Has Seattle Jumped the Shark?

[Uhsplit]

He had the money to make everything happen without bilking the taxpayers of Seattle, simple as that. He didn't need any damn financial commitment from Seattle, but you suckers fell for it.

Of course the bandwagon fans like you, uhsplit tail will defend him til the cows come home because of one lucky (lucky you got to play PM) SB win.

I ain't bitchin BTW, just pointing out the obvious.

And I do give him credit for installing a top of the line sound amplification system.

Yep, you are daft as fuck.
Carry on sir.

 

[Uhsplit]

I agree, I wonder how many bandwagon fans the Pats or the Cards have?

On the Hoop, what matters is Seahawk band wagon fans. Other teams fans do not count.

 

[Duffman]

"Jumping the shark"

 

[Rockinkuwait]

You make some good points but what does "considerable drop off mean"? Like in 3 to 4 yrs or 8-10 yrs?
I love Lynch, but Rawls filled in nicely. Over 800 yds in 7 games behind a shit o-line is pretty damn good, so of course it remains to be seen but I think we'll be fine. Losing Irvin hurts but we still have Wags and Wright who aren't slouches. I won't say the Jimmy Graham trade was a huge mistake (yet) since him and Wilson were finally showing signs of life the last 3 games before Graham went down. Our o-line wasn't mediocre, it was down right horrid. This years draft is huge to replenish what we have lost but I still believe the team will be in the SB contenders talk for some years to come. Arizona will have its hands full on trying to repeat as NFCW Champs.

That's a pretty optimistic view, just checking here, in that time, Graham averaged 3 catches, 52 yards 0 TD's and Wilson completed only 53% of his throws his way (lower than the previous games that year in YPG, Catches, comp rate, YPA his way, and TD's). So Wilson's completion percentage his way was about 15% lower than throwing to his other targets. He also failed to connect with Graham on a 2pt conversion and Graham had 2 offensive holding calls in those games. Baldwin was really the guy blowing up then. I agree it isn't over, and give it an off-season of working together and see this year, but the direction it was going last year and even towards the end last year wasn't a good one.

 

[jakedog56]

That's a pretty optimistic view, just checking here, in that time, Graham averaged 3 catches, 52 yards 0 TD's and Wilson completed only 53% of his throws his way (lower than the previous games that year in YPG, Catches, comp rate, YPA his way, and TD's). So Wilson's completion percentage his way was about 15% lower than throwing to his other targets. He also failed to connect with Graham on a 2pt conversion and Graham had 2 offensive holding calls in those games. Baldwin was really the guy blowing up then. I agree it isn't over, and give it an off-season of working together and see this year, but the direction it was going last year and even towards the end last year wasn't a good one.

Your math is off. Graham averaged 4.3 catchs, not 3 per game. His ypg was basically same as the pervious year and his ypc was actually up.

He definately had a down year stats-wise by comparision to previous years, but this was somewhat expected going from NO to a new system that was based on the run. He did struggle early on but the last 3-4 games before the injury he was coming on strong.

Even in a "down" year (for him) he was still on schedule for a 70 catch, 900 yard season over 16 games. It was the lack of TDs that was the only real big disappointment (other than the injury of course.).

Whether he can come back from the injury and produce at a high level is the question. Wait and see on that one.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Your math is off. Graham averaged 4.3 catchs, not 3 per game. His ypg was basically same as the pervious year and his ypc was actually up.

He definately had a down year stats-wise by comparision to previous years, but this was somewhat expected going from NO to a new system that was based on the run. He did struggle early on but the last 3-4 games before the injury he was coming on strong.

Even in a "down" year (for him) he was still on schedule for a 70 catch, 900 yard season over 16 games. It was the lack of TDs that was the only real big disappointment (other than the injury of course.).

Whether he can come back from the injury and produce at a high level is the question. Wait and see on that one.

