helmet to helmet

[OnlyCrimson]

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Lot of internet badasses on this thread that ended there career in football as freshman in HS. Again defenseless has nothing to do with the penalty. I really wish people would actually know the rules prior to posting.

Internet badass I am not, internet dumbass you are. Go watch flag football and leave real football to the grown ups.

 

[Codaxx]

And that is my point, get rid of the helmet to helmet hits rule as it has been a disaster and not defined clearly enough or able to be policed well enough at those speeds to make it a good rule. Helmet contact will happen even if you lead with your shoulder and in the past it was left up to the Refs to decide if it was unnecessary roughness or not. now if they polish the QB's shoes or tap his helmet as they pass him in the line of play its a penalty. The rules are getting out of control and this will eventually turn off the very viewers who once loved and thrived on this sport every year.

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The thread was not about helmet to helmet flags. It was about the capricious nature in which it is enforced. It is simply a defensive penalty, which defies logic. Apparently, only defensive players can be guilty of the penalty and deemed unsafe. I get the feeling this thread suffers from a complete lack of reading comprehension.

 

[4down20]

there are 2 separate penalties. Hitting with the crown of the helmet and targeting.

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Initiating Contact/Targeting an Oppenent
1. No player shall initiate contact and target an opponent with the crown (top) of his helmet. When in question, it is a foul.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]2. No player shall initiate contact and target a defenseless opponent above the shoulders. When in question, it is a foul.[/FONT]

KEY ELEMENTS
Target—to take aim at an opponent for purposes of attacking with an apparent intent that goes beyond making a legal tackle or a legal block or playing the ball.
Crown of the Helmet—the top portion of the helmet.
Contact to the head or neck area—not only with the helmet, but also with the forearm, fist, elbow, or shoulder—these can all lead to a foul.
Defenseless player—a player not in position to defend himself.
Examples (Rule 2-27-14):

• A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass.
• A receiver attempting to catch a pass, or one who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier.
• A kicker in the act of or just after kicking a ball, or during the kick or the return.
• A kick returner attempting to catch or recover a kick.
• A player on the ground.
• A player obviously out of the play.
• A player who receives a blind-side block.
• A ball carrier already in the grasp of an opponent and whose forward progress has been stopped.
• A quarterback any time after a change of possession.

 

[Codaxx]

KEY ELEMENTS
Target—to take aim at an opponent for purposes of attacking with an apparent intent that goes beyond making a legal tackle or a legal block or playing the ball.
Crown of the Helmet—the top portion of the helmet.
Contact to the head or neck area—not only with the helmet, but also with the forearm, fist, elbow, or shoulder—these can all lead to a foul.
Defenseless player—a player not in position to defend himself.
Examples (Rule 2-27-14):

• A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass.
• A receiver attempting to catch a pass, or one who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier.
• A kicker in the act of or just after kicking a ball, or during the kick or the return.
• A kick returner attempting to catch or recover a kick.
• A player on the ground.
• A player obviously out of the play.
• A player who receives a blind-side block.
• A ball carrier already in the grasp of an opponent and whose forward progress has been stopped.
• A quarterback any time after a change of possession.

quite familiar with the TARGETING penalty.

TARGETING AND CROWN-OF-HELMET GUIDELINES FOR COACHES, PLAYERS AND OFFICIALS

RULES
Targeting and Initiating Contact With the Crown of the Helmet (Rule 9-1-3)
No player shall target and initiate contact against an opponent with the crown (top) of his helmet. When in question, it is a foul.
Targeting and Initiating Contact to Head or Neck Area of a Defenseless Player (Rule 9-1-4)
No player shall target and initiate contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent with the helmet, forearm, fist, elbow or shoulder. When in question, it is a foul. (Rule 2-27-14)
Note: Beginning in 2013, ejection from the game is a part of the penalty for violation of both Rule 9-1-3 and Rule 9-1-4.




Notice Rule 9-1-3 never mentions defenseless player. This is only 3rd time I have posted this. Praying you actually read it this time.

 

[4down20]

quite familiar with the TARGETING penalty.

TARGETING AND CROWN-OF-HELMET GUIDELINES FOR COACHES, PLAYERS AND OFFICIALS

RULES
Targeting and Initiating Contact With the Crown of the Helmet (Rule 9-1-3)
No player shall target and initiate contact against an opponent with the crown (top) of his helmet. When in question, it is a foul.
Targeting and Initiating Contact to Head or Neck Area of a Defenseless Player (Rule 9-1-4)
No player shall target and initiate contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent with the helmet, forearm, fist, elbow or shoulder. When in question, it is a foul. (Rule 2-27-14)
Note: Beginning in 2013, ejection from the game is a part of the penalty for violation of both Rule 9-1-3 and Rule 9-1-4.




