigan fans haven't been here since the 1960's. But every program goes through rough patches.

Un-freaking-believable hanging your hat on loses! Have we really been that bad? I expect that type of talk from UNLV football fans, but Michigan!? The fact that you're clinging to loses speaks volumes, and it's disgusting.

If it takes Bobby Hauck 4-5 year to turn a doormat like UNLV into a competitive team that's a good job (he hasn't)

If it takes Steve Sarkisian 5 years to correct Ty Willingham's abortion, that's pretty good.

But if it takes 4-5 years for Brady Hoke to turn Michigan, the all-time winningest program and an undisputed blueblood that recruits itself into... a poorly coached 8 win team? That's poor freaking form.

Yeah, yeah Rich-Rod hurt the program and took it to all-time lows. They still weren't as bad as Willingham's Washington teams and somehow Sarkisian was able to produce an identical record despite the fact that UDub has less resources than Michigan and plays in a superior conference.

 

[Agent Orange]

Mich needs to move on from the "has to be a Michigan man" requirement. Too much at stake these days to limit your choices to guys who went to the school or grew up in the area.

The real problem is what Bo Schembechler said is being bastardized. He wasn't saying anything remotely similar to this. Here's an article with the context:

'Michigan Man' is too often a misused term | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

All he was saying is that a Michigan team will be coached by a person who is loyal to Michigan. That was all. The fact some of his former players (Brandon) and staff (Carr) are misusing it is ridiculous, since they actually knew the man.

Maybe Michigan is getting the program we deserve?

 

[4down20]

The real problem is what Bo Schembechler said is being bastardized. He wasn't saying anything remotely similar to this. Here's an article with the context:

'Michigan Man' is too often a misused term | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

All he was saying is that a Michigan team will be coached by a person who is loyal to Michigan. That was all. The fact some of his former players (Brandon) and staff (Carr) are misusing it is ridiculous, since they actually knew the man.

Maybe Michigan is getting the program we deserve?

People did that shit at Alabama with the Bear and needing ties to Bear.

So glad that bs is over. Yet I fear one day it may be reborn with Saban.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

Since no one seems to what to comment on this from the Michigan board:

As some of you know, I've been a Hoke supporter these past couple of years. And honesty part of that is a backlash against those that do things like the "H/Joke" thing (come on folks, we are Michigan fans, we are better than resorting to ad hominem!) but also because I hate this notion of instant gratification. There is a reason most college HC contracts are 5+ years, because it does take time.

But I will admit, last weekend did shake that support to the core. And should the season start a death spiral, I will be right with you looking for change. But let's at least hold off until then. Because one, making a change now is a surefire way to kill any chance of this team having a quality season. Which two, remember the start of the 2007 season? Not only did Michigan have the embarassment of the App. St. game, there was a similar beat-down by Oregon (in the Big House no less). Yet, that turned out to be a pretty good season, and if not for some key injuries down the stretch could have been great. So one never knows how the season will play out, until it does.

So as have mentioned before, let's consider the case of Bill McCartney at Colorado. He had three terrible seasons, four medicore, but then the program took off, won a national title, became a dominate power, and McCartney is now in the Hall of Fame. Not say I am predicting Hoke will do the same, but given your crystal ball is just as good as mine, you cannot say for certain that won't happen.

Because yes, there are some troubling signs, but there is some postives as well. Do we just forget that Hoke did go 11-2 and won the Sugar Bowl? Do we just forget that even still in transition mode, for the most part these past couple of years they've been competitive in nearly all their games, including some heavy hitters (like Ohio St.)?

Bobby Bowden once said "First you lose big, then you lose close, then you win close before you win big. The problem is, you don't know exactly how long each step is going to take."


I get it, this isn't something Michigan fans have had to deal with in a long time. But every program, every program, goes through stuff like this from time to time. So let's not lose our heads.




But in addition, let me add a couple of things to address some points made:
People mentioned Hoke's "inability" to develop elite talent, but what they are forget said talent is still at most RS sophomores/juniors! Shouldn't he have a chance to do the thing you are criticizing him of not doing? It's like criticizing someone for being a bad driver, before they've even started the car.
As for Garnder, first it was Denard should be moved to receiver and Gardner QB and now Gardner to receiver and Morris to QB..... For crying out loud, the kid has had two HCs, three OCs, and has been moved from QB to WR back to QB. Not to mention that O-line. It was Gardner's legs that saved some plays last year, something Morris does not have.
And the reason for bringing up the loses, because if as stated Hoke was "in over his head," wouldn't more of them be like last Notre Dame game? Not all loses are the same, there are plenty that if one or two things go differently we aren't having this conversation.


So forgive me for trying to maintain some perspective. I swear, over on the political board people job over the idea of "kids these days not wanting to work" and "instant gratification." At worst, we have one or two more years of mediocre results on the field with excellent recruiting. Harbaugh isn't going anywhere, nor is Les Miles (if that's what you want). And Michigan's ability to pull a big name coach isn't going to change if we give Hoke an honest attempt to full establish what he is trying to do. So let's stay calm, and GO BLUE!

 

[Agent Orange]

I'm going to address one point from your post GoBllueNavyNuke because quite frankly I find this excuse baffling.

You mention talent development, and I'll keep this simple. Look across the country at all the teams that are suppose to be Michigan's peers with regards to prestige, alleged recruit talent, resources, etc. How many of them have RS Sophomores and Juniors contributing in meaningful capacities? How many RS Sophomores and especially Juniors get labeled potential first round picks?

If you have guys who are in their 3rd year in a program and they aren't ready to compete, either they don't belong on the roster in the first place or maybe the coaching staff can't develop talent. And if you can't understand that, then we have nothing to discuss.

 

[outofyourmind]

By the 4th year, you either can see it's going to work or you can't.
If, by the 4th year, you are using terms like 'player development takes time' and pointing out things that happened 'years ago' and using examples from programs that 'have never done anything',,,,,,


IT'S OVER.

 

[The Authority]

It would be nice if most of the Michigan faithful and decision makers had the complacency that GoBlueNavyNuke has because it would make it that much easier to beat them year after year.