You are looking at him for the season. His last 3 games he had 3, 3, and 4 catches. I was just saying the numbers don't stand up to the comment that he was "coming on the last three games". His YPG were almost the same as the previous year, but it still was 55 a game, when it was 70 a game as a starter in his time in NO. Of course I think a lot of that can be attributed to the pass oriented offense in NO which has more volume. I would say he didn't look bad in the pass game outside of the red zone, but it seemed he was being found inconsistently and like I said before him and Wilson didn't work out well in the red zone together ( 3 catches, 1 TD, Wilson averaged 1.0 yards per attempt throwing his way in the red zone vs. 4.6 to everyone else there).

 

[jakedog56]

"coming on the last three games" = Not sure why you quoted it because I never said that. I said 3-4 games, and he did have 7 in the game before that, but I see what you are getting at.

He is 30 now and coming off a major injury which could really affect his style of play. His future is questionable in my opinion. I hope he can come back and contribute at a high level but I am not counting on it.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

"coming on the last three games" = Not sure why you quoted it because I never said that. I said 3-4 games, and he did have 7 in the game before that, but I see what you are getting at.

He is 30 now and coming off a major injury which could really affect his style of play. His future is questionable in my opinion. I hope he can come back and contribute at a high level but I am not counting on it.

Ok, sorry I saw "him and Wilson were finally showing signs of life the last 3 games before Graham went down" and thought that didn't include the 4th game.

 

[jakedog56]

Ok, sorry I saw "him and Wilson were finally showing signs of life the last 3 games before Graham went down" and thought that didn't include the 4th game.

No problem. Your point is still valid.

I would love to see a 70 catch, 800 ypg TE for the Seahawks. Those kind of numbers would indicate a leap in productivity we haven't seen on the team in years. But the TD production was not good (or red zone production if you prefer) and, as previously stated, a now 30 year old who relies upon athleticism coming off of a major leg injury is reason for skepticism.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

No problem. Your point is still valid.

I would love to see a 70 catch, 800 ypg TE for the Seahawks. Those kind of numbers would indicate a leap in productivity we haven't seen on the team in years. But the TD production was not good (or red zone production if you prefer) and, as previously stated, a now 30 year old who relies upon athleticism coming off of a major leg injury is reason for skepticism.

Yup, I'd fully agree with that assesment. The positive outlook is he'll be in camp and can work on that red zone stuff which is the hardest area when the field is shorter and so much is on familiarity (I guess I don't need to mention how tough throwing to slot/TE's at the goal line can be at times), and that he is a freak of nature, and a late NFL arrival, who is younger in games than his years show (still hasn't played 100 games yet), and hey, Gates had all those foot injuries at 30, which was 6 years ago.... 6 years of 700 yard 7 TD seasons (and really really poor blocking lol)

 

[JMR]

It's way premature to say the Graham trade was a bust. He was the team's leading receiver going into the game he got hurt, and he played entirely when the offense was bogged down buy a turnstile OL. It's nuts to think he wouldn't have been putting up much bigger numbers the 2nd half of the year when the blocking improved quite a bit, so we'll see what it looks like this year if/when he comes back healthy enough to be himself. Not a guarantee he will, but ridiculous to say the trade is a failure already.

 

[WizardHawk]

Seattle was forced to lean on the passing game with all of the RB injuries they had and actually discovered they weren't bad at a heavier passing game. Add in Lockett and his development and get a reasonably healthy Graham back combined with Lynch's retirement and JG might be used more like he should have been. IF that happens, then it is too early to call his trade a bust, but he has to come back healthy (no guarantee with that injury) AND Carroll/Bevell have to balance toward the pass a bit more this year in order to see the benefit.

