here is alot of my reasoning right here

[KickSaveDave]

Cali.. in game three he took two no contact sacks instead of simply throwing the ball away.

I dont hate the kid really. But this all out defense and Robert can do no wrong or you arent really a Skins fan does make me wish even more we had never made the trade for him.

I think the only issue I have with your take is that no one is saying "he can do no wrong" as far as I can tell. Lots of people want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Lots of us know he has to improve his decision making and pocket awareness. Lots of us know he's not a finished product and that 2012 may have been an aberration. And lots of us also think the trade is looking really shaky at this point. But we also hold out hope that he's more like 2012 than 2013, which means we support him as our QB for now, and until proven conclusively wrong. Thats all a far cry from being a jock carrying fan boy. RGIII certainly does a lot wrong. We kinda all accept that, he has a LOT to improve on. But many of us also still think he has the potential to be great.

We'll know more in a few months.

 

[skinsdad62]

I think the only issue I have with your take is that no one is saying "he can do no wrong" as far as I can tell. Lots of people want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Lots of us know he has to improve his decision making and pocket awareness. Lots of us know he's not a finished product and that 2012 may have been an aberration. And lots of us also think the trade is looking really shaky at this point. But we also hold out hope that he's more like 2012 than 2013, which means we support him as our QB for now, and until proven conclusively wrong. Thats all a far cry from being a jock carrying fan boy. RGIII certainly does a lot wrong. We kinda all accept that, he has a LOT to improve on. But many of us also still think he has the potential to be great.

We'll know more in a few months.

KSD and DG dont assume shark isnt a fan . in the 10 years plus of debating thru several boards his fandom isnt in question . and as hard as we go at each other (you havent seen that yet ) i love the guy period

shark is a radical . there isnt a side of gray . i supported JC as a stop gap yet had to defend him forever as if he were a savior because there isnt any real middle ground

i freely admit RG3 isnt ready in this offense yet . he will struggle so our defense will have to step up a "take " some wins

shark wont give Rg3 any time to grow . yet when i suggest trading him well that isnt in the cards . he thinks all those picks means he should be HOF ready from game one injury or not

i dont know where he gets "RG3 can do no wrong " that seems like more rhetoric then truth the guy is going into year 3 . he should be improved but by how much i do not know . i do know this , i dont want to see him giving away easy 1st downs running (like rodgers did last nite ) just to become a "pocket passer "

ask any running qb 1000x if he wants to be a "pocket passer " and 1000 times he will answer yes back . ask mike vick that and he will tell you the same

last nite i saw the great russell wilson take a sack he didnt have too and he could have thrown the ball away but he took the sack
i have seen kaep do it ,

rodgers do it i seen him twice see the guy coming and he still could avoid it and still give up the fumble safety

yet Rg3 is a jackwagon because he screws it up too

he is a top 5 qb and he makes that mistake with "reading " the defense but packer nation isnt calling for his head nor is his personality a bastion of niceness either

it has gotten so moronic here about Rg3 that people want him to have throwing the ball into the stands practice and how his socks are divisive

how am i to react to that ? it isnt personal with him but it is ?

Rg3 needs time to develop in this offense and as a pocket passer . but lets be clear he isnt going to be a pure pocket passer and the sooner people let him be who he is the better

you dont ask hank aaron to be a singles hitter . you let him do what he does best and hit away

 

[KickSaveDave]

I don't assume anyone here isn't a hardcore fan, but there have been people on every side of every issue about every player since message boards first started, so this is pretty typical discussion really. No one will change their minds, but generally someone gets to pound their chest and do the proverbial "I told you so" eventually... and thats kinda all we ever really accomplish here.

But yet we still spend hours and hours doing it over and over again. Having the endless debate from two opposite ends of the same issue... ad nauseum, etc etc.

John Madden says it best. Winning is the greatest deodorant of all. It makes everything and everyone smell great. It makes people on every side of the argument hold hands and sing kum bay yah.

So every now and then I go back here to remember what it was like just a few months ago.

