Has Lebron passed Kobe on the all time list?

[trojanfan12]

But if the question was the clock is winding down - who do you want with the ball in their hands? Kobe is out of the conversation and LeBron is right up there with Jordan, imo.

The stat you quoted seems to say the opposite.

I agree with @TJL if it's a shot with the clock winding down...I want Kobe. As I've said before, he's an assassin.

If it's taking over the last minute or 2 of the game...I want Lebron. He's going to give me a better mix of getting the ball to the right guy and taking the shots himself.

If MJ is in the conversation...I'm taking him over both Kobe and Lebron.

 

[gordontrue]

You do realise only a small percentage (mainly the lebron ball-huggers) would have lebron take the final shot. Hard for you to grasp, but facts prove it. Include championships if you like.

I just agreed with that. In terms of "taking" the last shot, I would also have Kobe in front of LeBron. The facts actually *don't* really support this, but I think there is an explanation.

The reason LeBron is a much more efficient last-shot-taker than Kobe is because he is more selective. If he is well-covered, he's likely to hit an open teammate, rather than force the shot. Kobe on the other hand... is taking the fucking shot.

Thats why I say if I need someone to "take" a last shot - I'll take Kobe over LeBron. He is the better shooter and I know he'll never shrink from the moment.

If I need someone to have the ball in their hands and get our team a bucket - I'll take LeBron. He is going to put pressure on the defense and make the correct read. Whether he takes the shot himself or dishes to a teammate, I'm confident it will be the correct choice based on what the defense does.

Jordan is actually a combo of those 2 things, which is part of what makes him the goat of the last second shot situation.

 

[gordontrue]

The stat you quoted seems to say the opposite.

I agree with @TJL if it's a shot with the clock winding down...I want Kobe. As I've said before, he's an assassin.

If it's taking over the last minute or 2 of the game...I want Lebron. He's going to give me a better mix of getting the ball to the right guy and taking the shots himself.

If MJ is in the conversation...I'm taking him over both Kobe and Lebron.

I'm comparing "take" the shot vs "create" the shot. See my post above. I think we pretty much agree.

 

[TJL]

The stat you quoted seems to say the opposite.

I agree with @TJL if it's a shot with the clock winding down...I want Kobe. As I've said before, he's an assassin.

If it's taking over the last minute or 2 of the game...I want Lebron. He's going to give me a better mix of getting the ball to the right guy and taking the shots himself.

If MJ is in the conversation...I'm taking him over both Kobe and Lebron.

I don't care about this anymore, I just went and ate lunch, and now I'm going to take a nap at my desk.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

I don't care about this anymore, I just went and ate lunch, and now I'm going to take a nap at my desk.

Have you finished with all your photoshopping for the day?

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

I'm comparing "take" the shot vs "create" the shot. See my post above. I think we pretty much agree.

Clutch means taking the shot. If we went with "create the shot", Magic would be on top of the list.

 

[TJL]

Have you finished with all your photoshopping for the day?

I unfortunately don't know how to photoshop

 

[trojanfan12]

I'm comparing "take" the shot vs "create" the shot. See my post above. I think we pretty much agree.

I saw it and we do.

One thing that I see differently is this:

If I need someone to have the ball in their hands and get our team a bucket - I'll take LeBron. He is going to put pressure on the defense and make the correct read. Whether he takes the shot himself or dishes to a teammate, I'm confident it will be the correct choice based on what the defense does.

I think that there are times where the correct basketball play/hitting the open guy isn't necessarily the right play even vs. shooting against a double team.

I remember debating Heat fans about this when Lebron was in Miami. I forget the series, but there was a game that came down to the last shot and Lebron passed to Udonis Haslem for an open 15 footer rather than shoot it himself. If memory serves, Haslem missed.

Heat fans contended that it was the "correct basketball play" which for about the first 47 minutes of the game...it would be.

However, in that situation, Lebron as the teams superstar should have taken the shot because it was the correct "superstar play" and what he's being paid for. He was basically giving up the shot to a guy who isn't used to having to come through in those situations. Plus, while Haslem was a decent shooter from that range, that's not really a shot he took a lot.

That's also not to say that MJ or Kobe never passed in those situations. But when they did it, it was to guys who, to some extent are used to taking that type of shot and only when those guys were wide open.

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't care about this anymore, I just went and ate lunch, and now I'm going to take a nap at my desk.

9:30 in the morning here. I probably better get busy doing something productive. lol

Although, going back to sleep sounds good too. Don't want my staff finding me sleeping in a puddle of my own drool though.

 

[The Derski]

Yes.

 

[Black Adam]

in ring count...?

i kid, i kid...