As for the shitty ass line, you don't have to tell us about it. Fully aware of it. They are going to have to work on the quick routes and get the ball out a lot faster and really lean on that fast passing game if they don't find a way to get 5 reasonable guys on that line (Which they likely won't). Cable is supposed to be this guru, well it's time for him to put up or GTFO. They red shirted a couple of young guys and probably will draft at least one or two more this year. If they can't at least reach last years level he needs to go. Big time.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

That's a pretty optimistic view, just checking here, in that time, Graham averaged 3 catches, 52 yards 0 TD's and Wilson completed only 53% of his throws his way (lower than the previous games that year in YPG, Catches, comp rate, YPA his way, and TD's). So Wilson's completion percentage his way was about 15% lower than throwing to his other targets. He also failed to connect with Graham on a 2pt conversion and Graham had 2 offensive holding calls in those games. Baldwin was really the guy blowing up then. I agree it isn't over, and give it an off-season of working together and see this year, but the direction it was going last year and even towards the end last year wasn't a good one.

The two weren't on the same page and seemed like the football was being forced fed to Graham instead of letting it happen naturally. It didn't look good at all in the beginning, but as the year moved on before his injury things started to click. I do think these two will be on the same page once Graham gets back on the field from his injury. Of course that's a "Big If" he can fully recover from his injury. Baldwin was a beast last season and I hope that play can carry over into this upcoming season.

 

[Breed]

Those are fair points. Maybe they become more of a balanced, passing offense. But...I doubt that works for them.

Why not? You don't think Wilson has the goods?

 

[wazzu31]

Commitment for what?

He owned the team, the land and all the chips in the game. Just build the damn stadium, put together a solid team and everything else takes care of itself. Milking the taxpayers (many of whom couldn't give a damn about football) when he was siting on enough money to build the facility a hundred times over was lame.

He wanted a commitment from politicians since they royally screwed over the Sonics by giving the land that Safeco Field stands on to the Mariners. Neither Mariners or Seahawks ownership group should've had to pay a dime for their respective stadiums with how little taxpayers actually paid. Safeco Field was paid off before the Kingdom was all because of the taxes that other teams fans, politicians and mega events that were held the. Which is exactly the opposite Clay Bennett wanted, he wanted to r*pe the taxpayer by not using a cent of the existing tax to fully finance his palace.

 

[Iggloo]

Why not? You don't think Wilson has the goods?

Honestly no. I think Wilson is a very smart guy and good field general but a limited passer. Good enough to win big, obviously, but not if he has to carry offenses with his throwing.

 

[SonnyCID]

Honestly no. I think Wilson is a very smart guy and good field general but a limited passer. Good enough to win big, obviously, but not if he has to carry offenses with his throwing.

What exactly is limited about his passing? Arm strength? Accuracy? Decision making?

 

[flyerhawk]

Honestly no. I think Wilson is a very smart guy and good field general but a limited passer. Good enough to win big, obviously, but not if he has to carry offenses with his throwing.

I find this argument truly baffling.

Statistically this is a very difficult argument to make.

What is your evidence that he can't carry the team when needed?

 

[JMR]

Honestly no. I think Wilson is a very smart guy and good field general but a limited passer. Good enough to win big, obviously, but not if he has to carry offenses with his throwing.

So describe what was happening on the offensive side of the ball the last 8 games of the season for Seattle.

 

[Breed]

Honestly no. I think Wilson is a very smart guy and good field general but a limited passer. Good enough to win big, obviously, but not if he has to carry offenses with his throwing.

Not to jump on the Jump On Iggs bandwagon, but what more do you think you need to see? Some of his stats dipped in year 3, TD passes, comp %, YPA, QB rating, but they were still decent. And he rebounded very nicely in year 4, especially with that historic 4 or 5 week stretch he had, to put the best passing #s all across the board of his career. He's increased the # of times he passes every year as well. Are there some throws you think he can't make? Or doesn't make consistently enough? If so I'm not seeing that.

And Yeah, he's had a good to damn good rushing attack for his 4 years, but he's a significant equation in said rushing attack also.

I have a homeboy, he's a Hawks fan, and he's not quite convinced either. He really didn't have a definitive reason as to why he's not convinced so I gave him out. Saying the only thing Wilson really hasn't done is put up 600 or more passing attempts in a season. Is that or something similar what you're looking for out of Wilson?