[YOUTUBE]BrK-3_YW-yE[/YOUTUBE]

 

[skinsdad62]

Robert Griffin III Sits Down With the Seth Davis Show (VIDEO) - HTTR4LIFE.com - HTTR4LIFE.com

here is RG3's response to all the BS last season . i may regret posting this but here it is

now hopefully i wont get the "i didnt watch the segment but here is what i think " replies

watch it and listen to it .

you can see the level of disdain he has for shanny in his attitude . i also see why he wanted to play , and not the CSI BS . and he addresses the CSI BS with limo's, snyder and film sessions

 

[gkekoa]

We also have something called Chris Chester as well as Tyler Polumbus and an average at best center starting on the OL. We also have an injury prone young TE with no real backup that scares anyone.

Let's not make this out to be the '91 Redskins just yet.

This is the same OL that led RG3 to being the savior his rookie season. It's not all the OL buddy.

It's also the same TE situation we had RG3's rookie season.

Who let The Voice Of Reason into the room?

Again I get the frustration with Griffin. Hell I wish he was better too and I get the concern. And this just in, the noise will only grow louder if he plays poorly.

But again people claiming that Kirk Cousins is the answer are just blinded by rage IMO. Calling our QB "Bob", a phrase coined by a Giants defender and a clear sign of disrespect, just shouldn't come out of a poster who calls himself a Redskins fan IMO.

Nobody is proclaiming KC is the answer...some would like to find out if RG3 continues to play poorly.

I do not disagree that our success/failure rests with the QB more than anyone else. But come on now, his post made is sound like this offense was completely loaded and any fool could QB it to 9 wins. That is simply not the case, we have very real problems on the OL. In fact we have only one starter that I would call good on that line and nobody is confusing Trent Williams with Jim Lachey. Would you disagree with that assessment?

Trent Williams is a beast. He is one of the best OTs in football, just like Lachey was.

I will say there are fifteen QBs in the NFL that could lead this team to 24PPG (which is a more fair way to state offensive production than victories).

I'm still waiting for the Cousins apologists to give valid reason as to why he deserves to be part of an open competition next year. Other than the fact that he is not RGIII that is.

Because RG3's play hasn't warranted a closed competition.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I think the only issue I have with your take is that no one is saying "he can do no wrong" as far as I can tell. Lots of people want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Lots of us know he has to improve his decision making and pocket awareness. Lots of us know he's not a finished product and that 2012 may have been an aberration. And lots of us also think the trade is looking really shaky at this point. But we also hold out hope that he's more like 2012 than 2013, which means we support him as our QB for now, and until proven conclusively wrong. Thats all a far cry from being a jock carrying fan boy. RGIII certainly does a lot wrong. We kinda all accept that, he has a LOT to improve on. But many of us also still think he has the potential to be great.

We'll know more in a few months.

I was just about to post the same thing about RGIII "can do no wrong". I'm his biggest defender and I"ve clearly stated that I get the concern. What I don't get is closing the book and proclaiming him a bust after 2 seasons, one that was historically great and the other where he was clearly injured. There is no logic to that what so ever.

But I disagree that we'll know more in a few months. Again I do not see this as a make or break year for a 24 year old QB who is learning a new system. And since nobody yet has come up with a viable Plan B other than give the other guy a shot regardless of what has taken place on the field with that guy I see no reason to cut bait if he struggles this year.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

This is the same OL that led RG3 to being the savior his rookie season. It's not all the OL buddy.

It's also the same TE situation we had RG3's rookie season.




Nobody is proclaiming KC is the answer...some would like to find out if RG3 continues to play poorly.




Trent Williams is a beast. He is one of the best OTs in football, just like Lachey was.

I will say there are fifteen QBs in the NFL that could lead this team to 24PPG (which is a more fair way to state offensive production than victories).




Because RG3's play hasn't warranted a closed competition.

RGIII's play in 2012 masked those deficiencies. That should not be held against him in 2014. But let's be clear here, those deficiencies are still very much there. This offense is improved but it still has holes.

 

[Sharkinva]

I was just about to post the same thing about RGIII "can do no wrong". I'm his biggest defender and I"ve clearly stated that I get the concern. What I don't get is closing the book and proclaiming him a bust after 2 seasons, one that was historically great and the other where he was clearly injured. There is no logic to that what so ever.

But I disagree that we'll know more in a few months. Again I do not see this as a make or break year for a 24 year old QB. That's just crazy talk.

Simply put, when you give up one draft pick for a player, you can say well give him a few years to develop.