Notice Rule 9-1-3 never mentions defenseless player. This is only 3rd time I have posted this. Praying you actually read it this time.

Read the key elements that further define the rule. In 9-1-3 it says "no player shall TARGET"

Target—to take aim at an opponent for purposes of attacking with an apparent intent that goes beyond making a legal tackle or a legal block or playing the ball.

But sure, you are right and every single ref in the game is wrong.

 

[Codaxx]

Read the key elements that further define the rule. In 9-1-3 it says "no player shall TARGET"

Target—to take aim at an opponent for purposes of attacking with an apparent intent that goes beyond making a legal tackle or a legal block or playing the ball.

But sure, you are right and every single ref in the game is wrong.

Awesome logic once again. Refs never miss calls. I should have thought about that. Way to stick with logic.

COLLEGE FOOTBALL OFFICIATING, LLC
TARGETING AND CROWN
-
OF
-
HELMET
OFFICIATING GUIDELINES
RULES
Targeting/Initiating Contact With the Crown of the Helmet
(Rule 9-1-3)
No player shall target and initiate contact against an opponent with
the crown (top) of his helmet. When in question, it is a foul. (Rule 9-6.)
Defenseless Player: Contact to Head or Neck Area (Rule 9-1-4)
No player shall target and initiate contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless
opponent with the helmet, forearm, elbow
or shoulder. When in question, it is a foul
(Rules 2-27-14 and 9-6).
KEY ELEMENTS
Targeting
—
taking aim at an opponent with an apparent intent that goes beyond making a good football play
.
Seems you definition alters from the actual rule book. Not shocking though.

 

[4down20]

Awesome logic once again. Refs never miss calls. I should have thought about that. Way to stick with logic.

COLLEGE FOOTBALL OFFICIATING, LLC
TARGETING AND CROWN
-
OF
-
HELMET
OFFICIATING GUIDELINES
RULES
Targeting/Initiating Contact With the Crown of the Helmet
(Rule 9-1-3)
No player shall target and initiate contact against an opponent with
the crown (top) of his helmet. When in question, it is a foul. (Rule 9-6.)
Defenseless Player: Contact to Head or Neck Area (Rule 9-1-4)
No player shall target and initiate contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless
opponent with the helmet, forearm, elbow
or shoulder. When in question, it is a foul
(Rules 2-27-14 and 9-6).
KEY ELEMENTS
Targeting
—
taking aim at an opponent with an apparent intent that goes beyond making a good football play
.
Seems you definition alters from the actual rule book. Not shocking though.

How does something being more defined make it altered? And how is what I posted and what you posted at odds?

Targeting and Crown-of-Helmet Guidelines

 

[OnlyCrimson]

How does something being more defined make it altered? And how is what I posted and what you posted at odds?

Targeting and Crown-of-Helmet Guidelines

He's just trying to hide from the defenseless player part.

 

[Codaxx]

How does something being more defined make it altered? And how is what I posted and what you posted at odds?

Targeting and Crown-of-Helmet Guidelines

http://www.eaifo2.org/files_pdf/2012_Targeting_Guidelines.pdf

there is a difference between the 2 sites. Defining the action of a crown of the helmet penalty makes no logical sense. On the College Officiating site they leave it broad. On AFCA the define it as tackling or blocking. Meaning hitting with the crown of the head would be legal for any other activity. If you are kickoff coverage and spear someone it would be legal, but not if you did that on Kickoff Return. Not sure why anyone would have a "crown of the helmet" rule and only apply it to a narrow band. NFL recently came out with guideline for runners and tacklers. Vagueness of the CFO document covers all activity and that is pretty much the only logical way to enforce a rule of safety. It would be monumentally ignorant to make a claim that only defenders leading with their helmets are dangerous

 

[Codaxx]

He's just trying to hide from the defenseless player part.

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read prior to posting. The 2 rules have been on this thread several times. If you are having issues reading or with your comprehension, I am sure an Auburn fan would be happy to help you out.