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

NBA Power Rankings: The 50 Most Clutch Players of All Time

Ranking 70 Most Clutch Players in NBA History | Orlando Magic

Top 15 Most Clutch Players in NBA History - Trending Top Lists

Top 7 Clutch Players in NBA History

Most Clutch Players in NBA History - Top Ten List - TheTopTens®

Top 15 Most Clutch Players in NBA History

20 NBA Players You Would Want to Take the Last ShotKobe Bryant

The 10 Best Clutch Performers in NBA History

True or false - Kobe is ranked higher than lebron in every single one of these lists

 

[gordontrue]

NBA Power Rankings: The 50 Most Clutch Players of All Time

Ranking 70 Most Clutch Players in NBA History | Orlando Magic

Top 15 Most Clutch Players in NBA History - Trending Top Lists

Top 7 Clutch Players in NBA History

Most Clutch Players in NBA History - Top Ten List - TheTopTens®

Top 15 Most Clutch Players in NBA History

20 NBA Players You Would Want to Take the Last ShotKobe Bryant

The 10 Best Clutch Performers in NBA History

True or false - Kobe is ranked higher than lebron in every single one of these lists

I don't think anyone would argue with what the general narrative and consensus is ---- especially if we're talking about 4-6 years ago when most of these lists were constructed.

But the fact is that the stats just don't support the narrative. At least not in the playoffs. Maybe its because LeBron is more selective and more likely to pass rather than attempt a tough shot. Maybe its because LeBron had become a polarzing figure at the time when his clutch performace was at its worst and those moments of failure are embedded in people's mind. Maybe the sample size just isn't enough to tell the truth. Or maybe the general consensus is wrong.

Likely a combination of all of those things.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I just agreed with that. In terms of "taking" the last shot, I would also have Kobe in front of LeBron. The facts actually *don't* really support this, but I think there is an explanation.

The reason LeBron is a much more efficient last-shot-taker than Kobe is because he is more selective. If he is well-covered, he's likely to hit an open teammate, rather than force the shot. Kobe on the other hand... is taking the fucking shot.

Thats why I say if I need someone to "take" a last shot - I'll take Kobe over LeBron. He is the better shooter and I know he'll never shrink from the moment.

If I need someone to have the ball in their hands and get our team a bucket - I'll take LeBron. He is going to put pressure on the defense and make the correct read. Whether he takes the shot himself or dishes to a teammate, I'm confident it will be the correct choice based on what the defense does.

Jordan is actually a combo of those 2 things, which is part of what makes him the goat of the last second shot situation.

agreed

bottom line

down 1 with 10 seconds left- I want the ball in LeBron's hands.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

agreed

bottom line

down 1 with 10 seconds left- I want the ball in LeBron's hands.

Nobody gives a fuck wiggy

 

[gordontrue]

I saw it and we do.

One thing that I see differently is this:



I think that there are times where the correct basketball play/hitting the open guy isn't necessarily the right play even vs. shooting against a double team.

I remember debating Heat fans about this when Lebron was in Miami. I forget the series, but there was a game that came down to the last shot and Lebron passed to Udonis Haslem for an open 15 footer rather than shoot it himself. If memory serves, Haslem missed.

Heat fans contended that it was the "correct basketball play" which for about the first 47 minutes of the game...it would be.

However, in that situation, Lebron as the teams superstar should have taken the shot because it was the correct "superstar play" and what he's being paid for. He was basically giving up the shot to a guy who isn't used to having to come through in those situations. Plus, while Haslem was a decent shooter from that range, that's not really a shot he took a lot.

That's also not to say that MJ or Kobe never passed in those situations. But when they did it, it was to guys who, to some extent are used to taking that type of shot and only when those guys were wide open.

Yeah, I think I just disagree.

Kerr was a virtual nobody when MJ dished to him for the mid-ranger jumper. Paxson was a solid veteran but someone who would hardly be mentioned these days if not for Jordan kicking it out to him.

I mean, if you're dishing it to someone way out of their element, like dishing it to TT for a jumper, or dishing it to Dhantay Jones for 3, or lobbing it into Shump on the post... I agree.

But the percentages of Kerr or Paxson or Haslem taking an open shot in their element is better than even the best players in the world taking contested shots over a double-team. The results don't always play out the way, but that's the beauty of sports.

 

[TJL]

Nobody gives a fuck wiggy

I actually find his posting about basketball a lot more insightful than yours, so I give a fuck, tbh.

That actually goes for every poster on here except for the guy with the D Rose av that keeps making shit threads like this, you are in the same tier as him, the shit tier.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

I actually find his posting about basketball a lot more insightful than yours, so I give a fuck, tbh.

That actually goes for every poster on here except for the guy with the D Rose av that keeps making shit threads like this, you are in the same tier as him, the shit tier.

Lebron nut huggers unite. Why doesn't that surprise me?

Now get back to work, bitch.

 

[TJL]

Lebron nut huggers unite. Why doesn't that surprise me?

Now get back to work, bitch.

I've been working, and I'm not a LeBron nuthugger, you're just a delusional hater.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

I've been working, and I'm not a LeBron nuthugger, you're just a delusional hater.

Of course you're not, Employee of the Month