When you drop three firsts and a second on a guy, the margin for give him time can NOT be 5-7 years. We gave up the draft picks to get a top CB, or top oline talent to bring this guy in. Basically saying he is good enough to make up for the talent we are pasing up on. So now you dont get to say we dont have the talent around him, because sure as shit Cousins could have gotten us 3-13 last year. SO I would honestly say he has this year and maybe next to start looking like a franchise QB, or we should be rethinking the plan. And if he looks in the regular season like he did last month, I think you have got to at least consider making it an open comp for the position. To not consider it is just throwing more time and resources after it out of stubbornness.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Simply put, when you give up one draft pick for a player, you can say well give him a few years to develop.

When you drop three firsts and a second on a guy, the margin for give him time can NOT be 5-7 years. We gave up the draft picks to get a top CB, or top oline talent to bring this guy in. Basically saying he is good enough to make up for the talent we are pasing up on. So now you dont get to say we dont have the talent around him, because sure as shit Cousins could have gotten us 3-13 last year. SO I would honestly say he has this year and maybe next to start looking like a franchise QB, or we should be rethinking the plan. And if he looks in the regular season like he did last month, I think you have got to at least consider making it an open comp for the position. To not consider it is just throwing more time and resources after it out of stubbornness.

Dang that was fast. I gotta run, salmon to cook,dogs to play with and a Friday night to enjoy.

I agree that when his deal is up in 2 years it's time to evaluate the situation. Again I do not agree that next off season is the time to open up the competition for the reasons I have already stated.

Gotta run, have a good night.

 

[Stymietee]

RGIII will not be the weakness link this season, he will be forced to run a lot more than many think and as a result learn to slide better. The weakest link will be on defense, where nearly every team in the league are teaching their QB's to get the ball out of their hands quickly, this will negate our dependence on the revamped pass rush and expose our corners and safeties. The saving grace will be improvements when covering TE's. I have no faith in D. Hall, and in time neither will you.

 

[Sharkinva]

RGIII's play in 2012 masked those deficiencies. That should not be held against him in 2014. But let's be clear here, those deficiencies are still very much there. This offense is improved but it still has holes.

Just throwing it out there. Suppose Kyle Shanahans offense was actually masking RG3s bad habits of holding onto the ball too long and indecisiveness?? I agree he was playing Injured for the first half of last year. But honestly without the threat of his legs, he looked rather average as a QB last year. And that would be fine.... if we had not given up what we did to get him. We paid for a Ferrari, and right now looks like we might have a 5.0 with a suspect wheel bearing.

 

[Kevin12773]

Just throwing it out there. Suppose Kyle Shanahans offense was actually masking RG3s bad habits of holding onto the ball too long and indecisiveness?? I agree he was playing Injured for the first half of last year. But honestly without the threat of his legs, he looked rather average as a QB last year. And that would be fine.... if we had not given up what we did to get him. We paid for a Ferrari, and right now looks like we might have a 5.0 with a suspect wheel bearing.

Nice analogy shark.... But I disagree with you that he was only injured half the year. With my eyes he wasn't close to 70% healthy at any point last year. Had he not been injured and played that way year 2 I'd be somewhat concerned but I'm giving him a pass on year 2 as a throw away and starting fresh year 3. And as for your R Wilson point he's a good QB no doubt but ANYONE would've done well on that team. Put Wilson on a team with a bottom 5 Defense and the worst special teams of all time he ain't winning 6 games. IMHO

 

[Sharkinva]

Nice analogy shark.... But I disagree with you that he was only injured half the year. With my eyes he wasn't close to 70% healthy at any point last year. Had he not been injured and played that way year 2 I'd be somewhat concerned but I'm giving him a pass on year 2 as a throw away and starting fresh year 3. And as for your R Wilson point he's a good QB no doubt but ANYONE would've done well on that team. Put Wilson on a team with a bottom 5 Defense and the worst special teams of all time he ain't winning 6 games. IMHO

Kev.. I agree Wilson would have done bad in DC last year. But I stick with the concept that Wilson has a couple of traits that RG3 lacks. The willingness to not be the center of attention, and the willingness to protect himself and the team by not taking needless hits or hanging onto the ball too long. It pains me to say he is a better QB over all at the moment than RG3. cause I fucking hate the hobbit.