 

[4down20]

http://www.eaifo2.org/files_pdf/2012_Targeting_Guidelines.pdf

there is a difference between the 2 sites. Defining the action of a crown of the helmet penalty makes no logical sense. On the College Officiating site they leave it broad. On AFCA the define it as tackling or blocking. Meaning hitting with the crown of the head would be legal for any other activity. If you are kickoff coverage and spear someone it would be legal, but not if you did that on Kickoff Return. Not sure why anyone would have a "crown of the helmet" rule and only apply it to a narrow band. NFL recently came out with guideline for runners and tacklers. Vagueness of the CFO document covers all activity and that is pretty much the only logical way to enforce a rule of safety. It would be monumentally ignorant to make a claim that only defenders leading with their helmets are dangerous

Both rules start with targeting, and it's the targeting part of the key elements that I'm pointing out.

And again, all the refs seem to disagree with you on how the rule is to be enforced and interpreted. How can you call it a missed call, when it's never once called and happens multiple times a game?

You go further to talk about player safety, yet don't seem to realize that not allowing a RB to lower his head would be even worse for his safety and would render him a defenseless player as a result.

 

[trojanfight]

seems to me that rules description implies that leading with crown helmet as fowler clearly did should be a penalty.

 

[Bandwagonbo2]

Awesome logic once again. Refs never miss calls. I should have thought about that. Way to stick with logic.

COLLEGE FOOTBALL OFFICIATING, LLC
TARGETING AND CROWN
-
OF
-
HELMET
OFFICIATING GUIDELINES
RULES
Targeting/Initiating Contact With the Crown of the Helmet
(Rule 9-1-3)
No player shall target and initiate contact against an opponent with
the crown (top) of his helmet. When in question, it is a foul. (Rule 9-6.)
Defenseless Player: Contact to Head or Neck Area (Rule 9-1-4)
No player shall target and initiate contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless
opponent with the helmet, forearm, elbow
or shoulder. When in question, it is a foul
(Rules 2-27-14 and 9-6).
KEY ELEMENTS
Targeting
—
taking aim at an opponent with an apparent intent that goes beyond making a good football play
.
Seems you definition alters from the actual rule book. Not shocking though.

Definition of illogical in this case is you seeing every ref as being wrong and that was the point of the previous post you commented on. Every ref is not wrong and thus renders your argument illogical.

 

[OnlyCrimson]

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read prior to posting. The 2 rules have been on this thread several times. If you are having issues reading or with your comprehension, I am sure an Auburn fan would be happy to help you out.

Awe how cute, I'm glad you could put that 3rd grade education and comeback to work.

 

[Codaxx]

Both rules start with targeting, and it's the targeting part of the key elements that I'm pointing out.

And again, all the refs seem to disagree with you on how the rule is to be enforced and interpreted. How can you call it a missed call, when it's never once called and happens multiple times a game?

You go further to talk about player safety, yet don't seem to realize that not allowing a RB to lower his head would be even worse for his safety and would render him a defenseless player as a result.- One of the dumbest things i have ever seen on the internet.

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Very similar to aiding a runner. That is never called, but it is clearly in the rule book. According to your logic it is not, but carry on. This has grown tiresome. Basically, non-Bama fans can understand the argument. Bama fans are so enraged at the idea a Bama player could do wrong, that logic has been suspended. Pretty typical thread at SportsHoopla to be honest.

 

[GoldRusher]

This rule (while stupid) was put in place to change the style of play of the defensive players, avoid lawsuits and its working, knees all over the game are paying for it. IMO the rule will begin to be tweaked this offseason and gradually be dumbed down to where there will be a lot more common sense in it but the point will have been made and the style of the game will be forever changed unless there is advancement in the equipment that protects the head and neck area and prevents concussions. That sadly seems to be a long way off.

 

[4down20]

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Very similar to aiding a runner. That is never called, but it is clearly in the rule book. According to your logic it is not, but carry on. This has grown tiresome. Basically, non-Bama fans can understand the argument. Bama fans are so enraged at the idea a Bama player could do wrong, that logic has been suspended. Pretty typical thread at SportsHoopla to be honest.

Has nothing to do with what team the player plays on.

And as for it getting called. They are completely going overboard and if there is any question at all they call the foul, and yet it's never once been called on a RB all year?

Bullshit.

 

[GoldRusher]

Has nothing to do with what team the player plays on.

And as for it getting called. They are completely going overboard and if there is any question at all they call the foul, and yet it's never once been called on a RB all year?

Bullshit.

We had it called on an offensive lineman, and he got ejected, in the 4th quarter

 

[4down20]

We had it called on an offensive lineman, and he got ejected, in the 4th quarter

What was he doing?

If he earholed someone on a block, I can see it. That's a personal foul even without the ejection.