HOF locks - Pedro & Randy

[Lemon Harang Pie]

Maybe i am wrong here, but since when has SLG not been a Power stat?? HR hitters have better SLG!!!

Since it's creation?

OPS+ is just an adjusted version of OPS which is just OBP + SLG.

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

not in a comparison between a power hitter and a non power hitter...

I like the stats, but of course Giancarlo stanton has a higher OPS than Jose Altuve....

Stanton had a .395 OBP. He could have hit 7 dingers too and still had the higher OPS.

Altuve doesn't hit home runs but he also doesn't draw any walks either.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Teams typically put older, banged up guys at 1B but there are plenty of great hitters who could probably have been perfectly adequate 2B.

Who do you have in mind?

 

[steveringo]

Who do you have in mind?

Mo Vaughn?

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

Who do you have in mind?

I didn't really have anyone in mind but Mike Napoli seems like a guy who fits the description. Victor Martinez splits time between 1B and DH but mostly for the same reasons.

 

[DragonfromTO]

I didn't really have anyone in mind but Mike Napoli seems like a guy who fits the description. Victor Martinez splits time between 1B and DH but mostly for the same reasons.

Wait, youre saying you think that Mike Napoli could play second base?

 

[steveringo]

I didn't really have anyone in mind but Mike Napoli seems like a guy who fits the description. Victor Martinez splits time between 1B and DH but mostly for the same reasons.

Wait, youre saying you think that Mike Napoli could play second base?

There's a miscommunication in here somewhere....

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

Wait, youre saying you think that Mike Napoli could play second base?

Of course not. I was just giving you examples of banged up guys moved to first.

That said, I don't think there's any real reason MLB teams can't put better hitters at 2B. Call it tradition but MLB just tends to do things because that's they way they've always done things. I think guys like Barry Bonds or Alex Rodriguez would have hit a ton of HRs while playing adequate 2B.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Of course not. I was just giving you examples of banged up guys moved to first.

That said, I don't think there's any real reason MLB teams can't put better hitters at 2B. Call it tradition but MLB just tends to do things because that's they way they've always done things. I think guys like Barry Bonds or Alex Rodriguez would have hit a ton of HRs while playing adequate 2B.

Doesn't the fact that you need to list two of the most talented players in MLB history as guys that could probably adequately play 2B say something about the difficulty of the position? I mean, many of the guys who player corner 1B or corner OF positions probably couldn't (think guys like Giambi, Ryan Howard Nelson Cruz, Manny, Adrian Gonzalez, Cabrera, off the top of my head). A player like Alfonso Soriano was a horrendous defensive 2B, then became an average defensive LFer when he switched.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Of course not. I was just giving you examples of banged up guys moved to first.

That said, I don't think there's any real reason MLB teams can't put better hitters at 2B. Call it tradition but MLB just tends to do things because that's they way they've always done things. I think guys like Barry Bonds or Alex Rodriguez would have hit a ton of HRs while playing adequate 2B.

You're either forgetting an important detail or you never realized it... Barry throws left handed.

And yes, Alex Rodriguez could have probably played adequate 2b. But if you move him off of shortstop (an offensively weaker position) to play him there, wouldn't that eliminate the offensive advantage you intend to get by moving him?

 

[DragonfromTO]

There's a miscommunication in here somewhere....

I figured out what it is. Here's what he wrote.

"Teams typically put older, banged up guys at 1B but there are plenty of great hitters who could probably have been perfectly adequate 2B."

When I asked if he had anyone in mind I was talking about the second part of the statement, whereas his Mike Napoli answer I believe was talking about the first part.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Forget that Kent was a second baseman for a second

Does Kent's offensive stats get him into the HOF?? Is he even on the fence??

 

[calsnowskier]

Forget that Kent was a second baseman for a second

Does Kent's offensive stats get him into the HOF?? Is he even on the fence??

Now THIS is a well-worded question...

I think that he is, AT LEAST, a border-line HOF player still. He has a MVP, top 10 MVP 4 times, 377 HR, 8 100-RBI seasons, career 123 OPS+, career .290 BA...

If he puts those numbers up as an OFer, I think he still gets a lot of discussion, if not enshrinement.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Now THIS is a well-worded question...

I think that he is, AT LEAST, a border-line HOF player still. He has a MVP, top 10 MVP 4 times, 377 HR, 8 100-RBI seasons, career 123 OPS+, career .290 BA...

If he puts those numbers up as an OFer, I think he still gets a lot of discussion, if not enshrinement.

That'd be pretty comparable to someone like Dale Murphy in the outfield, who falls well short.

 

[calsnowskier]

That'd be pretty comparable to someone like Dale Murphy in the outfield, who falls well short.

I am actually of the opinion that Murphy deserved more love...

 

[StanMarsh51]

I am actually of the opinion that Murphy deserved more love...

My problem with Murphy is he only had 6 years that were at least 'good.' A number of those good seasons were certainly great, but not great enough to overcome the lack of good years within his career imo.

 

[Mondo Jay]

I am actually of the opinion that Murphy deserved more love...

I agree. Admittedly, I grew up watching him play as a Braves fan. Back to back MVP's, he ranked second to Schmidt with 308 home runs in the 1980s, and was tied for second in RBIs (with 929) behind Eddie Murray when the RBI was held in greater esteem.

He really dropped off the cliff at the end of his career and that certainly hurt his HOF chances.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Now THIS is a well-worded question...

I think that he is, AT LEAST, a border-line HOF player still. He has a MVP, top 10 MVP 4 times, 377 HR, 8 100-RBI seasons, career 123 OPS+, career .290 BA...

If he puts those numbers up as an OFer, I think he still gets a lot of discussion, if not enshrinement.

Looking at Kents OFFENSIVE numbers only, he had 9 seasons of being good to great, the rest of his 17 seasons were injury plagued or just not good at all... He also averaged 135 games per season, which is pretty bad....


He is certainly on the fence, but i just don't know with him since i don't think he really played healthy enough of his career...

 

[calsnowskier]

He had 12 seasons with 20+ HRs.

He had 8 seasons with 100+ RBI.

He had 10 season with .850+ OPS.

He had 8 seasons with 120+ OPS+ (with 2 seasons at 119).


As a 1B, he would not even be discussion-worthy. As an OF, he is fringe at worst. As a 3B, I think he is a lower-end lock at worst. As a 2B, he is a lock.

 

[steveringo]

What does Jay Jaffe think about Kent? Has JAWS been brought up in this discussion?

Second Base JAWS Leaders | Baseball-Reference.com