But I will try to refrain from making people think I hate RG3..... But I will ask what do you think Wilson, Luck or even Tannehill could do with the talent on this roster??

Oh yea, and technically we didnt have a bottom five defense.

Side note, I think we will have a top ten or close to it defense this year. So it should be very interesting.

 

[Kevin12773]

I think Luck is a helluva QB and I put griffin, "the hobbit" lol I liked that, and tannehill below him. I know it's not easy playing the position but I'll be damned if it's not easier playing the position when you have a shut down D and you know you only need 17 points to win and they'll probably score 7 points for you and if you have 2 drives that produce points you probably win. Last season it seemed the skins were in a 14-0 hole every week thanks to Special teams play and their offense is built to play with a lead not play from 2 scores down. And I also have high hopes for a Defensive turnaround this year and would be ecstatic with a top 10 D.

 

[Sportster 72]

I'm still waiting for the Cousins apologists to give valid reason as to why he deserves to be part of an open competition next year. Other than the fact that he is not RGIII that is.

What the heck is a Cousins apologist, someone that questions whether Griffin is capable? What a turn of phrase that is. dad has been telling us for near a year that Cousins sucks because he has bad stats in three games but we need to give Griffin more time and we need to stop being haters.

First of all and there is ZERO arguing this, there has never been a competition for the QB job the last three years Griffin was announced the starter before they ever hit the field. If there was an open competition Cousins probably would have one during their first training camp and certainly this years based solely on what we have seen in training camp. We as fans have nothing else to go by. Once again Gruden has said since he got here that Griffin is the number one QB.

Now I am not advocating for Cousins to be the starter. I get it, the team has a lot invested in Griffin and they want to give him a chance. Gruden says he believes that Griffin has more of an upside. I won't argue that.

dad started this thread out by saying not enough people were behind Griffin then telling us we needed to be patient and stop being haters etc. etc. Then he detailed how Cousins was nothing more than a back up which he proved in three games at the end of the year. Don't get me wrong, I like dad, he has been a part of the forums since I have been involved. I even respect him for going to bat for his guys. Why people are trying to justify how good Griffin is by trashing Cousins mystifies me.

Here is what we know, Griffins first year he was better than we could imagine, year 2 was a big let down for many reasons. In two days he'll go on the field and we'll see what he has. Lets wait and see what happens, this has been played out on the forum since last year. The only place we are going to find who has what is on the field and there isn't a QB on the team that can stand on their laurels from last year.

 

[KickSaveDave]

Cousins played better than RGIII in the preseason. But in real games, everything about Cousins performance is significantly worse than RGIII's career performance. The real game stats are not close.

Preseason, yeah, Cousins has looked better, especially this year. But then Danny Wuerfell also looked great in preseason. So did John Beck for a few weeks.

 

[Sharkinva]

Cousins played better than RGIII in the preseason. But in real games, everything about Cousins performance is significantly worse than RGIII's career performance. The real game stats are not close.

Preseason, yeah, Cousins has looked better, especially this year. But then Danny Wuerfell also looked great in preseason. So did John Beck for a few weeks.

Griffin looked good in an offense tailored to his skill set. He looked average at best in a more traditional offense. I have never said that Cousins is the answer, but if you dont have questions as to if griffin can ever be more than an option QB based on what we have seen, then I would suggest getting the homer glasses cleaned.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

What the heck is a Cousins apologist, someone that questions whether Griffin is capable? What a turn of phrase that is. dad has been telling us for near a year that Cousins sucks because he has bad stats in three games but we need to give Griffin more time and we need to stop being haters.

First of all and there is ZERO arguing this, there has never been a competition for the QB job the last three years Griffin was announced the starter before they ever hit the field. If there was an open competition Cousins probably would have one during their first training camp and certainly this years based solely on what we have seen in training camp. We as fans have nothing else to go by. Once again Gruden has said since he got here that Griffin is the number one QB.

Now I am not advocating for Cousins to be the starter. I get it, the team has a lot invested in Griffin and they want to give him a chance. Gruden says he believes that Griffin has more of an upside. I won't argue that.

dad started this thread out by saying not enough people were behind Griffin then telling us we needed to be patient and stop being haters etc. etc. Then he detailed how Cousins was nothing more than a back up which he proved in three games at the end of the year. Don't get me wrong, I like dad, he has been a part of the forums since I have been involved. I even respect him for going to bat for his guys. Why people are trying to justify how good Griffin is by trashing Cousins mystifies me.

Here is what we know, Griffins first year he was better than we could imagine, year 2 was a big let down for many reasons. In two days he'll go on the field and we'll see what he has. Lets wait and see what happens, this has been played out on the forum since last year. The only place we are going to find who has what is on the field and there isn't a QB on the team that can stand on their laurels from last year.

I had no intentions of trashing Cousins. In fact I didn't want to get dragged into this at all. But when people kept posting stuff like "why not open the competition, if Griff is so much better as you claim he will win it easily". That forced my hand as I attempted to explain why Kirk Cousins has not earned an open competition. There should be no doubt that many Redskins fans at this point think Kirk Cousins is the better option. They base this opinion on a handful of good moments and preseason games while dismissing all the bad things he has done. That is nothing short of idiotic IMO and a complete double standard. We cherry pick the good moments from Cousins and dismiss the bad but do not do the same with Griffin

As for 2012 sure he ran an offense tailored to his skills. You guys realize that a ton of teams, including the champs, run that same offense right? He had all of 5 picks in that entire season. Why would things like that give me hope and a reason to stick with our investment rather than panic and suggest we open up the competition with a guy who has done nothing to deserve it? As you said Griffin clearly has more upside, you really want to cut him and have him be great for someone else for the next decade while we trot out the likes of Kirk Cousins?

Shark contends that the steep price means we need to cut bait quicker on Griff. I see it totally the opposite. Because the team made such a big investment it owes it to itself to let this thing play out completely before making a decision And that means more than the next 16 games.

 

[Sportster 72]

First I don't think there are a lot of people asking for Cousins to start. I think there are a lot of people that see Cousins has outperformed Griffin in the preseason games and are worried about Giffin's development. Remember this year it was the NE Patriots or someone on the Patriots that started the "Cousins is better" chant.

Secondly if you watched the game Thursday night and I only watched a half because I have to be up at 4:00am I thought (much like dad has suggested) that the Seahawks used Wilson in a manner that seems like it would be good to use Griffin in the same way. They used a lot of play action that looked like zone read then turned into a half roll with a run/pass option. Wilson read the CB and OLB and decided whether to run or pass. I think if the Redskins just ask Robert to stand in the pocket he is going to struggle. Maybe not as much if they run a bunch of plays with 3 and 5 step drops with routes like outs, hitches and slants that are 3-7 yards look. Of course it is then up to Robert to throw the ball on time and not hold it too long.

I have been around sports a long time and am not naive enough to realize that many times players are handed positions on preconceived ideas of the player. I prefer 100% competition. Having said that I know the Redskins are going to give Robert every chance to succeed. It doesn't matter any longer how many players were traded to get Griffin. That is a done deal. It isn't a QB battle. We are not going to see Cousins again unless something goes really wrong.

Whoever suggest that calling Griffin "Bob" was a slur was way off base, Bob himself said that was what most people called him before he got the RGIII monicker. I don't know, maybe we return to the days of bumper stickers that now say "I like RGIII" and "I like Capt. Kirk."

We are a little over 24 hours from the start of the season. I hope Gruden has game planned some things for Robert that help him out. That is part of play calling. That is what Kyle Shanahan did for Robert in 2012. Go Skins.

BTW I am a Cousins apologist. In 2012 I hoped the Skins would either draft Tannehill or Cousins. Let me add my disclaimer, I am not a talent scout. I am not saying Cousins should start this week. This has to play out on the field and Robert has to get a chance to show what he can do. If he struggles in his first 6 games then I will support a QB change.

I hope we are all celebrating tomorrow afternoon and this entire conversation becomes moot.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I was a big fan of the Cousins pick too so I'm no hater. But I will never believe that a change is needed after week 6. Again they have too much invested in RGIII. To bail after 36 games, half of which were very good games for Griff, is a panic move, period.

As for "Bob" sure he may have been called that when he was 14 but make no mistake, it's a slur now. The only time I"ve seen it used is proceeding critical comments about Griffin. Find me posts where it was used in a pro-Griffin context and I'll think about reconsidering.